View other .uk feedback

[Stephen]

Nominet have stated that although they will publish the feedback from the current .uk proposal (if the client elects to allow it),
it will not be published until after the decision has been made in November several months after the close of 23rd September 2013.

This will not allow much time to review and analysis the feedback data,
if an appeal of any sort is going to be made against the Nominet decision, whatever it may be.

Anybody any ideas of where people who have completed the consultation feedback could post it online, and so it could be viewed by others in an easy to read format?

 

[Stephen]

One view from Alex

Here is a response to the current .uk consultation that has been made public by Alex Bligh and is very well done and is an extremely interesting read.

http://blog.alex.org.uk/2013/08/25/net-into-dire-muck-an-anagram-of-nominet-direct-uk/

The start of it reads;

In general, no persuasive case has been made to open up second level domain registrations at all, and the less than persuasive case that has been put fails to adequately weigh the perceived advantages of opening up second level domain registrations against the damage caused to existing registrants. In simple terms, the collateral damage outweighs the benefits.

Alex Bligh - cofounded and was, until May 2007, a Non-Executive Director of Nominet UK and a member of its policy advisory board (PAB).

 

[Retired_Member38]

At this point there will be more damage done by not launching .uk. They can't undo the v1 and v2 proposals so even if the full idea goes away for now we'll all be wondering if or when it will come back.

Look at the situation with domain sales right now - does anyone really want to be stuck in this state permanently? Quit.co.uk predated by the .org.uk... people saying its a 5 figure domain yet only bid to £2500. I was looking at Monaco.co.uk and thought thats a nice one to develop. Would have happily paid 5 figures for it, realised it was predated. So bought the .org.uk for £500 instead.

And if .uk goes away for now you couldn't even confidently spend a lot of money only buying domains that predate the others - who's to say they won't use some other method of distributing them if they launch it later?

For me, I think the collateral damage of NOT launching .uk is going to be significantly worse than launching it and getting it over with (however they decide to do it)

 

[Edwin]

At this point there will be more damage done by not launching .uk. They can't undo the v1 and v2 proposals so even if the full idea goes away for now we'll all be wondering if or when it will come back.

Look at the situation with domain sales right now - does anyone really want to be stuck in this state permanently? Quit.co.uk predated by the .org.uk... people saying its a 5 figure domain yet only bid to £2500. I was looking at Monaco.co.uk and thought thats a nice one to develop. Would have happily paid 5 figures for it, realised it was predated. So bought the .org.uk for £500 instead.

And if .uk goes away for now you couldn't even confidently spend a lot of money only buying domains that predate the others - who's to say they won't use some other method of distributing them if they launch it later?

For me, I think the collateral damage of NOT launching .uk is going to be significantly worse than launching it and getting it over with (however they decide to do it)

Good summary, I think.

Unless Nominet are willing to go out on a limb publicly and state in extremely unequivocal language that there will be no future attempts to re-launch a .uk plan, then the uncertainty you're predicting is guaranteed. And given what we all know of Nominet, pigs will fly first.

 

[Lucien Taylor]

At this point there will be more damage done by not launching .uk. They can't undo the v1 and v2 proposals so even if the full idea goes away for now we'll all be wondering if or when it will come back.

Look at the situation with domain sales right now - does anyone really want to be stuck in this state permanently? Quit.co.uk predated by the .org.uk... people saying its a 5 figure domain yet only bid to £2500. I was looking at Monaco.co.uk and thought thats a nice one to develop. Would have happily paid 5 figures for it, realised it was predated. So bought the .org.uk for £500 instead.

And if .uk goes away for now you couldn't even confidently spend a lot of money only buying domains that predate the others - who's to say they won't use some other method of distributing them if they launch it later?

For me, I think the collateral damage of NOT launching .uk is going to be significantly worse than launching it and getting it over with (however they decide to do it)

No. I agree that the damage will be bad [for them] if they do not launch now that they have put so much at stake, and sent such damaging uncertainty into the market. However, the damage will be even worse if they proceed without a proper consultation, and I'm sorry in order to achieve that they need to rip it up and start again. If the top 10 registrars can get away with this proposal-over-dinner, what next?

 

[Stephen]

I disagree

Good summary, I think.

Unless Nominet are willing to go out on a limb publicly and state in extremely unequivocal language that there will be no future attempts to re-launch a .uk plan, then the uncertainty you're predicting is guaranteed. And given what we all know of Nominet, pigs will fly first.

I disagree, a few years of uncertainty is better than the rest of your life regretting that .uk was introduced incorrectly or at all as some see it.

The prices, reduced sales volumes and problems that the .co.uk is facing is effected slightly by the .uk proposal
and the resultant lack of appetite from domain investors.

However there are lots of other reasons such as SEO changes, EMD, parked page results, affiliates scheme changes
and the outside world is not in expanse stage and so doesn't need lots of new websites with great names.
These are the real things that are driving demand and prices down.

The new ICANN gTLD's may also have an effect later on values and especially niche ones
like UK domains including the word London with .London coming soon.

If enough feedback comes this time, then it will be very hard to introduce .uk later.
Although agree we will not see a promise not to try and even if they did I would not believe it.
We would have to fight that battle if it ever came.

If .uk does get through as is you will see .com.uk and .info.uk and .net.uk and lots more as money making scheme
to keep Nominet relevant as Nominet will feel unstoppable, if people don't make a stand now!

I will continue to do my best to bring the .uk to as many people as I can.

I note your website has not been adjusted for the new .uk proposal does this now mean it is better not to fight .uk,
as if you win and no .uk, that is now a worse scenario, so best not to try?
as that what you appear to be agreeing to? (contrary to your recent stance at the round table meetings)

 

[julian]

@Stephen here you said "I would like .uk to go ahead (have always wanted it) with an alternative proposal of 100% linking .co.uk and .uk ownership"

So in a nutshell - because I am bit retarded when it comes to understanding and following endless new threads, the main issue you/Stephen et al have with Nom V.2 - is the above? How many domains are you losing - are they the most valuable or something?

@Mr. Taylor if you don't mind me asking I just wondered why you have such a personal, vested interest in all this - are you holding a huge portfolio of prime domains that could be lost, or is it just a good bit of publicity for your services regardless of the outcome - why do you care so much?

Thanks.

No. I agree that the damage will be bad [for them] if they do not launch now that they have put so much at stake, and sent such damaging uncertainty into the market. However, the damage will be even worse if they proceed without a proper consultation, and I'm sorry in order to achieve that they need to rip it up and start again. If the top 10 registrars can get away with this proposal-over-dinner, what next?

 

[Stephen]

my agenda again

@Stephen here you said "I would like .uk to go ahead (have always wanted it) with an alternative proposal of 100% linking .co.uk and .uk ownership"

So in a nutshell - because I am bit retarded when it comes to understanding and following endless new threads, the main issue you/Stephen et al have with Nom V.2 - is the above? How many domains are you losing - are they the most valuable or something?

Thanks.

No, I simply I believe that .uk V2 is wrong as is would create too much collateral damage.

I have started before 90+% of my .co.uk are the oldest and I will not loose out under the new proposal.

I will not be losing any valuable .co.uk domains at all, quite the opposite I have a few .org.uk and even .me.uk that would obtain prime .uk if it went ahead as is.

I believe Nominet as guardian of the UK namespace are doing a bad job with .uk and would like to see a healthier debate about it can be improved.
If the UK namespace improved, yes, indirectly it would benefit me but that is not the reason I have devoted so much time to this.

As an accountant and business person I would have looked at any activist who appears to be putting themselves out as misguided or as you seem to think in for themselves.
Its not until you feel that you have knowledge of a subject like UK domains and lots of hard working others who do not are going to suffer by the actions of an autonomous organization like Nominet, with its own agenda, that you just act for what you think is right.

I only have to read articles like http://blog.alex.org.uk/2013/08/25/net-into-dire-muck-an-anagram-of-nominet-direct-uk/ to know that it is worth fighting on.

I would really like to focus on the issues of .uk and how to get the matter to the attention of more people.

 

[julian]

What is 'too much collateral damage', sounds very serious can you just summarise it so I can understand what the big issue is..

- is it mainly based on the 100% linking .co.uk and .uk ownership thing, which is what you want to see?

I'm not attacking you, just trying to understand exactly what has you so upset.

Thanks.

I believe that .uk V2 is wrong as is would create too much collateral damage.

I will not be losing any valuable .co.uk domains at all, quite the opposite I have a few .org.uk and even .me.uk that would obtain prime .uk if it went ahead as is.

I believe Nominet as guardian of the UK namespace are doing a bad job with .uk and would like to see a healthier debate about it can be improved.
If the UK namespace improved, yes, indirectly it would benefit me but that is not the reason I have devoted so much time to this.

As an accountant and business person I would have looked at any activist who appears to be putting themselves out as misguided or as you seem to think in for themselves.
Its not until you feel that you have knowledge of a subject like UK domains and lots of hard working others who do not are going to suffer by the actions of an autonomous organization like Nominet, with its own agenda, that you just act for what you think is right.

I would really like to focus on the issues of .uk and how to get the matter to the attention of more people.

 

[Stephen]

please read the report

What is 'too much collateral damage', sounds very serious can you just summarise it so I can understand what the big issue is..

- is it mainly based on the 100% linking .co.uk and .uk ownership thing, which is what you want to see?

I'm not attacking you, just trying to understand exactly what has you so upset.

Thanks.

Rather than making this a very long answer and I'm not trying to evade the questions but you are mixing up a solution and a problem.

For the problems of the current .uk proposal I would direct you to read the report I have produced "get involved or lose your .uk domains" which can be downloaded at http://www.youruk.org.uk/ from the download now button on the home page.

For my alternative solution of 100% linking .co.uk and .uk it is covered in the report on page 16, I believe that this would not create the same problems as the proposed solution now being consulted on.

I hope that clarifies the situation for you.

Regarding being upset, I simply suffer from empathy for others.

 

[Stephen]

extra website section

Nominet have stated that although they will publish the feedback from the current .uk proposal (if the client elects to allow it),
it will not be published until after the decision has been made in November several months after the close of 23rd September 2013.

This will not allow much time to review and analysis the feedback data,
if an appeal of any sort is going to be made against the Nominet decision, whatever it may be.

Anybody any ideas of where people who have completed the consultation feedback could post it online, and so it could be viewed by others in an easy to read format?

Back to the point of this thread.

If there is sufficient ".uk consultation feedback posted" I will add an extra section to youruk.org.uk to display such posted feedback.

Any feedback will be displayed in full as provided, whether it is for .uk, against .uk or an alternative proposal.

 

[Lucien Taylor]

@Mr. Taylor if you don't mind me asking I just wondered why you have such a personal, vested interest in all this - are you holding a huge portfolio of prime domains that could be lost, or is it just a good bit of publicity for your services regardless of the outcome - why do you care so much?

Thanks.

I don't mind you asking at all. I care passionately about the governance of the .UK and Nominet in general. I have been associated with the company since the dark ages when it was still on Dalton Barracks. My company took on Willie Black, ex. CEO as a consultant after his sudden departure from Nominet. My uncle fought in the Battle of Britain, and we are watching a valuable British asset being captured by non-UK registrars. I designed the DRS technical system, the PRSS, and my consultants worked there for years. I do not like close relationships between small companies and the government. I do not like monopolies, cronyism, and favours for friends. I support the domainer community like any other small businesses. I have no current vested interest in these matters, I may have in time through the development of the DOMAIN MARQ brand protection system - but early days. There are also other potential domain related business investments on the horizon, but nothing that wouldn't benefit by the .UK proposal however it is rolled out. I am supportive of business innovation, but not through rotten consultation, and improper business.

I don't think I have generated a single bit of business for myself or my company by joining in the discussion on this forums - I have no illusions about that!

 

[Lucien Taylor]

This is a very serious allegation and I'd be very interested in seeing the proof because it would be a game changer for me.

It's not a serious allegation at all! - it's not at that stage, I need more information. Andrew Bennett and I have put this to Nominet many times on the forum with no answer, so my point is a challenge for further explanation at this stage. Nominet arranged two much publicised dinners shortly before the last two AGMs. Nominet mentioned a presentation by Nominet to the top members at one of those meetings, but they have refused to provide details or to share with the rest of the membership. One can only assume that is was about direct.uk, and the change of registrar agreement. I have evidence that one of the large registrars flew over to discuss the direct.uk proposal with Nominet, and particularly their concerns about the impact of the security promises in the V1 consultation and that Nominet seems to be encroaching on the downstream certification market. My contact stated that they felt that the direct.uk proposal was presented to them as a 'done deal'. Needless to say, this is contrary to the statement by Dickie Armour at the AGM who reassured the membership that there had been no discussions with the top registrars about the direct.uk proposals. So, we don't know!

One of the top members, who I know well, stated that they were not going to vote at the AGM, and we have just recently discovered on this forum evidence to prove that they did. I was unable to gain any communication with any of the top members prior to the AGM, and one them who declined to talk wrote to say that they had 'received a fair bit of incoming this time'. They all seemed to vote in complete lock-step against the trend of the wider membership. I would love to discuss this further with any of them, and Nominet have not gone to any pains to reassure the membership otherwise.

 

[Lucien Taylor]

What a weird thing to say. I didn't need to say any of it for my own sake, it was your question that I was attempting to answer. I gave you the facts and evidence that I have which you asked for and admitted the things that I didn't know. I'm baffled by your response.

 

[Edwin]

Lucien, when you say "evidence", are you talking about the kind of thing that could be taken to a court if need be. In other words, is there a direct.uk smoking gun?

 

[GreyWing]

I read a lot of banal facts that you're attempting to spin into a conspiracy.

lol Sean, seriously fella if any of you knew what Lucien and I actually knew and didn't publish then I think that maybe you'd be a little more respectful to people. Although on the face of it without any such evidence you seem to be wanting to spin a conspiracy out of an imagined conspiracy which makes you just as bad as you think others are, but with a little touch of hypocrisy on top.

 

[GreyWing]

Lucien, when you say "evidence", are you talking about the kind of thing that could be taken to a court if need be. In other words, is there a direct.uk smoking gun?

Lucien said...

"I have evidence that one of the large registrars flew over to discuss the direct.uk proposal with Nominet, and particularly their concerns about the impact of the security promises in the V1 consultation and that Nominet seems to be encroaching on the downstream certification market. My contact stated that they felt that the direct.uk proposal was presented to them as a 'done deal'."

+

One of the top members, who I know well, stated that they were not going to vote at the AGM, and we have just recently discovered on this forum evidence to prove that they did.

Why would any of those two statements that Lucien has end up in court? Lucien only said he had evidence of those two things, not who shot JFK

 

[Lucien Taylor]

I read a lot of banal facts that you're attempting to spin into a conspiracy.

Weird. You over-dramatise my obvious tongue in cheek 'proposal-over-dinner' statement calling it a serious allegation, and then accuse me of spin! I think on the face of it they are a bit more than banal facts, but we need more information. This is a forum isn't it? A place to share concerns, thoughts, ideas. I read a lot of pretty open hearted stuff on this forum and mostly people are able to control themselves. Why the outburst? Is this criticism of Nominet upsetting you?

 

[Lucien Taylor]

Is this you and Graeme attempting to harangue me as you did the chairman at the AGM?

LOL mate, honestly. Don't come out swinging your fists and then complain that everybody's being nasty to you. The Chair seemed to be having fun opening up the debate with a rant of her own. She comes from the House of Lords you know and those people are brutal.

 

[GreyWing]

Is this you and Graeme attempting to harangue me as you did the chairman at the AGM?

Oh lord, I wasn't haranguing you I was out all night with the CIA and my mates at MI5 bugging Nominet's phones, so certainly wasn't me.