What am I up against!?!?

[ian]

Having spent a great deal of time over the past week researching domains and in particular catching them, I'm coming to the conclusion that there is a reason why so few actually make a living of this, as it is incredibly hard to achieve (win?) anything.

I stayed up late last night to get the latest drop list for 7 days time; within seconds I was trying to book a catch but every single catcher service already had the name booked (hackney, so obviously a popular one).

It then dawned on me that the key players are seeing such lists much further in advance than I am, so was wondering, at what point do they see them? Is 60 days the furthest ahead you can see with suspended domains, or are some being notified by Nominet the second a renewal is missed, i.e. 92 days before the drop?

Reading this forum, I also get the impression that fighting for any major domains is worthless, as many are tied up with some private catchers working together (including a well known auction site!) to ensure who ever catches it, then splits the profit through sale/auction...this concerns me but obviously have no evidence other than speculation to back it up.

I will continue to invest some time, as I don't give up easily, but I'm going to approach this from a completely different angle and see how that goes.

 

[websaway]

Having spent a great deal of time over the past week researching domains and in particular catching them, I'm coming to the conclusion that there is a reason why so few actually make a living of this, as it is incredibly hard to achieve (win?) anything.

I stayed up late last night to get the latest drop list for 7 days time; within seconds I was trying to book a catch but every single catcher service already had the name booked (hackney, so obviously a popular one).

It then dawned on me that the key players are seeing such lists much further in advance than I am, so was wondering, at what point do they see them? Is 60 days the furthest ahead you can see with suspended domains, or are some being notified by Nominet the second a renewal is missed, i.e. 92 days before the drop?

Reading this forum, I also get the impression that fighting for any major domains is worthless, as many are tied up with some private catchers working together (including a well known auction site!) to ensure who ever catches it, then splits the profit through sale/auction...this concerns me but obviously have no evidence other than speculation to back it up.

I will continue to invest some time, as I don't give up easily, but I'm going to approach this from a completely different angle and see how that goes.

On top names you are up against a mountain.
A domain like hackney would have been on peoples radar since Nomember.

 

[ratboy]

Ian, you can get 60 day drop lists from here www.domainview.co.uk for £15 a month - a great service.

 

[foz]

You do all that work and they get renewed too. Chasing one word cherries or LLLs these days is competitive (50+ tags). Catching two word domains you have a chance, maybe.

 

[philiporchard]

What was the domain?

Hackney couk doesn't look like it's just been caught...

 

[ian]

Ian, you can get 60 day drop lists from here www.domainview.co.uk for £15 a month - a great service.

Thanks, I was considering that service, but is 60 days the furthest back the seasoned pro's see, or are they some how privy to information at the time a domain expires, i.e. 92 days before the drop?

What was the domain?

Hackney couk doesn't look like it's just been caught...

Hackney was just an example I used last night of a domain I found out about at exactly midnight but was already taken on all catch systems, but it seems that the drop lists go a long way further back, so my chances of catching meaningful single word domains are non-existent unless I can go much further back.

 

[grantw]

If you have/maintain your own database of domains then you can in theory view further back, a lot of public catchers don't let you book until the domain is suspended though.

The bottom line is, you are going to have almost no chance of catching premium domains using public catchers.

Grant

 

[DaveLeeds]

Hackney was just an example I used last night of a domain I found out about at exactly midnight but was already taken on all catch systems, but it seems that the drop lists go a long way further back, so my chances of catching meaningful single word domains are non-existent unless I can go much further back.

Hi Ian, using that domain as an example, it's due to drop on the 27th which is only a week away so it's no wonder it's booked up with all the catchers.
Also some catchers don't allow you to book a name with them until it's within 14 of days of dropping - so you have to get in there pretty quick.

I use the drop list provided by DomainView too - 60 days is adequate. If you spot a name that you want 40 - 60 days out then you could start negotiating a fee with a pvt catcher and the more you can get on board the better the odds, they do get lucky. P*pcorn - a domain that you wanted yourself was caught by one such catcher.

 

[Edwin]

It then dawned on me that the key players are seeing such lists much further in advance than I am, so was wondering, at what point do they see them? Is 60 days the furthest ahead you can see with suspended domains, or are some being notified by Nominet the second a renewal is missed, i.e. 92 days before the drop?

Nobody is being told anything by Nominet, that much is certain.

One way to compete is to start building your own drop lists. As others have said, you can get lists that are much longer by paying for them, but the fact that you can buy access to them means that others can too.

It's a long, slow, very dull slog, but there's nothing to stop you making your own lists from scratch by starting to list commercial keyphrases and checking their Whois status.

I did that over a period of a couple of years a while back, and came up with a list of about 120,000 domains that I considered would be "worth" catching if they dropped. That let me monitor the ones nearing expiry, and book them on (or in a few cases even before) the first day they expired.

Of course, 120,000 isn't a huge number so I'm sure I missed more than I found. But I still found that it was a pretty successful approach - certainly much more so than relying on bought in lists.

Plus the huge benefit is that once the list is ready, it dramatically shifts your workload. Instead of spending time every single day poring through lists of dropping names, 99.9% of which are meaningless junk, you just run a few hundred names a day through Whois and check their status.

But the task of making up the list, now that's a huge amount of work!

If you do go down that route, the best place to start is probably to dip into big ecommerce sites and see what their main product categories are, and then progressively go "niche". So if you decide "today, I'm going to build up the 'gardening' niche within my potential drop list" then set yourself the task of visiting dozens of gardening sites and stores, looking for commonalities and products/services that are commercially meaningful.

The other thing you'll need to do to maximise your chances is work with EVERYONE. When we were still drop catching, I was booking names with 12-15 catchers at a time, and I booked everything everywhere each time.

Finally, don't waste your time dreaming about chasing 3 letter domains. Most catchers won't even let you book them.

 

[Edwin]

If you do spread your net and work with more catchers, it helps to be methodical and good at keeping records (that's something I'm pretty bad at)

Because they all have different booking periods (some have no restrictions, some only allow you to book 30 or 14 or 7 days before) you want to keep on top of what you should be booking where every day.

So for the "no date limit" catchers you book as early as you possibly can, and for the rest you book early in the morning on the first day that they will accept that particular catch.

 

[ian]

Wow, thanks Edwin (and the rest) for such a conclusive reply, I really appreciate it. That is kind of the tact I'm moving towards now, searching out domains still registered that may, or not, drop eventually, though obviously looking a long time in to the future, but maybe worth it if the domain is right.

I've actually taken this approach to a specific domain I'm more confident will not be renewed than others, and already have signed up with the 3 catchers that allow the booking now, well in advance. I've also marked down when the other catchers allow bookings, to ensure I'm there at midnight on that particular day.

I have a domain currently ready to catch with 12 catchers now. The name isn't particular exciting, though is a single word domain, so I'll be interested to see if I'm successful or not.

 

[Retired_member41]

I don't think many people on here actually make a living out of catching domains, those that do have been at it for years and rightly deserve their income gained from expertise and tenacity.

Those who have risen to the top from nowhere of late have either invested in the best products available, like dropsystem.co.uk products from user azooza, or are closely related to people already doing it.

Facts are like most things in life, you get what you put into it.

You seem to have a good knowledge and grasp already, so you are on the right track.

Now you need to be realistic.

You can either scan lists and make plenty of calls selling domains that catchers do not catch.

You can try and book and pay £30 + per catch to catchers

Or you can do the sensible thing, beg or borrow the £800 needed to start catching for yourself, with only £30 a month ongoing costs, excluding reg fee etc, it is an affordable part time occupation/hobby

With so many credit cards available now, even the higher apr ones would make it worth getting. If cash or credit is a problem, sell some of your personal goods and when you start making money, buy new ones.

If you end up spending and making nothing then you have at learnt a valuable lesson, this may just not be for you.

Go buy a £2 net from the tat store and get down to the nearest canal or lake, although tempted, do not bother with the cabbage whites, hold out for any with blue in, maybe swing your net about 300 times a minute all day and night and if you are lucky and net one, try and put it on your jam jar, watch out though, cos even though you may have it in your sights, by the time you screw your jam jar lid on, it may not be there and have flew away.

Don't be too disheartened by the other butterfly catchers around you with nets the size of football fields and vacuum cleaners sucking them into a production line of jam jars, they are tricky and know all the scams to catch them.

By the way I am not having a pop, I love seeing more catchers, but most posts are nonsense and do not really need posting.

A bit like this one including mine

You may not think so but i am trying to help, the more you post, the less you will know, best to just read and make informed decisions on your own.

Unless your wanting to know specifics or need a new router, then acorn is amazing.

 

[websaway]

Cracking post above.

 

[DaveLeeds]

+1

Yes Caz, I can just see you.

I don't think many people on here actually make a living out of catching domains, those that do have been at it for years and rightly deserve their income gained from expertise and tenacity.

Those who have risen to the top from nowhere of late have either invested in the best products available, like dropsystem.co.uk products from user azooza, or are closely related to people already doing it.

Facts are like most things in life, you get what you put into it.

You seem to have a good knowledge and grasp already, so you are on the right track.

Now you need to be realistic.

You can either scan lists and make plenty of calls selling domains that catchers do not catch.

You can try and book and pay £30 + per catch to catchers

Or you can do the sensible thing, beg or borrow the £800 needed to start catching for yourself, with only £30 a month ongoing costs, excluding reg fee etc, it is an affordable part time occupation/hobby

With so many credit cards available now, even the higher apr ones would make it worth getting. If cash or credit is a problem, sell some of your personal goods and when you start making money, buy new ones.

If you end up spending and making nothing then you have at learnt a valuable lesson, this may just not be for you.

Go buy a £2 net from the tat store and get down to the nearest canal or lake, although tempted, do not bother with the cabbage whites, hold out for any with blue in, maybe swing your net about 300 times a minute all day and night and if you are lucky and net one, try and put it on your jam jar, watch out though, cos even though you may have it in your sights, by the time you screw your jam jar lid on, it may not be there and have flew away.

Don't be too disheartened by the other butterfly catchers around you with nets the size of football fields and vacuum cleaners sucking them into a production line of jam jars, they are tricky and know all the scams to catch them.

By the way I am not having a pop, I love seeing more catchers, but most posts are nonsense and do not really need posting.

A bit like this one including mine

You may not think so but i am trying to help, the more you post, the less you will know, best to just read and make informed decisions on your own.

Unless your wanting to know specifics or need a new router, then acorn is amazing.

 

[diablo]

Go buy a £2 net from the tat store and get down to the nearest canal or lake

What more does a domainer need to know?

 

[ian]

Thanks Caz (I think), but I'll probably just stick to running businesses rather than fishing for bugs!

Out of interest, which service offers all you mentioned for £800 and £30/month, as the ones I've seen (dropsystem for example) are significantly more than that!

 

[Murray]

People seem so negative.

Public catchers do sometimes catch nice names & it's well worth booking with them if you can.

Domains caught with public catchers paid for my nom membership and a years hosting catching with dropsystem when I first started around the end of 2012.

I think that is the best way to go for someone new; make money first booking with public catcher then reinvest in your nom membership and hosted catching - that way you wont lose anything (apart from your time)

I've easily made my money back and more during my year with dropsystem and it was also great to have someone with the experience of Dale to ask questions to.

Domainviews hosted catching is amazing really for the price it is, so there is another great option.

As long as you approach domaining as a fun hobby and you aren't depending on it for the money then it's brilliant to get into.

Nothing but positives from me.

 

[danielcoates]

Having read the posts above, particularly Caz's I think I am in need of keeping better records, and to think before I stump-up the £800+ for my own system.

I have been creating a list for the last 3-4 months, and can say it's probably not the best list, and it's mainly been done by hand but it has 287 names on it, mostly hand chosen, and for markets that I am interested in.

 

[Sam]

Are those that are currently thinking of "stumping up" money for their own membership/tag/hosting aware that once the new Nominet registrar agreement (search for "5.3.6" within that PDF for the specific clause) takes effect in the near future the total pool of *.uk domain names dropping daily, as they do now, will significantly decrease?

Yes but no one cares about that

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[PoshTiger]

I can't see it...

Most of the really good domains drop because either people don't know what they're worth, or the registrant can't be contacted - so can't give consent.

Add the fact that they have only a 60 day window to do this makes it even less likely.

Tony