Where's the Money? - Poll

[Aiden Roberts]

Obviously I would not expect people to give their secrets away but thoughts on where the money is in internet based business would be interesting!

I have added a poll with a few options, feel free to recommend more if you think it's relevant.

Aiden

 

[Edwin]

Selling domains to end users seems to be a good way to go. That, and developing selected domains (best to focus more on less sites, rather than spread yourself thin across dozens or hundreds - Google's less likely to throw a wobbly and dump you out of the index if you're a "large" site with decent, unique content)

 

[BREWSTERS]

I've gone with sales to end users as that's where my focus is. But the real money on the net is in providing a global service that 'clicks' with the masses...Ebay; Facebook; Twitter etc. That's where millions become billions, and billions will soon become trillions. Makes domaining look like a cottage industry...oh wait...it is!

 

[sdsinc]

Domain sales.
The margins are high with domain names, but you have to be picky.

Now some people will do better at development than pure play domaining, or vice versa.

 

[Aiden Roberts]

Selling domains to end users seems to be a good way to go. That, and developing selected domains (best to focus more on less sites, rather than spread yourself thin across dozens or hundreds - Google's less likely to throw a wobbly and dump you out of the index if you're a "large" site with decent, unique content)

Thanks Edwin

The end user route does seem to be the most sensible and lucrative route, that said it is frustrating when we read the posts about end users not understanding the value of a good domain name or by the sounds of things being totally indifferent to domainers. I have read that creating a sales/marketing pdf for decent names is a good idea (just need some decent names now ) which leads me onto your next point.

One or two good names developed into big/quality sites rather than a scatter gun approach also seems to have been spoke about a lot lately and endorsed. I can see the logic in this but feel it is difficult for us newbies as getting hold of a decent name is easier said than done and the cost involved in building a brand from scratch with a "brandable" would require deep pockets!

Really appreciate your input Edwin and I am sure many others do also.

Aiden

 

[Aiden Roberts]

I've gone with sales to end users as that's where my focus is. But the real money on the net is in providing a global service that 'clicks' with the masses...Ebay; Facebook; Twitter etc. That's where millions become billions, and billions will soon become trillions. Makes domaining look like a cottage industry...oh wait...it is!

Thanks Brewsters

Good luck with the end user route I am sure it will be worth it. I agree about the global service; it's just coming up with that killer idea. I suppose the internet is the best place to do it though and the next Facebook is probably just around the corner maybe from an acorner.

Thanks

Aiden

 

[Aiden Roberts]

Domain sales.
The margins are high with domain names, but you have to be picky.

Now some people will do better at development than pure play domaining, or vice versa.

You make a good point sdsinc, "the margins are high".

In posing my original question I sort of expected the flipping and end user options to lead the way because we are on a domain name led forum, with the potential for high margins sales a real possibility domaining initially seems to be where the money is. It will be interesting to see were the money is at the end of the month when the poll closes?

I think Edwin has given us a good business model to work at if we can secure the names.

Cheers

Aiden

 

[Edwin]

One or two good names developed into big/quality sites rather than a scatter gun approach also seems to have been spoke about a lot lately and endorsed. I can see the logic in this but feel it is difficult for us newbies as getting hold of a decent name is easier said than done and the cost involved in building a brand from scratch with a "brandable" would require deep pockets!

Sell a few generics to end-users, but instead of rushing out and buying a bucket more domains, save up and buy just ONE decent £x,xxx+ domain name in a commercial niche that you believe you could get "enthusiastic" about. Then build that out...

Rick (Domain King) has a great post about domains and diamonds that illustrates the first part very well.
http://www.ricksblog.com/my_weblog/2011/11/think-of-domains-like-you-think-of-diamonds.html

 

[Aiden Roberts]

Sell a few generics to end-users, but instead of rushing out and buying a bucket more domains, save up and buy just ONE decent £x,xxx+ domain name in a commercial niche that you believe you could get "enthusiastic" about. Then build that out...

Great Advice

I have been busy making newbie mistakes and it's taken 7 months to come to the plan that you have just described, I wish I would have started this thread 7 months ago.

Thanks Edwin

 

[Aiden Roberts]

Rick (Domain King) has a great post about domains and diamonds that illustrates the first part very well.
http://www.ricksblog.com/my_weblog/2011/11/think-of-domains-like-you-think-of-diamonds.html

Thanks for the link that makes a lot of sense. I think when you first come into domaining it is easy to become complacent, we read stories of big sales, when we look at these names that have sold for big money it's easy or stupid to think "that name is crap and I can do better". After a while those in it for the long haul start investigating why a name went for so much, what made it worth the money and that's how and when you find the bigger diamonds.

Thanks Edwin

 

[Edwin]

I think when you first come into domaining it is easy to become complacent, we read stories of big sales, when we look at these names that have sold for big money it's easy or stupid to think "that name is crap and I can do better"

99% of the time it will be the "lottery ticket" effect (all lottery tickets are worthless except the winning ones) i.e. because by definition only successful sales are publicly reported, what you see is not representative of the overall domain industry (just like reading all about previous lottery jackpot winners is not representative of your odds of winning the lottery).

So of course there will continue to be "baffling" sales (ones where your eyebrows shoot up and you think "They paid HOW much? For THAT?!") but those sorts of sales are a function of the fact that there are millions upon millions of domains for sale - once in a blue moon something non-obvious to 99.9999% of onlookers will hit a nerve with one particular buyer. That's fantastic if/when it happens, but you can't take that kind of "luck" to the bank!

 

[Aiden Roberts]

99% of the time it will be the "lottery ticket" effect (all lottery tickets are worthless except the winning ones) i.e. because by definition only successful sales are publicly reported, what you see is not representative of the overall domain industry (just like reading all about previous lottery jackpot winners is not representative of your odds of winning the lottery).

So of course there will continue to be "baffling" sales (ones where your eyebrows shoot up and you think "They paid HOW much? For THAT?!") but those sorts of sales are a function of the fact that there are millions upon millions of domains for sale - once in a blue moon something non-obvious to 99.9999% of onlookers will hit a nerve with one particular buyer. That's fantastic if/when it happens, but you can't take that kind of "luck" to the bank!

I wonder how much is luck and how much is skill when picking that winning domain? At least with domains you have much more of a chance to stack the odds in your favour as you said earlier "£x,xxx+" names are better than all the losing tickets/domains.

I have learned that the hard way but learned I have. I find your insight really interesting and very useful, I only hope I can put it into practice.

Thank you Edwin

Aiden

 

[Edwin]

I wonder how much is luck and how much is skill when picking that winning domain? At least with domains you have much more of a chance to stack the odds in your favour as you said earlier "£x,xxx+" names are better than all the losing tickets/domains.

I think you misunderstood my point. I was talking about the sale of "unobvious brandables" for big money i.e. non-generic names that practically nobody would see the point of, but which just happen to snare a deep-pocketed buyer.

You're quite right in that you can shorten the odds very considerably if you understand what potentially makes one domain name valuable and another one not.

 

[Aiden Roberts]

I think you misunderstood my point. I was talking about the sale of "unobvious brandables" for big money i.e. non-generic names that practically nobody would see the point of, but which just happen to snare a deep-pocketed buyer.

You're quite right in that you can shorten the odds very considerably if you understand what potentially makes one domain name valuable and another one not.

Sorry; yes I did misunderstand.

This seems to be the one constant with domain names "the domains value is what the right buyer is willing to pay". I suppose the skill element is understanding the general potential rather than the ultimate value; something which many including me seem to struggle with. Experience seems to be the main ingredient and I guess this is true for any sustainable success.

Anyone other newbies reading this thread take note, there are some 10 carat diamond pieces of information from Edwin.

Thanks you Edwin

 

[GreyWing]

Anyone other newbies reading this thread take note, there are some 10 carat diamond pieces of information from Edwin.

Me personally I'd disagree with Edwin on this and have for a while, Edwin quite rightly has his business approach and it works for him and I have mine and it works for me. I mean specifically that Edwin has one price he sells a name at regardless of who it is that has come to enquire about it, again fair enough. This isn't about matching methods because to find out exactly would require 20/20 hindsight which nobody has.

More specifically I differ from Edwin in that he determines a domain to have one value, that's how he comes to a price.

I've always said a domain name has 3 values,

1) What is it worth to you.

Do you need it for the future, can you replace it, is it making anything etc?

2) What it is worth to someone else (a specific person, a buyer enquiry etc)

How much for them to rebrand if they don't get it, how much are they losing in leakage by not having it, seo etc

3) What it is worth to everyone else

If you don't sell it to person 2 when they enquire, are you likely to sell to anyone else? Would the average Joe see value in it?


Whilst yes, interest in your domain is a lottery ticket to a certain extent, how much they are willing to pay isn't. You need to do research into potential buyers as well to extract most per sale.

Just like Edwin says about domains "only successful sales are reported" I agree, but the same definition only the amount that was paid by the buyer is reported, not what they would have paid. For example, b.co.uk sells for £1000. It is impossible to report what the buyer would have actually paid and what the seller actually missed out on.

So extracting as much from each sale is more important than selling endless domain names. I can give two such recent examples that happened to me where I would have made colossal mistakes in selling a domain name, only at what I thought it was actually worth to me.

 

[retired_member33]

BaaahhhhBaaahhhhhh

A few exacts... Try to sell to end users
More exacts and no product to sell... Try to sell to end users
Enough exacts and a decent price per sale... Keep it and pitch it to end users while making money from affiliate programs.


From my point of view its better to hold on to good domains and make some money from it.

Selling a domain with a good search volume and with affiliate programs out there is just a waste... A good domain without any affiliate programs out there, try to sell it asap for a good price( not the prices Edwin is asking ) and make some money from it.

 

[philiporchard]

If you can manage to develop the domain, then it seems the most logical way to go, especially if you're looking at building a long term strategy

 

[Aiden Roberts]

Me personally I'd disagree with Edwin on this and have for a while, Edwin quite rightly has his business approach and it works for him and I have mine and it works for me. I mean specifically that Edwin has one price he sells a name at regardless of who it is that has come to enquire about it, again fair enough. This isn't about matching methods because to find out exactly would require 20/20 hindsight which nobody has.

More specifically I differ from Edwin in that he determines a domain to have one value, that's how he comes to a price.

I've always said a domain name has 3 values,

1) What is it worth to you.

Do you need it for the future, can you replace it, is it making anything etc?

2) What it is worth to someone else (a specific person, a buyer enquiry etc)

How much for them to rebrand if they don't get it, how much are they losing in leakage by not having it, seo etc

3) What it is worth to everyone else

If you don't sell it to person 2 when they enquire, are you likely to sell to anyone else? Would the average Joe see value in it?


Whilst yes, interest in your domain is a lottery ticket to a certain extent, how much they are willing to pay isn't. You need to do research into potential buyers as well to extract most per sale.

Just like Edwin says about domains "only successful sales are reported" I agree, but the same definition only the amount that was paid by the buyer is reported, not what they would have paid. For example, b.co.uk sells for £1000. It is impossible to report what the buyer would have actually paid and what the seller actually missed out on.

So extracting as much from each sale is more important than selling endless domain names. I can give two such recent examples that happened to me where I would have made colossal mistakes in selling a domain name, only at what I thought it was actually worth to me.

Thanks GreyWing

Your points are really helpful. From Edwin's posts I did not take his rigid pricing structure rather the fact that it's better to focus your efforts and something that's worthwhile such as better quality names and authoritative sites. Your post also offers some great insight with the underlying structure of thinking through why you are buying a specific name and a plan for it's future.

The hardest part seems to be putting a value on a name, historic sales give an indication but as both of you have suggested the key is selling it at the right price for you an the buyer.

Looking at the poll this morning I can see that end user and mixture are leading the way, this would back up both of your strategies!

Thanks again

Aiden

 

[Aiden Roberts]

I was thinking the money was in flipping, having a good script and turning out regular catches. Maybe the discussion about poor quality drops is proven by the poll above.

Aiden

 

[namdas]

One or two good names developed into big/quality sites rather than a scatter gun approach also seems to have been spoke about a lot lately and endorsed. I can see the logic in this but feel it is difficult for us newbies as getting hold of a decent name is easier said than done and the cost involved in building a brand from scratch with a "brandable" would require deep pockets!

I managed to catch a rather nice insurance EMD with high exacts that I then got to rank #1. Now, that emd search term makes just 17% of my daily traffic and revenue for that site. Perhaps having a good domain encouraged me to go into that market where I may not have otherwise, but a 'good name' is not the be all and end all. But it only cost me £30 at caught.co.uk (thanks!) - plus a lot of time with spreadsheets and a bulk checking tool.

Big sites with time, links and good content invested in them rather than a 'scattergun' approach are definitely the answer to good earnings from affiliate sites - but there's no need to have deep pockets to begin with; I would say that until recently when I had more funds to invest, the vast majority of my websites started life small and shitty. Each month I'd add a bit more content and a few more links, nothing too remarkable just a steady pace, and then all of a sudden you'd find that a year later you actually have quite a good website and you're making enough income from it to reinvest and perhaps make it great - or just rank for some great keywords. Far too many affiliates do the dfirst month's build, sit back and then wonder why nothing ever works for them. Persistence is far more valuable than any one domain name or any one link.

Its also true that if you stumbled upon creditcards.co.uk, carinsurance.co.uk or cheapholidays.co.uk it is unlikely that you could rank for those terms until you had cut your teeth elsewhere - in competitive verticals even with the right name it can take a huge investment in marketing and time to get ranking so it is not all about a great name - even if they do give you a boost, that can often just be a boost from #150 to #30 and still nowhere near where people will actually look in the serps. The EMD I mention above took over 18 months to hit the top ten for its search term and until then only got 5 UV a day, and in the mean time it was my smaller, less ambitious sites that were keeping me in noodles and street food

There's nothing wrong with starting with a smaller EMD term, provided you don't box yourself in - eg whatmobilephone and pinkmobilephone both have low exacts, but one day whatmobilephone could conceivably rank for mobile deals, mobile contracts or many other generics while pinkmobilephone just wouldn't fit right.