Heads up on a possible PM then MSNGR then Paypal scam

[woopwoop]

Thought I'd give a heads up on a possible PM then MSNGR then Paypal scam that may be happening with a member on acorn.

I won't mention the username of who I think might be doing this but the MO, seems identical to a scam outlined on another webmaster forum:


A user with 0 posts PM'ed me here about one of my domains and said:

hey,do u have yahoo or msn for live chat? i want buy that ,thanks

I pm'ed them my email address and they added me.

I searched the guys email after he added me, and uncovered a thread in a forum which outlined how this person did a deal on msngr for a couple of domains, paid paypal, the domains were transfered and he confirmed he received the names, then he requested a full refund through paypal, and they processed it.

I don't know how paypal are able to refund the money even though the items were transfered (unless a stolen credit card was used) but they did, leaving the seller without the money or domains.

I haven't yet had chance to chat with the guy yet but I think that if this is a scam and he's doing it again, then there's a good chance other people on the forum have been pm'ed about their domains too.

Be very careful and I don't know how you can prevent this from happening.

Is there a certain amount of time after which paypal can't do a chargeback and so it would be safe to then transfer the domains...?

Look out for someone PM-ing you the message above with zero forum posts.

 

[Admin]

Thanks for the alert, 1 forum post or not PayPal doesn't seem a safe bet for receiving domain funds.

 

[GreyWing]

it's indefinite the time they can claw the money back, if they attempt to claw the money from you an it's not in your paypal account, they'll try to send some debt collectors to your address or send some letter at least.

 

[woopwoop]

OK I'm certain this is a scam so here's the guy's details:

Acorn username: ep42
paypal email [email protected]
msn is [email protected]

Stay well clear.

 

[golddiggerguy]

Not sure what to make of this one but it's an email from a contact form on the website of the domain I own and thought i'd share just in case too.

Hi and how are you today?

I am so sorry if I am disturbing you.

I own the domain name *********.ws and I was wondering if you would like to purchase the domain name from me.

I can sell you the domain name for $100.00 and you can pay me to my paypal account *************@gmail.com or for a more secure deal we can use www.escrow.com but buyer pays all escrow fees. Or you can go to www.*********.ws and submit an offer but since sedo charges me 15% you would have to submit an offer for $115.00 which I will accept and I think (though I may be wrong) that sedo uses escrow so you would have to pay all buyer fees.

If you click on this link https://www.godaddy.com/**********
You will see all usa extensions are already taken.

You can call me to (469)********* or you can call me to (972)********* if you are interested. Or just mail me back to ***********@gmail.com

If you visit my website www.******************.com and you click on ebay store you will see that I have 100% positive feedbacks both as a seller and a buyer.

Thank you for your time and have a GREAT day!!

Sincerely,


Got A reply after saying no thanks

Hi and how are you today?

Thank you for responding to me so quickly.

No problem and I totally understand.

You have a GREAT day!!

Sincerely,

 

[woopwoop]

hmm. sounds a bit strange - but an easy one to dodge if they're trying to sell you a .ws

 

[dotuk]

I don't know how paypal are able to refund the money even though the items were transfered (unless a stolen credit card was used) but they did, leaving the seller without the money or domains.

Well,
PayPal has screwing policies for buyers regarding intangible/digital items.

13. Disputes between Buyers and Sellers - Buyer Protection Programs.

1. 13.1 Buyer Protection Programs. If you buy an item using PayPal and either do not receive the item or receive an item that you believe is Significantly Not as Described by the seller, we encourage you to open a Dispute with the seller in our Resolution Center. By doing so, you will initiate our Online Dispute Resolution Process—a step-by-step system designed to facilitate communication between you and the seller in order to get resolution of the issue. If your dialogue with the seller fails to produce a satisfactory result, you can then escalate the Dispute into a Claim that we will evaluate for reimbursement under one of the following programs:
   1. PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy - Our best efforts program to reimburse Users for losses only to the extent we are able to recover the funds from sellers.
   2. PayPal Buyer Protection Policy - Our program to reimburse Users for losses for up to (i) $2,000.00 USD (Top Tier Coverage Amount) for eligible items purchased on eBay and (ii) up to $200.00 USD (Basic Tier Coverage Amount) for all other eligible items purchased on eBay and for eligible items purchased on eBay. Please see section 13.9 to determine whether Top Tier Coverage Amount or Basic Tier Coverage Amount applies to your eBay purchase.
   3. Buyer Protection for eBay Express - Our program to reimburse Users for the full amount of losses for items purchased on eBay Express.
   4. Extended Buyer Protection with PayPal Credit - Our program to reimburse Users for the full transactional amount of the items purchased using PayPal Credit.
   These programs only cover payments for tangible, physical goods. All other payments, such as payments for intangibles, services, airline flight tickets, or licenses and other access to digital content are not covered by any Buyer Protection Program.

13.8 Claims Eligibility. In addition to the other limitations called out within this Agreement, the following limitations apply to Claims:

Claims must be for payments for tangible, physical goods that can be shipped, and not all other payments, such as payments for intangibles, for services or for licenses and other access to digital content. For purposes of eBay items, motor vehicles and Live Auctions are not covered.

Source:
https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/policy_pbp-outside

So it is better to avoid using PayPal for domain transactions. Escrow.com, or other 3rd party domain escrow services like Sedo, Moniker, and AfterNIC are more convenient, IMO.

 

[DaveH]

Quick search on that email address reveals:

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?p=7706648
http://www.namepros.com/460127-rkzj-com-start-1-a-print.html

 

[woopwoop]

Quick search on that email address reveals:

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?p=7706648
http://www.namepros.com/460127-rkzj-com-start-1-a-print.html

Yep I found these after the guy contacted me, that's when I made the first post. I wanted to play through the scam a bit though so it was funny when he was chatting with me on msngr - an insight into how a scammer operates!

 

[alomani]

I lost £550 worth of domains on here by a member called meeboo. Same scamming technique. Paypal took his side and they told me even if it was a scam we can't do anything about because its an intangible item.

 

[woopwoop]

I lost £550 worth of domains on here by a member called meeboo. Same scamming technique. Paypal took his side and they told me even if it was a scam we can't do anything about because its an intangible item.

That really stinks, What can you do? File a complaint at ICANN and nominet...
This should be very easy for them to trace down, the paper trail and emails are obvious...

I guess you can just make it difficult for a sale to ever go through again with the same name or you could try and do the same scam on them further down the line... it does stink.

If anyone ever pays me through paypal, I'd be tempted to treat it as a physical asset. So that the paypal protection applies. Just record it as a laptop sale through paypal or something.

Then the scam can't work can it - because paypal see it as a tangible good... if the buyer refuses to go ahead with your paypal invoice saying "computer parts" or something - then maybe that's a clue about the scam that they are doing.

These scammers need a beating.

 

[estator]

Please help me!!!

Help me please! I got exact this scam!!
the member is Get+1

"hi guy
do you have yahoo or msn for live chat? i want to buy some of your domains with bulk price

thanks alot"

He claimed to be david cramp, his email address and paypal account is [email protected]

After I transfered the domains to his name.com account: 185594-abc0771, he claimed the payment back with a dispute.

Never receive a word from him so far. Now my money is on hold and my domains are gone!

This stinks and paypal has to stand beside the good guy, not the other way around. I sent email pleading to both paypal and name.com

PLease advice me what to do? File report to ICANN can help?

Please help. Thank you.

 

[FC Domains]

Now I'm confused.
I read it that it's the buyer who has problems with intangible goods. So all you have to do is tell PayPal that it wasn't a physical item and he can't claim the money back.

 

[estator]

Now I'm confused.
I read it that it's the buyer who has problems with intangible goods. So all you have to do is tell PayPal that it wasn't a physical item and he can't claim the money back.

I'm confused by this point too.
I'm also confused that people can't get their money or domains back as domainers have all neccessary documents.

Has anyone successful with a complaint at ICANN, as suggested by woopwoop, for all kind of complaints, not specifically this? I'm just don't know how efficient ICANN is?

Can IANA help?

 

[woopwoop]

I think that the description of the goods that are sold as stated through paypal is the key here.

If the it's described as tangible or intangible.

 

[Skinner]

I stopped buying thru ebay coz of the scams and now stopped using paypal unless they are def legit because of this type of scam.

For example a seller who is active on dnforum (he is DNF Exclusive) and his posts and rep looked ok, so I agreed on the sale, asked them for payment details, the details finally came at 11:11am, payment was made at 12:05pm along with my godaddy details via paypal.

After a week or so I get an email telling me, I havent sent GD or push details and the name expires today and they can't push it (GD tell me bull, it can be transferred/pushed for a while after expirary but i'd need to renew it to keep it) and acusing me of not sending GD details. So I checked the paypal payment confirm less than an hour after invoice includes the details.

Anyway I forward a copy of my paypal statement that clearly includes my godaddy info, and new reg info, and they should push the name or refund and keep the name and they go silent.

Paypal then screw me as its not a tangiable item, and they block me from leaving appropriate feedback leaving this prick to rob/steal/cheat god knows how many other people, I'd expect more from someone who has 1200+ posts and paid sub to a forum.

I now always tick the box that says 'goods' when sending money thru paypal to ANYONE, and I am in the process of doing a charge back thru my bank against this member which means paypal can go fuck themselves as my bank will take it off them one way or another.

 

[woopwoop]

Skinner I think that if you are sending money and you have intangible goods ticked then you are in better shape to get the money back.

 

[Skinner]

The sale to the DNF user was intangiable its the last and only one I got hit with before I mark everything as a physical product. The bank will refund the money tangiable or not long as you can prove it. I once got ripped off by a hosting company, and I did a charge back then too, long as you have proof and have reasonable tried to sort it out a charge back can be painless thru your bank.

 

[dashu1]

Plus if you do a chargeback through the bank they incur charges of I think £10 or $10 from paypal on top of the original sum.

I sell quite a lot of ebooks & regularly get people paying, recieving the ebook & then trying to immediately claim a refund. I just go to the paypal resolution center & type in "it is an ebook & is intangible goods" & thats the end of that - unless they do the charge back...

 

[estator]

Plus if you do a chargeback through the bank they incur charges of I think £10 or $10 from paypal on top of the original sum.

I sell quite a lot of ebooks & regularly get people paying, recieving the ebook & then trying to immediately claim a refund. I just go to the paypal resolution center & type in "it is an ebook & is intangible goods" & thats the end of that - unless they do the charge back...

Sounds great and easy. Thanks.