Domain Manage

Heads up on a possible PM then MSNGR then Paypal scam

Discussion in 'Domain Name Scams' started by woopwoop, May 19, 2008.

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  1. woopwoop United States

    woopwoop Well-Known Member

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    Thought I'd give a heads up on a possible PM then MSNGR then Paypal scam that may be happening with a member on acorn.

    I won't mention the username of who I think might be doing this but the MO, seems identical to a scam outlined on another webmaster forum:


    A user with 0 posts PM'ed me here about one of my domains and said:
    I pm'ed them my email address and they added me.

    I searched the guys email after he added me, and uncovered a thread in a forum which outlined how this person did a deal on msngr for a couple of domains, paid paypal, the domains were transfered and he confirmed he received the names, then he requested a full refund through paypal, and they processed it.

    I don't know how paypal are able to refund the money even though the items were transfered (unless a stolen credit card was used) but they did, leaving the seller without the money or domains.

    I haven't yet had chance to chat with the guy yet but I think that if this is a scam and he's doing it again, then there's a good chance other people on the forum have been pm'ed about their domains too.

    Be very careful and I don't know how you can prevent this from happening.

    Is there a certain amount of time after which paypal can't do a chargeback and so it would be safe to then transfer the domains...?

    Look out for someone PM-ing you the message above with zero forum posts.
     
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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  3. admin Spain

    admin Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks for the alert, 1 forum post or not PayPal doesn't seem a safe bet for receiving domain funds.
     
  4. GreyWing

    GreyWing Retired Member

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    it's indefinite the time they can claw the money back, if they attempt to claw the money from you an it's not in your paypal account, they'll try to send some debt collectors to your address or send some letter at least.
     
  5. woopwoop United States

    woopwoop Well-Known Member

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  6. golddiggerguy United Kingdom

    golddiggerguy Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what to make of this one but it's an email from a contact form on the website of the domain I own and thought i'd share just in case too.

    Hi and how are you today?

    I am so sorry if I am disturbing you.

    I own the domain name *********.ws and I was wondering if you would like to purchase the domain name from me.

    I can sell you the domain name for $100.00 and you can pay me to my paypal account *************@gmail.com or for a more secure deal we can use www.escrow.com but buyer pays all escrow fees. Or you can go to www.*********.ws and submit an offer but since sedo charges me 15% you would have to submit an offer for $115.00 which I will accept and I think (though I may be wrong) that sedo uses escrow so you would have to pay all buyer fees.

    If you click on this link https://www.godaddy.com/**********
    You will see all usa extensions are already taken.

    You can call me to (469)********* or you can call me to (972)********* if you are interested. Or just mail me back to ***********@gmail.com

    If you visit my website www.******************.com and you click on ebay store you will see that I have 100% positive feedbacks both as a seller and a buyer.

    Thank you for your time and have a GREAT day!! :)

    Sincerely,



    Got A reply after saying no thanks

    Hi and how are you today?

    Thank you for responding to me so quickly. :)

    No problem and I totally understand.

    You have a GREAT day!! :)

    Sincerely,
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2008
  7. woopwoop United States

    woopwoop Well-Known Member

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    hmm. sounds a bit strange - but an easy one to dodge if they're trying to sell you a .ws
     
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  8. dotuk

    dotuk Active Member

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    Well,
    PayPal has screwing policies for buyers regarding intangible/digital items. :mad:

    Source:
    https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/policy_pbp-outside

    So it is better to avoid using PayPal for domain transactions. Escrow.com, or other 3rd party domain escrow services like Sedo, Moniker, and AfterNIC are more convenient, IMO.
     
  9. DaveH United Kingdom

    DaveH Active Member

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  10. woopwoop United States

    woopwoop Well-Known Member

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  11. alomani

    alomani Active Member

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    I lost £550 worth of domains on here by a member called meeboo. Same scamming technique. Paypal took his side and they told me even if it was a scam we can't do anything about because its an intangible item.

    :(
     
  12. woopwoop United States

    woopwoop Well-Known Member

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    That really stinks, What can you do? File a complaint at ICANN and nominet...
    This should be very easy for them to trace down, the paper trail and emails are obvious...

    I guess you can just make it difficult for a sale to ever go through again with the same name or you could try and do the same scam on them further down the line... it does stink.

    If anyone ever pays me through paypal, I'd be tempted to treat it as a physical asset. So that the paypal protection applies. Just record it as a laptop sale through paypal or something.

    Then the scam can't work can it - because paypal see it as a tangible good... if the buyer refuses to go ahead with your paypal invoice saying "computer parts" or something - then maybe that's a clue about the scam that they are doing.

    These scammers need a beating.
     
  13. estator

    estator Member

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    Please help me!!!

    Help me please! I got exact this scam!!
    the member is Get+1

    "hi guy
    do you have yahoo or msn for live chat? i want to buy some of your domains with bulk price

    thanks alot"

    He claimed to be david cramp, his email address and paypal account is dave.cramp@ntlworld.com

    After I transfered the domains to his name.com account: 185594-abc0771, he claimed the payment back with a dispute.

    Never receive a word from him so far. Now my money is on hold and my domains are gone!

    This stinks and paypal has to stand beside the good guy, not the other way around. I sent email pleading to both paypal and name.com

    PLease advice me what to do? File report to ICANN can help?

    Please help. Thank you.
     
  14. FC Domains

    FC Domains Well-Known Member

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    Now I'm confused.
    I read it that it's the buyer who has problems with intangible goods. So all you have to do is tell PayPal that it wasn't a physical item and he can't claim the money back.
     
  15. estator

    estator Member

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    I'm confused by this point too.
    I'm also confused that people can't get their money or domains back as domainers have all neccessary documents.

    Has anyone successful with a complaint at ICANN, as suggested by woopwoop, for all kind of complaints, not specifically this? I'm just don't know how efficient ICANN is?

    Can IANA help?
     
  16. woopwoop United States

    woopwoop Well-Known Member

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    I think that the description of the goods that are sold as stated through paypal is the key here.

    If the it's described as tangible or intangible.
     
  17. Skinner

    Skinner Well-Known Member

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    I stopped buying thru ebay coz of the scams and now stopped using paypal unless they are def legit because of this type of scam.

    For example a seller who is active on dnforum (he is DNF Exclusive) and his posts and rep looked ok, so I agreed on the sale, asked them for payment details, the details finally came at 11:11am, payment was made at 12:05pm along with my godaddy details via paypal.

    After a week or so I get an email telling me, I havent sent GD or push details and the name expires today and they can't push it (GD tell me bull, it can be transferred/pushed for a while after expirary but i'd need to renew it to keep it) and acusing me of not sending GD details. So I checked the paypal payment confirm less than an hour after invoice includes the details.

    Anyway I forward a copy of my paypal statement that clearly includes my godaddy info, and new reg info, and they should push the name or refund and keep the name and they go silent.

    Paypal then screw me as its not a tangiable item, and they block me from leaving appropriate feedback leaving this prick to rob/steal/cheat god knows how many other people, I'd expect more from someone who has 1200+ posts and paid sub to a forum.

    I now always tick the box that says 'goods' when sending money thru paypal to ANYONE, and I am in the process of doing a charge back thru my bank against this member which means paypal can go fuck themselves as my bank will take it off them one way or another.
     
  18. woopwoop United States

    woopwoop Well-Known Member

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    Skinner I think that if you are sending money and you have intangible goods ticked then you are in better shape to get the money back.
     
  19. Skinner

    Skinner Well-Known Member

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    The sale to the DNF user was intangiable its the last and only one I got hit with before I mark everything as a physical product. The bank will refund the money tangiable or not long as you can prove it. I once got ripped off by a hosting company, and I did a charge back then too, long as you have proof and have reasonable tried to sort it out a charge back can be painless thru your bank.
     
  20. dashu1 United Kingdom

    dashu1 Well-Known Member

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    Plus if you do a chargeback through the bank they incur charges of I think £10 or $10 from paypal on top of the original sum.

    I sell quite a lot of ebooks & regularly get people paying, recieving the ebook & then trying to immediately claim a refund. I just go to the paypal resolution center & type in "it is an ebook & is intangible goods" & thats the end of that - unless they do the charge back...
     
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  21. estator

    estator Member

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    Sounds great and easy. Thanks.
     
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