UK Leaves the EU - What happens next?

[bonusmedia]

The first strategy meeting set the tone for the entire
'Stronger In' campaign...

View attachment 1266

Except all that 'scaremongering' by people who dared to know what they were talking about has turned out to be reasonably accurate so far.

On the other hand the Brexit camp have abandoned half their claims and promises in the first few days

 

[bonusmedia]

Well....


when perhaps



but that just sounds too poncy for this forum.



You're preaching to the converted. I thought I was the only one trying to look on the bright side.

Where are you on the

Five stages of Brexit?

I'm guessing it's a 3 or 4?

That Simpsons parody of the 5 stages of grief is actually pretty relevant. Many people are feeling desperately sad for their country, in some ways it feels like a bereavement - certainly a huge shock and a huge loss.

Does it not strike you as a bit cruel to mock those who are grieving?

 

[gimpydog]

Dead Ringers - Post Referendum Special

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/b07glx81

​

 

[Toonz]

I don't think Brexit has made Britain more racist, i do think however, that is had made it socially acceptable for those racists to be more open and proud about their racism...

The way I see it, 17 million people may not be racist, but the racists now feel that they have 17 million other people who agree with them. And that's lamentable.

It's obviously not the fault of all Leave voters, but it's deeply unfortunate and depressing all the same.

I'll be upfront about this: I think xenophobia and racism may have played a bigger part in the result than many people will want to admit. I stress that that may still have been a minority, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was enough to have tipped the result to the Leave side. And I think that's another small part of why I'm feeling so angry and depressed about it.

 

[Toonz]

OMG! There were racists BEFORE Brexit too!

Remember, whatever get's the attention of the masses will be forced down their throats. Not heard much about Jo Cox this past few days, suppose there's no reason to anymore.

Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. Especially if it comes from mainstream media...question everything - don't think for one second they don't have an agenda.

I overheard parts of an exchange about the result on the train last week, just before the vote, with one man saying something along the lines of "about time - the white people have had enough of 'em, we need our country back". Perhaps I should have interjected, but I didn't feel that either of them were the kind to be receptive to reason, let alone in public (where shaming would have only further raised the temperature and lessened their capacity for reason) so I kept quiet. But I have definitely detected an increase in racist and race-related discussion since the campaign kicked off.

I stress, that's not mainstream media telling me that, it's my own experience which I accept is only anecdote but then if we dismiss mainstream media, dismiss anecdote and dismiss social research organisations ("experts") and race organisations ("vested interests"), then what do we have left?

Racism is a base instinct. It's always lurking just below the surface and unscrupulous politicians (esp UKIP) and newspapers (esp Daily Mail and Daily Express) know how to exploit it for personal gain, whether to divide and conquer or stoke outrage. Outrage sells. Their behaviour throughout the referendum campaign has been abominable.

 

[gimpydog]

 

[BREWSTERS]

Yet with no evidence at all you have decided your conspiracy theory is the truth!

Extraordinary claims required extraordinary evidence - and the hypotheses that requires the fewest assumptions is usually the truth.

Like with every scam, what you can't see is as important as what you can.
I don't see proportionate grieving (or any!) from the family less than two days after the worst event of their lives. Body language is harder to fake than words are.
I don't see any independent footage or cctv before, during or after the event.
I don't see any blood on pictures taken at the scene (stabbed several times and shot 3 times...no blood!)

And what we do see;
Accused's name plastered all over the media within hours, and a day before he was charged (illegal).
Closely followed by a full backstory telling of strong right-wing behaviour (none of which is backed up by anyone who knows him).
A typed, 17yo receipt for extremist material (produced within two hours the guys name being put out) by a US organisation. Seriously...just think about that, how in the world could that be possible?
Remain camp party leaders up in Yorkshire the next day (no leave campaign leaders though).
Accused taken to Westminster for pre-trial hearing (no courts in Yorkshire?) presided over by the same magistrate who lead the pre-trial hearing for the Lee Rigby accused. And who cancelled the trial for the paedo Lord Janner.
For all intents and purposes the media has it all wrapped up and nicely packaged....you don't need to look any further!

Something you all look out for with false flag events, is when the media use the line "here's what we know". It's a subtle but powerful way of brainwashing into making people accept what they say, without question.

I could go on but this is seriously off-topic now.

Tell me, if every attack is a false flag, do you believe terrorism doesn't actually exist?

I grew up while the IRA were bombing Britain, so I know the difference between genuine terrorism, and manufactured-to-promote-an-agenda terrorism.

Do you believe that ISIS is a genuine terrorist organisation of fanatical religious extremists? Even the US government admits they fund it.

One way to tell the difference between genuine and manucatured terror, is to compare the type of targets.

---------------------------------------------

Anyway, back to Brexit.

 

[VSC]

Five stages of Brexit?

I'm guessing it's a 3 or 4?

Isn't denial a river in Egypt?

 

[bonusmedia]

Like with every scam, what you can't see is as important as what you can.
I don't see proportionate grieving (or any!) from the family less than two days after the worst event of their lives. Body language is harder to fake than words are.
I don't see any independent footage or cctv before, during or after the event.
I don't see any blood on pictures taken at the scene (stabbed several times and shot 3 times...no blood!)

And what we do see;
Accused's name plastered all over the media within hours, and a day before he was charged (illegal).
Closely followed by a full backstory telling of strong right-wing behaviour (none of which is backed up by anyone who knows him).
A typed, 17yo receipt for extremist material (produced within two hours the guys name being put out) by a US organisation. Seriously...just think about that, how in the world could that be possible?
Remain camp party leaders up in Yorkshire the next day (no leave campaign leaders though).
Accused taken to Westminster for pre-trial hearing (no courts in Yorkshire?) presided over by the same magistrate who lead the pre-trial hearing for the Lee Rigby accused. And who cancelled the trial for the paedo Lord Janner.
For all intents and purposes the media has it all wrapped up and nicely packaged....you don't need to look any further!

Something you all look out for with false flag events, is when the media use the line "here's what we know". It's a subtle but powerful way of brainwashing into making people accept what they say, without question.

I could go on but this is seriously off-topic now.




I grew up while the IRA were bombing Britain, so I know the difference between genuine terrorism, and manufactured-to-promote-an-agenda terrorism.

Do you believe that ISIS is a genuine terrorist organisation of fanatical religious extremists? Even the US government admits they fund it.

One way to tell the difference between genuine and manucatured terror, is to compare the type of targets.

---------------------------------------------

Anyway, back to Brexit.

It is mind-bogglingly arrogant to suggest that you can judge whether a family is grieving based on their body language in 10 second video clips.
Have you considered that there may not be CCTV footage because it's a small town in Yorkshire that doesn't have cameras everywhere?
Are you a medical expert? Unless an artery or vein is ruptured and exposed it's quite normal to not see much blood

So - you believe the IRA was real but muslim terrorists are all false flag?
OR is it just the events that fit your particular narrative that are false flag?

When the IRA killed MPs they were genuine targets - when a disturbed racist kills one it's a false flag?

Yes it is off-topic - but it demonstrates your biases

 

[Edwin]

Can we please please please make an effort and confine ALL the conspiracy theories to a separate thread. I'm pretty sure this one will get shut otherwise, and then what we all talk about?

Keeping them in their own thread also allows people to skip it if they want, so two benefits in one.

 

[BREWSTERS]

I overheard parts of an exchange about the result on the train last week, just before the vote, with one man saying something along the lines of "about time - the white people have had enough of 'em, we need our country back". Perhaps I should have interjected, but I didn't feel that either of them were the kind to be receptive to reason, let alone in public (where shaming would have only further raised the temperature and lessened their capacity for reason) so I kept quiet. But I have definitely detected an increase in racist and race-related discussion since the campaign kicked off.

I stress, that's not mainstream media telling me that, it's my own experience which I accept is only anecdote but then if we dismiss mainstream media, dismiss anecdote and dismiss social research organisations ("experts") and race organisations ("vested interests"), then what do we have left?

Racism is a base instinct. It's always lurking just below the surface and unscrupulous politicians (esp UKIP) and newspapers (esp Daily Mail and Daily Express) know how to exploit it for personal gain, whether to divide and conquer or stoke outrage. Outrage sells. Their behaviour throughout the referendum campaign has been abominable.

I'm don't deny that it goes on, I witness verbal racism because my flat is in a town centre, right next to the Asian area. The mosque adjoins our car park. They are great neighbours to have. But on a Friday or Saturday night I'll occasionally hear racist abuse as piss-heads are walking home late. White trash. I can say that 'cos I is white.

I think that because racism is such a taboo topic, that it doesn't get discussed as openly as it could. Political correctness is actually a divisive system which fosters stronger feelings. It needs winding back a bit so people are free to express how they feel instead of bottling them up until they burst.

 

[bonusmedia]

Fine. I'm sorry for raking over it - but I did so because Brewsters is claiming that the increase in racist abuse doesn't actually exist -which is itself a conspiracy theory - and people are agreeing with him. His objectivity is pretty clearly questionable.

 

[Toonz]

Like with every scam, what you can't see is as important as what you can.
I don't see proportionate grieving (or any!) from the family less than two days after the worst event of their lives. Body language is harder to fake than words are.
I don't see any independent footage or cctv before, during or after the event.
I don't see any blood on pictures taken at the scene (stabbed several times and shot 3 times...no blood!)

And what we do see;
Accused's name plastered all over the media within hours, and a day before he was charged (illegal).
Closely followed by a full backstory telling of strong right-wing behaviour (none of which is backed up by anyone who knows him).
A typed, 17yo receipt for extremist material (produced within two hours the guys name being put out) by a US organisation. Seriously...just think about that, how in the world could that be possible?
Remain camp party leaders up in Yorkshire the next day (no leave campaign leaders though).
Accused taken to Westminster for pre-trial hearing (no courts in Yorkshire?) presided over by the same magistrate who lead the pre-trial hearing for the Lee Rigby accused. And who cancelled the trial for the paedo Lord Janner.
For all intents and purposes the media has it all wrapped up and nicely packaged....you don't need to look any further!

Something you all look out for with false flag events, is when the media use the line "here's what we know". It's a subtle but powerful way of brainwashing into making people accept what they say, without question.

I could go on but this is seriously off-topic now.




I grew up while the IRA were bombing Britain, so I know the difference between genuine terrorism, and manufactured-to-promote-an-agenda terrorism.

Do you believe that ISIS is a genuine terrorist organisation of fanatical religious extremists? Even the US government admits they fund it.

One way to tell the difference between genuine and manucatured terror, is to compare the type of targets.

---------------------------------------------

Anyway, back to Brexit.

To think, they do all that, carry out a false flag assassination in broad daylight with all the risks that come with it, when they could have just rigged the vote for Remain...

EDIT: Sorry Edwin, only just saw your post. I agree. Will leave it at that.

 

[bonusmedia]

I'm don't deny that it goes on, I witness verbal racism because my flat is in a town centre, right next to the Asian area. The mosque adjoins our car park. They are great neighbours to have. But on a Friday or Saturday night I'll occasionally hear racist abuse as piss-heads are walking home late. White trash. I can say that 'cos I is white.

I think that because racism is such a taboo topic, that it doesn't get discussed as openly as it could. Political correctness is actually a divisive system which fosters stronger feelings. It needs winding back a bit so people are free to express how they feel instead of bottling them up until they burst.

Oh come on - you think we should let people be a bit racist to stop them being really racist?
How about we confront prejudice and discrimination at every turn until it is no longer acceptable?

If racism is a taboo topic it is because it makes closet racists uncomfortable - many feel the need to dismiss any questioning of their prejudice as 'playing the race card'.

People can and do change their attitudes and behaviour according to what is socially acceptable.

Drinking and driving used to be tolerated, even socially encouraged. Now the opposite is true.

Lots of older people still feel prejudiced towards homosexuals, but in the last 20-30 years discrimination and abuse has fallen off because it has been made clear it is not acceptable.

Sexual abuse used to be swept under the rug as a matter of routine.

Women's position in society has been transformed in the last 50 years.

We don't just have to accept the worst of humanity.

 

[BREWSTERS]

It is mind-bogglingly arrogant to suggest that you can judge whether a family is grieving based on their body language in 10 second video clips.

Here's 5 minutes, judge for yourself.

Have you considered that there may not be CCTV footage because it's a small town in Yorkshire that doesn't have cameras everywhere?

Every town centre has them. We have more per km2 than anywhere in the world.

Are you a medical expert? Unless an artery or vein is ruptured and exposed it's quite normal to not see much blood

No, but my girlfriend is, of 25 years. Working in Glasgow she's seen more stabbings than most have. And I used to be a butcher for 13 years so I've had and seen my fair share of cuts. On top of which I used to shoot for Britain so I know what damage can be done with a gun.

So - you believe the IRA was real but muslim terrorists are all false flag?
OR is it just the events that fit your particular narrative that are false flag?

When the IRA killed MPs they were genuine targets - when a disturbed racist kills one it's a false flag?

When a disturbed racist does kill one, I'll consider it.[/QUOTE]

 

[bonusmedia]

Here's 5 minutes, judge for yourself.

I hope you never have to put on a brave face when your world has just fallen apart.

Anyway, that's me done for today - I feel physically sick

 

[BREWSTERS]

Can we please please please make an effort and confine ALL the conspiracy theories to a separate thread. I'm pretty sure this one will get shut otherwise, and then what we all talk about?

Keeping them in their own thread also allows people to skip it if they want, so two benefits in one.

Fair comment - I'll stick to topic.

 

[VSC]

Interesting thoughts coming out of Australia ...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-...-urgent-review-of-brexit-implications/7546890
ends on the fear that if France go further to the right and elect Marine Le Pen, could make the continent unstable considering her "admiration" for Putin (and the 11 million Euro bank loans!)

 

[VSC]

Interesting points of view from the Commonwealth Journal of International Affairs
http://www.commonwealthroundtable.c...asia/united-kingdom/brexit-next-commonwealth/

 

[Toonz]

National Front leader Marine Le Pen has called the UK's Brexit vote "the most important moment since the fall of the Berlin Wall".

Speaking to BBC Newsnight, the far-right leader said her party has been given a boost by the result.

A number of other far-right leaders in Europe say they would like to hold their own referendums on EU membership.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36653381

Economic shocks and the rise of the far right. What could possibly go wrong?