Unrealistic User Valued Domains

[markb]

Hi All,

Just wondering if anyone else thought many domain owners (not domainers) have unrealistic values they have given their domains.

Im talking about some people who have registered their domain in the 90's and never got round to doing anything with it. I contacted a few recently with decent names and have offered them around £50K, only to be told that they have plans to develop (even though theyve owned them for 10+ years), but would sell for high xxx,xxxx or if they received an offer they couldnt refuse.

I know some UK domains have fetched good prices in the past 5 years, but I do think many people over value their own domains, which may end up with them losing out if they hold on to the domains too long.


Maybe part of the reason these people value their domains so much is probably because of the large number of domainers contacting them making them offers for their domains


Mark

 

[rob]

What is your best name and what would you take for it?

 

[markb]

What is your best name and what would you take for it?

I wont accept accept less than 7 figures for any of my domains. I pulled that figure out of thin air too. Yes, I do understand your point by this comment, but any domains I buy or own are purely for development purposes to get the most money out of them, not to sit on them and expect an amazing offer for a domain with no website. I do understand many people see domains as purely an investment with no plan to do anything with them. Its a bit like buying an amazing £20 Million painting and then storing it under the floorboards, rather than displaying it on your wall.

 

[doodlebug]

There's a lot of dreamers out there, I price my domains at reasonable end user prices and if someone buys one nice but I wouldn't try to get them to pay ridiculous prices.

As for holding onto them for too long, some examples, a domain investment group have owned cdplayer.co.uk and cdplayers.co.uk for years but wanted silly money and who's going to buy them now ? probably no one unless at a cheap price.

Another was 2009.org.uk, don't know how much the owner was asking but it never got sold.

 

[markb]

There's a lot of dreamers out there, I price my domains at reasonable end user prices and if someone buys one nice but I wouldn't try to get them to pay ridiculous prices.

As for holding onto them for too long, some examples, a domain investment group have owned cdplayer.co.uk and cdplayers.co.uk for years but wanted silly money and who's going to buy them now ? probably no one unless at a cheap price.

Another was 2009.org.uk, don't know how much the owner was asking but it never got sold.

I suppose domains relating to technology like cdplayers, laptops, desktops etc.. can have a short shelve life if they are eventually replaced by newer technology. Its probably best to own generic domain names that wont go out of popularity.

I think what im getting at, is, if you look at the top sales for uk domain names below, you will notice there are only a few which sold for £100,000 or more and they where mainly sold in 2009 or before. Yet everyone with a premium domain thinks they are worth mid 6 figures and that the value is only going to increase.

www.domainprices.co.uk

 

[accelerator]

As you've said, some hold domains as investments, and they may not want to sell a domain at a given point. What could be a realistic price to one domainer, won't be realistic to another. I'd try not to let it get to you. As you say, particularly with the technology names, there can be real risks with holding the domain too long if the tech scenario changes.

Rgds

 

[mark]

A few people think "markb" is me - just to clarify it isn't, I'm the user "mark"

 

[markb]

In my experience, unrealistic prices are fuelled by three things. The previous sale of a domain/s for an unrealistic price which leads to the belief that every domain is worth five figures minimum and often helped by reason two which is financial success giving the registrant the luxury of holding out for the figure they believe the domain to be worth and finally in the case of many domainers, it's fuelled by obsessive addiction.

Yes I think your right there, also because a domain name is a unique/rare asset, i.e. every domain is different, people think they can ask a high price which reflects this. Its hard to put a value on a domain, as it is unique. Unlike a prestige car where thousands are made, and the prices they sell for are similar.

A few people think "markb" is me - just to clarify it isn't, I'm the user "mark"

Which people? Nobody has contacted me. Are you getting pm's or emails ?

 

[mark]

Which people? Nobody has contacted me. Are you getting pm's or emails ?

People who know me assumed it was me - enough people assumed that for me to make a comment here to confirm I'm not you, and you're not me

What does the "B" stand for out of interest, as your surname doesn't begin with a B?

 

[Pred]

@ mark & markb

why don't you both add an avatar, so you're easier to differentiate?

 

[doodlebug]

@ mark & markb

why don't you both add an avatar, so you're easier to differentiate?

Or mutate into a single person

Or you could be the Mark's brothers

Good idea Pred both have a different Teletubbie or would that get confusing ?

We would be like 'et oh'

 

[domainseller200]

Unrealistic means different things to different people

99% of Joe Bloggs types think paying more than £10 for a domain is unrealistic

There is no such thing as unrealistic - just an individual persons perception of realistic

 

[richrf]

When it comes to real estate, I understand the concept of "unrealistic" because there is a transparent marketplace where all transactions are reported and there is a large enough inventory on most types of realty so that it is possible to make an appraisal.

But what does it mean to be unrealistic when it comes to rare art, coins, comic books, or domains? In 2010 the art world went into a deep depression but someone still paid over $100 million for a Picasso. I am sure many people thought that this was unrealistic. In this case, unrealistic seems to mean that it is more than what any given buyer thinks that they would pay for it.

I've watched domain transactions for some time now and there are always "surprise" transactions. Sometimes a domain sells for much less than expected and sometimes much less. When it comes to rare assets of any type, it is a matter of how much a given buyer desires that particular asset. It is a number plucked out of thin air by a human being.

I have a premium domain, and no one, absolutely no one, has any idea of how to price it. Do you know what everyone asks? How much do you want for it? And do you know how much I get? What someone wants to pay for it.

Basically a buyer will look at the name and consider: 1) Is this name what I want to use to brand my business? 2) What are the alternatives? 3) How much money will I save in marketing and promotion costs if I use a short memorable name rather than a gogglygook name? etc.

And if I can't sell the name, then I will hold on to it and monetize it. That is what most homeowners are doing with their properties nowadays who can't sell it on the open market. This is the nature of business transactions.

 

[denchomsky]

A classic case recently is the transfer fees of Fernando Torres and Andy Carrol, Liverpool sold Fernando Torres for £50mil, then bought Andy Carrol for £35mil.

They would never have paid 35mil for Andy carrol if they hadn't got 50mil for Torres, Liverpool needed to replace Torres, they wanted Carrol so they gave Newcastle what they wanted.

Andy Carrol's high valuation was probably affected byt the sale of Darren Bent who sold for 24mil.

All these prices are unrealistic but the seller got the price that player was worth to the buyer at that moment in time.

 

[richrf]

A classic case recently is the transfer fees of Fernando Torres and Andy Carrol, Liverpool sold Fernando Torres for £50mil, then bought Andy Carrol for £35mil.

They would never have paid 35mil for Andy carrol if they hadn't got 50mil for Torres, Liverpool needed to replace Torres, they wanted Carrol so they gave Newcastle what they wanted.

Andy Carrol's high valuation was probably affected byt the sale of Darren Bent who sold for 24mil.

All these prices are unrealistic but the seller got the price that player was worth to the buyer at that moment in time.

It is a game people play. Some people want the most expensive piece of real estate in a neighborhood. They have the money and that is what they want. When it comes to rare assets, all sense of valuation just breaks down. When it comes to domain names, there are some metrics that can be used to determine the value of a domain name, but it definitely gets fuzzier as the name becomes rarer.

 

[Bailey]

Some good comments made in this thread - As always by the people that are most active and successful in the market.

Even after 11 years in domains (no developments outside the first couple of years. I still find it disappointing that some can't come to grips with different investment models.

I love 'the head-wall bangers' for their tenacity - (they exist on both sides) but mostly for entertainment value. I do understand how my (or anothers) model wouldn't suit everyone but after spending much time working with Gtlds and virtually ignoring my cctld holdings. I have to say it's a real blast to to become active in the UK namespace (thankyou Acorn) and It's like living in a foreign country at times.

The Global market understands market forces without question or righteousness. Those that remember the good-times at DomainState (rest in piece) understood that the two markets (top-level and country-level) are not fundementally different. but I have learnt that the player pool does seem to be quite diluted at .co.uk level.

I wonder just how much time some at Acorn have actually spent in the GTLD market - it's not a critisim but an obersvation - the closest analogy I can place is like visiting a developed world against a third-world country at times. I don't see that as necessarily detrimental just occasionally novel, and far,far too entertaining to walk away from.

 

[TinkyWinky]

both have a different Teletubbie

No you don't... then people would think you were me... if it was the purple handbag clutching one you chose for your avatar!

On topic

There's plenty of people that think they will get silly prices for their domains - i.e. in some cases more than £1000, but then there's a lot of people that are very realistic in their aims.

The value of a domain will also depend somewhat on what the owners needs are. What I mean by this is whether selling domains is their main business model. i.e. is there a need to sell.

Most of the time I price my domains reasonably high as I have no need to sell anything as I am lucky enough not to need to sell a certain number of domains per month as my business model.

I get it a bit wrong sometimes - as many do - but then I lose a sale and look a bit of a twat for 10 minutes... until someone comes along that pays the bit extra that I was asking for

So age old adage - domains will always be worth what the next buyer is willing to pay.

However, in the context of this thread - relatively speaking, there are very few £xxx,xxx domains out there and not 'that' many £xx,xxx domains when you consider how many .co.uk's regs there are.

So I, along with many others no doubt, must have seen a very high percentage of the £xx,xxx domains

TW

 

[richrf]

The value of a domain will also depend somewhat on what the owners needs are. What I mean by this is whether selling domains is their main business model. i.e. is there a need to sell.

TW

I agree. Some domain buyers may want 10% annual return on their investment while others may be totally fine with 5%. If a seller is making 10% and wants to wait for a buyer who is willing to provide a higher valuation because the buyer would be satisfied with 5% then that is certainly quite appropriate.

Rich

 

[DomainManagement]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

Prices are what prices are

what attracts more attention a page 1 site for sale or a domain name for sale

what would you pay more for and why , then think about it ,
there`s no right way and no wrong way if it works

each man or women makes a mark in the own way ,and that what makes a person a individual

there`s a lot who like collecting here each has there own reason

Dont try and make sense of what others are doing follow the courage to do you own thing if you think its right

Mark . Mark b one of my middle names is Mark

i like the the tele tubby solution who is going to be tinky winky

 

[wb]

I agree. Some domain buyers may want 10% annual return on their investment while others may be totally fine with 5%.

And many others including myself aim for way more than 10%

i like the the tele tubby solution who is going to be tinky winky

I think username 'TinkyWinky' is best suited for that one