Change for changes sake

[BREWSTERS]

Things like this really make my blood boil;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14974552

Almost half a billion quid wasted...who comes up with these barmpot ideas in the first place? Think what could be done with that kind of money? They could start by paying firefighters a realistic wage for a start.

This is right up there with the Scottish Parliament building - Edinburgh trams - Millenium Dome...yep, Labour sure know how to piss money up the wall!

 

[peter_w]

And let's not forget the £7bn or so wasted on part of the new NHS computer system that was subsequently scrapped.

 

[BREWSTERS]

And let's not forget the £7bn or so wasted on part of the new NHS computer system that was subsequently scrapped.

Really? Jeez - some people have got very rich through all this crap!

 

[Pred]

it kills me
its OUR money ffs too, they forget that

and they would not listen to the firefighters and control staff who told them no, its nuts

when we talk about making blood boil, the fact nurses and nhs staff have to PAY to park at work fucking makes me livid, it comes direct out their pay

do police, fireman, politicians etc have to PAY to park at work?
of course not, nor should they ever have to

whoever thought up this evil scheme and took this money out of hardworking nurses pockets who get less than what they deserve and can live on needs stringing up

rant over

 

[peter_w]

Really? Jeez - some people have got very rich through all this crap!

My mistake. It was £11.4bn.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...s-the-plug-on-its-11bn-it-system-2330906.html

 

[BREWSTERS]

it kills me
its OUR money ffs too, they forget that

and they would not listen to the firefighters and control staff who told them no, its nuts

when we talk about making blood boil, the fact nurses and nhs staff have to PAY to park at work fucking makes me livid, it comes direct out their pay

do police, fireman, politicians etc have to PAY to park at work?
of course not, nor should they ever have to

whoever thought up this evil scheme and took this money out of hardworking nurses pockets who get less than what they deserve and can live on needs stringing up

rant over

I read somewhere that an American company owns and runs hospital car parks - they were sold off or leased to them about 12 years ago, I think. I'll try and find where I saw it.

 

[diablo]

"Public bodies have been paying as little as £350 and as much as £2,000 for the same laptop. Prices paid for identical printer cartridges varied from £85 to £240."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/8553289/Promise-of-10-billion-savings-from-stationery.html

 

[BREWSTERS]

My mistake. It was £11.4bn.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...s-the-plug-on-its-11bn-it-system-2330906.html

Ouch!

 

[diablo]

I read somewhere that an American company owns and runs hospital car parks - they were sold off or leased to them about 12 years ago, I think. I'll try and find where I saw it.

Not in Scotland - NHS hospital car parks are free.

 

[denchomsky]

Not in Scotland - NHS hospital car parks are free.

Wonder how they can afford to do that, along with free prescriptions and free education

 

[denchomsky]

Really? Jeez - some people have got very rich through all this crap!

Accenture.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Whether the original idea was flawed is debatable. There were some genuine reasons in mind for attempting the project.

I wouldn't say the money has been entirely wasted. Nine buildings have been built as a result and they will have command some resale or rental value.

The trouble when deciding to mothball any project, is that money will have had to have been spent up until that point. A dropcatcher could plough many £thousands into systems, and programming, but still not catch any decent domain names. It cost them to find that out but it's an expected cost and, in my opinion, unfair to call that cost a waste.

You're defending something that even the people involved have decided wasn't worth carrying on with.
With such large amounts of money involved, things ought to have been thought through better.
Your analogy of setting up a dropcatching system isn't valid - this fire-centre-monkey-business didn't get to the stage of a practical test...therefore, whatever lead them to cease could've been identified further back.

Fire Brigade member salaries listed here. I think many people would find these salaries attractive, particularly given it is shift work with a good number of rest days (I've read 4 elsewhere). Enough time to take a second, part time job, for extra money.

Not so good when compared to a teachers wages and hours.

Also note the use of a .me.uk domain name.

I've previously been told by an applicant how difficult it is to join the Fire Brigade at least in one particular area because of significant interest in the job..

 

[denchomsky]

As said in a previous post, the idea is the easy part, actually making it work is the hard part.

I have worked alongside some of these big consultancies that get these contracts, and believe me a lot of them are graduates right out of uni, learning on the job.

To plan and implement these systems over a long development period must be very difficult, but there are people out their that can do this, unfortunately the people who make the decision to employ them often don't understand the work themselves, so are incapable of employing the right people or noticing when things are going badly wrong.

 

[BREWSTERS]

I said: Whether the original idea was flawed is debatable. There were some genuine reasons in mind for attempting the project.

I don't know if I can elaborate on this other than repeating it in a different way. Clearly there were reasons, which would have been genuine behind the project or the project would not have been conceived.

Yep - I agree that there might have been compelling reasons to look into it; but to get to the stage where the buildings and hardware were in place and then to pull the plug...would it have got to that if it were their own money at risk. I'm sure we all say a resounding 'no' to that.

Yes, that is quite possibly something I would agree with. However, what I don't know is why the project failed as it did. There is likely to have been a multitude of reasons for the failure.



Dropcatching isn't supposed to be a direct analogy and is only used to demonstrate that just because a project fails doesn't mean that money has been wasted.

I'd be surprised if the 9 buildings didn't contribute significantly to the overall spend. If land acquisition and construction could be instant, then this probably wouldn't have been the case because the land could have been purchased and the buildings could have been constructed the day before moving in. Obviously not possible.

Your "whatever lead them to cease" point is critical because it appears that you, and certainly I, probably don't currently know what "whatever" was. I presume there were many contributatory factors.

No argument on these points.

What do you think teachers get paid? I grew up living with two and although they get longer holidays, I was forever seeing my mother working well into many evenings with piles of infant school work all over the house. £28k, once trained, overtime allowances and a favourable shift pattern which gives 4 days off after 2 day shifts and 2 night shifts (correct me if I am wrong someone) seems quite favourable compared to a large number of jobs I am familiar with. This probably explains why the Fire Service doesn't appear to have any shortage of applicants. If the job was so bad, wouldn't people do something else?

Don't want to 'diss' your parents, but I've never felt relieved to see a teacher; nor do I rush to get out of their way when one is rushing to their work.

Most other jobs where your life is on the line are remunerated much better than firemen.

Being a teacher - whilst not an occupation that I would ever want to pursue, is a bit cushy. I count 7 teachers and ex-teachers amongst my relatives - it seems to be more of a lifestyle choice than anything else.

 

[BREWSTERS]

As said in a previous post, the idea is the easy part, actually making it work is the hard part.

I have worked alongside some of these big consultancies that get these contracts, and believe me a lot of them are graduates right out of uni, learning on the job.

To plan and implement these systems over a long development period must be very difficult, but there are people out their that can do this, unfortunately the people who make the decision to employ them often don't understand the work themselves, so are incapable of employing the right people or noticing when things are going badly wrong.

The same people who allocate these posts probably wouldn't trust those people with their car, but millions of taxpayers money...no problem!

 

[cc976a]

Whatever the case or arguments may be whenever anyone is running a project or programme (of projects) at each stage the business case must be reviewed to ensure there still is one.

Whatever the project may be, to spend £500m just to see if viable is a damn waste of money.

Consultancy is now one of the biggest overheads of some major businesses, in some cases more than actual employees, of which the consultants goal is to keep money pouring in for their own businesses. For someone to take a recent look and judge it a waste of money with no future just proves either no-one was monitoring this project and consultants/service providers just keep going or whoever was were totally incapable.

This one has come to light, how many more useless projects and waste of tpm is being squandered?

 

[diablo]

Wonder how they can afford to do that, along with free prescriptions and free education

It's a matter of spending priorities. Unlike Westminster, the Scottish Parliament has a fixed sum to spend. It cannot borrow more money or raise taxes.

90% of prescriptions dispensed in England are free too. So no need to roll your eyes.

 

[BREWSTERS]

It's a matter of spending priorities. Unlike Westminster, the Scottish Parliament has a fixed sum to spend. It cannot borrow more money or raise taxes.

90% of prescriptions dispensed in England are free too. So no need to roll your eyes.

Without wishing to get into an argument on this...
* the Scottish Parliament building - 1000%+ over budget
* spending per capita - England = £4800 Scotland = £6100

It would seem like the money given to Scotland to spend could be brought into line with those who subsidise it.

 

[diablo]

Without wishing to get into an argument on this...
* the Scottish Parliament building - 1000%+ over budget
* spending per capita - England = £4800 Scotland = £6100

It would seem like the money given to Scotland to spend could be brought into line with those who subsidise it.

I wasn't personally responsible for the overspend on the Scottish Parliament building no moe than you are responsible for all the Government waste in England so your argument isn't with me anyway!

Your spending per capita figures are also woefully out of date. If only they were that low.

Scotland £10,212 versus £8,588 England according to latest figures from HM Treasury, but such headline figures are completely misleading anyway.

For example, spending per capita in London was £10,256. You seem to be suggesting that everyone in England is subsidising everyone in Scotland. That isn't true any more than saying that Scotland subsidises London. There are rich areas in Scotland and poor areas in England. There are people living on your street who "subsidise" others living on your street.

 

[BREWSTERS]

I see what you're saying, but the facts are, that Scotland is subsidised by England and as a result, Scotland enjoys some benefits that we don't get in England.

This is all off topic, but my last on the Scot/Eng thing is education. Why is it that a foreign student going to a Scottish Uni has to pay c.£3250 but an English student going to the same Scottish Uni will have to pay $9000? I cannot see how anyone can explain that as being right.

BTW, I love Scotland and have never met a Scot that I didn't like.

.......................

Back on topic - seems we're not alone; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14997843