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DL Sale: paydaylender.co.uk (300 GBP)

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Seller made out like a bandit on this one, imo it wasn't worth reg fee. I don't think 'payday lender' as a phrase could be added to a consumer credit license as an affiliate, and it doesn't look to me to be a domain an actual lender would have any interest in at all. If neither of those 2 groups can use it for anything, then its effectively worthless.
 
Looks like it was bought for £650 a couple of years ago - sign of the market?
 
I'm the seller and I think it's cheap lol. think it's good for lenders review, comparison site. memorable and plenty of searches on exact match even if bonus in not as big anymore.
 
I'm the seller and I think it's cheap lol. think it's good for lenders review, comparison site. memorable and plenty of searches on exact match even if bonus in not as big anymore.

Ah right, I didn't realise the seller was on here :)

We've had some run ins with our CCL and brand names that are acceptable or not in the past. imho, I don't think the buyer is going to be able to get 'payday lender' added as a CCL name because they are going to say it gives the impression you are a lender, when you aren't. I reckon you could perhaps get the plural on as you can say its obviously a list of lenders... but the singular term is going to be hard I think. You might get lucky I suppose... just like a Google reinclusion request it all depends who's desk it lands on though.

When the CCL thing switches over soon they are going to crack down (this was told to me by multiple separate sources in the industry) and I think domains like this are going to be left out in the cold. If you're refused a CCL for it, then no lender is going to be able to risk taking leads from you.

If you're holding any more domains like this I'd suggest offloading them asap... it definitely wasn't cheap at £300 and if there are any more suckers around you might as well take their money and run :D
 
There are a huge number of companies running Adwords ads against the term, several of which already include "payday" as part of their URL.

Why can't one of those existing advertisers use the paydaylender.co.uk URL in a campaign to improve their CTR? It's a very pricy term to bid on, so even a small improvement could pay big dividends.

(I assume some if not all of those advertisers must already have cleared the hurdles being discussed in this thread in order to advertise in the way they are.)
 
There are a huge number of companies running Adwords ads against the term, several of which already include "payday" as part of their URL.

Why can't one of those existing advertisers use the paydaylender.co.uk URL in a campaign to improve their CTR? It's a very pricy term to bid on, so even a small improvement could pay big dividends.

(I assume some if not all of those advertisers must already have cleared the hurdles being discussed in this thread in order to advertise in the way they are.)

Because a real lender bidding on that term would be better off sending the traffic straight to their already known brand - it'll get a better CTR and convert better.

Affiliates bidding on that term would need a CCL to actually use the url.... I don't believe they will be able to get this. Google actually police use of CCL's in paid ads, so it would be hard to get around this even if they can find a rogue lender / network willing to purchase the leads.
 
but if it's just a lender comparison site or a review site, that doesn't actually take leads just sends traffic to affiliate links, banners, it will not require a CCL?
 
Here are the companies advertising against the term right now:
paydayuk.co.uk
sunny.co.uk
ferratum.co.uk
moneyshop.tv
mrlender.com
quickquid.co.uk
prontopaydays.com
lauralends.co.uk
heartpaydays.com
wagedayadvance.co.uk
vivaloans.co.uk
bizzyloans.co.uk

Now some of the above may or may not be affiliates, but either way I'd suggest very very few are "familiar" enough to a given random payday loan-seeker to get a "brand boost" from sending traffic to their branded URL. Not when contrasted with a search on "payday lender" showing up an ad for "paydaylender.co.uk" where the URL will automatically be fully bolded by Google's algorithm, anyway...

At a pinch, I've maybe vaguely heard of one or two - and payday loans is a space I've done quite a lot of Googling in over the years because of the high value of the traffic in that sector.
 
but if it's just a lender comparison site or a review site, that doesn't actually take leads just sends traffic to affiliate links, banners, it will not require a CCL?

It is going to be hard, to the point its bordering on impossible, to create that site in a way that wouldn't require a CCL. We've been told in the past any sort of comparison counts as advice = ccl needed. Though you could ask 5 different 'experts' and get at least 3 different opinions...

Here are the companies advertising against the term right now:
paydayuk.co.uk
sunny.co.uk
ferratum.co.uk
moneyshop.tv
mrlender.com
quickquid.co.uk
prontopaydays.com
lauralends.co.uk
heartpaydays.com
wagedayadvance.co.uk
vivaloans.co.uk
bizzyloans.co.uk

Now some of the above may or may not be affiliates, but either way I'd suggest very very few are "familiar" enough to a given random payday loan-seeker to get a "brand boost" from sending traffic to their branded URL. Not when contrasted with a search on "payday lender" showing up an ad for "paydaylender.co.uk" where the URL will automatically be fully bolded by Google's algorithm, anyway...

At a pinch, I've maybe vaguely heard of one or two - and payday loans is a space I've done quite a lot of Googling in over the years because of the high value of the traffic in that sector.

At least 6 of the ones you listed above, advertise on TV. There is no way anyone spending big like that, would be interested in sending traffic anywhere other than to their branded site.

paydayuk.co.uk - huge, legitimate lender. Massive TV and offline budget.
sunny.co.uk - real lender spending a fair bit of money trying to brand around "sunny". zero chance they want to send traffic to some random domain
ferratum.co.uk - legit lender, presence in 20+ countries
moneyshop.tv - legit lender, tv advertiser, large offline stores etc
mrlender.com - genuine lender
quickquid.co.uk - huge, legitimate lender. Massive TV and offline budget.
prontopaydays.com - affiliate pretending to be a lender. Can't get around the CCL issue
lauralends.co.uk - real lender
heartpaydays.com - never heard of this one and don't have the time to research it, but "Although we do approve 99.8% of applicants," screams out that all is not as it seems. Likely a scammy affiliate pretending to be a lender. There is simply no way anyone can have a 99.8% approval rate.
wagedayadvance.co.uk - real lender, established 10+ years
vivaloans.co.uk - no idea what is going on here but 99.8% approval rate again...
bizzyloans.co.uk - affiliate. CCL issues


Also, some of the above aren't even targeting 'payday lender'. They're showing up on broad match because of the word 'payday'.

So, who from the list would you say is a good fit to use this domain? They still fall into the 2 groups I said in my first post - affiliates who can't use it, and lenders who wouldn't want to.

Even if lenders aren't well known currently, they need to work towards that. It would be madness for them to deliberately harm their branding efforts by using a £300 domain for their ppc traffic surely?
 
Even if lenders aren't well known currently, they need to work towards that. It would be madness for them to deliberately harm their branding efforts by using a £300 domain for their ppc traffic surely?

Why? Are they after a "brand" or are they after actual customers and a decent profit?

Payday lending isn't like Coca Cola vs Pepsi - most people don't have any need for or interest in the sector. So if they can save money on converting a "drive by" visitor to Google into a customer, why wouldn't they?

There's far too much focus on "branding" generally, perhaps because it's something nice and nebulous and expensive so marketing/advertising agencies can justify their hefty fees. If you're in an industry where none of the players are "household names" then becoming a household name need not be an ambition.

Remember, in many niches and markets, for every "educated" potential customer that comes with a strong knowledge of the sector and of the main players in it, there could be dozens or hundreds who know what they want but don't know who supplies it (because they've not looked for that product/service before, because it's not something where brand played a big part, etc. etc.)

You can test this very easily (so long as you're willing to make the test "fair" in your genuine choice of "unknown" niche): pick any subject that you have no prior familiarity with, then try and name the top few companies in that market. Chances are, you won't even be able to name one.

For example (these are off the top of my head, and should only be chosen if you have no idea about the sector)
- scuba diving equipment
- horse riding accessories
- electric bikes
- metal detectors
- emissions testing services
- protein supplements
- acoustic insulation

For every one of the niches above and thousands more, there will be numerous companies competing for business - yet none are likely to be "household names". Sure, you can acquire that knowledge yourself if you're willing to make the effort to bone up on the subject ahead of time, but that's not what we're talking about here. For every patient shopper there is an impatient consumer who knows A) they have a need and B) they want that need filled NOW.

The following are worth a quick read...
http://joshkaufman.net/branding-overrated-buzzword/
http://thefastgrowthblog.com/2011/04/25/branding-is-crap/
http://thefastgrowthblog.com/2012/05/30/branding-is-overrated/
http://www.slideshare.net/augustinefou/mythbusting-advertising-by-dr-augustine-fou
http://www.clickz.com/clickz/column...ts-ineffective-irrelevant-irritating-impotent
 
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Edwin you now appear to be either guessing, or just making stuff up :lol:

"Payday lending isn't like Coca Cola vs Pepsi - most people don't have any need for or interest in the sector." - this is simply not true at all. An average payday loan consumer isn't a one hit and done person, like say buying some oak furniture or having laser eye surgery. They're going to take several loans over the course of the year.

They might have been turned down for loans in the past, they might have been particularly impressed by how fast someone else paid them out. They might have defaulted on a loan with one company and got blacklisted, or any other reason why they particularly like or dislike any one of the lenders. So they are brand sensitive.

If what you were saying was in any way true.... why aren't any of the big lenders doing what you're suggesting? Paydayloans.co.uk could have been bought for pennies in comparison to what these guys are spending on tv and ppc budgets. Obviously every other good but not category killing domain below this one could have been had for less. I own a bunch of them.... I've had one single enquiry from a legitimate lender, on one single domain, in the last few years.

My old business model of developing exact match domains with minimal effort was in the toilet for a year or so. Google then decided to finally flush that turd for good. It just no longer works... you're going to spend more than you're generating. Your business model of selling lower end emd's is also finished too - time to get off that sinking ship... when it comes down to it if I can no longer develop average emd's at a profit, then you can't sell them for the prices you're asking.

The game has moved on. Domains that I developed, ones you sell, and this one which just sold for £300 are absolutely worthless today. The quicker everyone realises that, the less money you're going to lose in the transition process. Unfortunately I'm speaking from a position of experience here and a rather large 6 figure loss on the whole EMD mess :lol:
 
Developing far higher quality projects and far less of them has to be the way forward. The days of buying 20 emd's in 14 different high value niches and having them all on page 1 at once with very little effort, is long gone. Off down the marina for a bite to eat, its an interesting question though and one I'll answer in more detail this evening :)
 
Seller made out like a bandit on this one, imo it wasn't worth reg fee. I don't think 'payday lender' as a phrase could be added to a consumer credit license as an affiliate, and it doesn't look to me to be a domain an actual lender would have any interest in at all. If neither of those 2 groups can use it for anything, then its effectively worthless.

But surely at this level, the domain owner would be classed as a broker at best, a CCL for that is about £600 is it not, so for some it may still be worth a punt with a smart site.
 
Developing far higher quality projects and far less of them has to be the way forward. The days of buying 20 emd's in 14 different high value niches and having them all on page 1 at once with very little effort, is long gone. Off down the marina for a bite to eat, its an interesting question though and one I'll answer in more detail this evening :)

What niches do you now operate in? Obviously Monkey.com but would be interested in knowing what other industries you have skin in.
 
But surely at this level, the domain owner would be classed as a broker at best, a CCL for that is about £600 is it not, so for some it may still be worth a punt with a smart site.

My point is that the ccl app will be refused as the domain gives the impression u are a lender. Smart site or not, it's worthless if you can't sell your leads.
 
How do you see the future and how are you moving forward?


In the past, it was easy to buy an EMD on a non premium domain extension, throw a quick site on it and then buy links like they were going out of fashion and easily rank. The quality of links didn't even matter - blogroll links, homepage links, footer links, links on dropped domains, links on off topic sites. All you needed was an account on a few spammy webmaster forums and you were sorted.

Back then, Google wasn't placing any real weight on preferring 'brands' in their rankings. They were also not really penalising people for crappy linking. Sure you'd see some penalties, but they were few and far between. They also weren't using any user metrics in their ranking algorithms. Or if they were it was so insignificant that they might as well not have bothered. And the exact match benefit was massive. Buying links was extremely simple and very very easy to scale up with a budget.... all of these things combined meant that it was now childs play to get a site ranking for a phrase of your choice. You just needed to get your hands on the exact match domain. Or rather 'an' exact match domain, you certainly didn't need the .com or the .co.uk. Picking up the .org.uk or .net for buttons worked equally well.

If you had the budget, it would have been relatively simple for 1 or 2 people to rank 20 different EMD's in completely different niches, all unrelated and chosen solely because they were high traffic and/or well paying affiliate programs. Anyone who's been online and in this biz between say 2009 - 2012 and that didn't have 100's of thousands of pounds in affiliate earnings passing through their hands is either an idiot, or wasn't taking it seriously at all. It was just so easy to rank one site, profit, roll the proceeds up into a slightly better emd, and rinse and repeat. You literally couldn't fail with an exact match domain and a link buying budget.

Today, that business model is completely finished. The days of 1 bloke sitting in his pants at home alone and ranking in 20 different high value niches is long gone, and its never coming back. All of the things like Branding, EMD benefit being slaughtered, WMT penalties flying all over the place, etc simply destroyed the business model of ranking crap sites on EMD's. Panda and Penguin were the final nails in the coffin of the sloppy, no value add web master.

I was as guilty as anyone else of abusing all of the above, probably more so. But what can you do... if you'd built a high quality site in 2011 and tried to win on content quality alone you'd have bankrupted yourself as all your rankings and income would have been taken by the 16 year old living down the street, with a site built on a free WP template, content written by an Indian, and giving himself RSI clicking stuff in his text link ads account.

So now, the game has moved on.

If google wants to rank brands, then the obvious answer is become a brand. I'm not suggesting you need to become a multi million pound entity, but you do need to at least be generating type in traffic, brand searches, loyal users, etc.

If Google want to penalise people for shit links, then the obvious answer is to stop building them and build quality links instead. The guy who wanted to build a great site in 2011 but kept getting overtaken by spammers, actually has a chance to thrive today.

If Google want to penalise people for building 100's or 1000's of auto generated spam pages, then the obvious answer is stop doing it. In the past there was money to be made spamming up loads of pages with 'xxxx voucher codes' from the one website. Now if you don't have the link equity you're extremely unlikely to pull that off. You're going to get wiped out very quickly. Today, if an individual page isn't adding much/anything of value then you need to do one of two things... add value or delete the page.

Right now, I think the only real way to succeed is to build a small number (maybe even 1) of high quality sites that have a legitimate use to end users. Work on generating very good user metrics. Does your site offer any real reason for users to repeatedly come back? If not, fix that asap. You need to look at stuff like offline advertising, which can inflate the number of people searching for your brand or typing in your url. Run competitions, give stuff away, work on link baits, etc.

Obviously none of the above is cheap, easy or quick. I think a lot of people who made money in years past are now going to be forced out of the game as they don’t have the skills or the resources to compete any more. It seems some people don’t want to evolve though. Anyone trying to develop a 5 word product name EMD today is retarded. Anyone trying to sell a 5 word product name EMD to some other sucker for 4 figures is bordering on being a scammer. They’re basically doing the online equivalent of charging an old lady 20 grand to clean her gutters. Yes, technically the victim agreed to the sale but they’ve been fucked in the ass because the seller knows full well the ‘customer’ is going to lose their shirt on the deal… they’re just having them over to line their own pockets. You only need to scan down the for sale sub forums in Acorn and you can see dozens that are completely undevelopable as you simply can’t do so without losing a pile of cash in the proceeds. The sellers all know this but they’re just choosing to dump then on someone else.

Look at the amount of great domains that could have been developed years ago and weren’t. Carinsurance.co.uk is a great example… the owners greed got in the way and now he’s stuck with a big massive turd that he can do nothing with. If an end user wanted it they’d have bought it years ago. They obviously didn’t, and won’t. Yet it can’t be ranked as an affiliate now. If it had been developed in 2007 I reckon the owner would have made 10 million or more in affiliate commissions. The site would have been penalised last year, but he’d have made so much more money than he could ever have sold the domain for, that that wouldn’t actually matter. Now its in a weird situation of no end users want it, and no affiliates can develop it. Its effectively worthless, unless you consider the ponzi / greater fool aspect of flipping it on to some other mug. The transition period of emd’s no longer working like they did was particularly painful for me, I lost a quarter million quid in one single transaction because of that.

Anyway I’ve sort of strayed from the original question :lol: Feel free to ask any questions but if they’re like the one above of what I’m working on now, I’m going to pass on those.
 
Monkey I think you're mostly right. I will say, generic EMD's or highly searched/high CPC EMD's still do have value, especially high CPC ones cos the general consensus is an increase in adwords CTR, but I've sold way more brandable domains recently than I have EMD's, for sure.
 
I'm starting to understand where you're coming from Monkey - and why you get so exasperated about EMDs. Ouch. Also I especially liked your car hire logo.

I only got back into the aff business at the start of 2011, and went for low volume, high(ish) quality from the start. I did well out of the spam bandits getting battered. Swings and roundabouts.

I really like good EMDs but then I never spent 6 figures on one or relied on the EMD boost that much.

Still, what doesn't kill you eh. Guessing you won't starve.
 
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