I hate......

[Marcoose]

...People who value average domains at silly prices...

... enquiring about a .co.uk domain. It's alright - nothing special. The guy wants 5k USD for it. I ask him to explain why the price is so high. He says:

- Upward search trend. Insight shows it's flat year on year.
- "High exacts". 1200 monthly searches is high?????
- $2 CPC - WOAH!
- Brandable name. Any half respectable domain is!

It just makes me wonder what idiots pay these over inflated prices and encourage these people. The annoying thing is I'm pretty sure he's not going to get this price any time soon and in the mean time I'm missing out on starting a viable business.

.....The frustrations of online business I guess.

RANT OVER

 

[websaway]

...People who value average domains at silly prices...

... enquiring about a .co.uk domain. It's alright - nothing special. The guy wants 5k USD for it. I ask him to explain why the price is so high. He says:

- Upward search trend. Insight shows it's flat year on year.
- "High exacts". 1200 monthly searches is high?????
- $2 CPC - WOAH!
- Brandable name. Any half respectable domain is!

It just makes me wonder what idiots pay these over inflated prices and encourage these people. The annoying thing is I'm pretty sure he's not going to get this price any time soon and in the mean time I'm missing out on starting a viable business.

.....The frustrations of online business I guess.

RANT OVER

It sounds roughly right to me, especially if it allows as you say "to start a viable business"

How viable ? is the big question, because this might not be overvalued to the next person who is interested, or the one after that or the one after that.

 

[Brassneck]

It just makes me wonder what idiots pay these over inflated prices and encourage these people.

Good Question - probably best to ask people like Edwin who market domains at those sort of prices.

I'm pretty disillusioned with the secondary market at the moment. I've done a fair bit of work on marketing in last few weeks and it has been a waste of effort during the course of which I have received more than my fair share of abusive replies. I actually think the secondary market might actually be smaller for UK domains than it was 3 years ago - end users are simply registering new domains rather than looking to buy from domainers.


Stephen.

 

[Marcoose]

It sounds roughly right to me, especially if it allows as you say "to start a viable business"

How viable ? is the big question, because this might not be overvalued to the next person who is interested, or the one after that or the one after that.

Obviously domains are worth what someone is willing to pay for them and I have no problem paying a fair value. Of course what one person deems to be fair is often different to what someone else thinks.

OK, with this particular domain, the hyphenated .com is for sale on SEDO for $350. It isn't a UK niche either - the global market has 10x more exacts than UK! That pretty much says it all. In fact I think he can stick my $2k where the sun don't shine and I'll develop my first ever - !

 

[websaway]

Obviously domains are worth what someone is willing to pay for them and I have no problem paying a fair value. Of course what one person deems to be fair is often different to what someone else thinks.

OK, with this particular domain, the hyphenated .com is for sale on SEDO for $350. It isn't a UK niche either - the global market has 10x more exacts than UK! That pretty much says it all. In fact I think he can stick my $2k where the sun don't shine and I'll develop my first ever - !

As I've said before domains are not necessarily worth only what someone is willing to pay. The owner of the domain can if he wishes perhaps create a decent yield from the domain. If he thinks he can make say £2000 per year from his domain with little effort then that's a massive return on investment for him and it gives the name a value.

 

[websaway]

Good Question - probably best to ask people like Edwin who market domains at those sort of prices.

I'm pretty disillusioned with the secondary market at the moment. I've done a fair bit of work on marketing in last few weeks and it has been a waste of effort during the course of which I have received more than my fair share of abusive replies. I actually think the secondary market might actually be smaller for UK domains than it was 3 years ago - end users are simply registering new domains rather than looking to buy from domainers.


Stephen.

I think marketing for domains has to be very selective ( can you imagine if a guy phoned you up and asked if you wanted to buy his 1998 vauxhall whatever, and failing that i'll throw in a ford 1996 whatever at no additional cost )
I'm not having a knock at you because there is no one size fits all, but putting names up at 3 for £10 may not help the cause.
I think domain selling is about matching product to end user, whether it moves through a middleman or not, and as Edwin has pointed out the cost of having the appropriate name which applies to the end user has to be redeemed.
And look, when your marketing domains it isn't necessarily an instant result, selective marketing can lead to a domain being sold 2 or 3 years later to the initial target.

 

[Marcoose]

As I've said before domains are not necessarily worth only what someone is willing to pay. The owner of the domain can if he wishes perhaps create a decent yield from the domain. If he thinks he can make say £2000 per year from his domain with little effort then that's a massive return on investment for him and it gives the name a value.

Yeah that's fair point. I've got no problem if someone tells me they plan to develop as they can make a nice % - it's the likes of this fella who states 1200 exacts and $2 CPC when justifying 5k.

 

[websaway]

Yeah that's fair point. I've got no problem if someone tells me they plan to develop as they can make a nice % - it's the likes of this fella who states 1200 exacts and $2 CPC when justifying 5k.

To show that it's not a question of principle, put the name up and I for one will give an honest opinion. Could be interesting.

 

[domainseller200]

Yeah that's fair point. I've got no problem if someone tells me they plan to develop as they can make a nice % - it's the likes of this fella who states 1200 exacts and $2 CPC when justifying 5k.

I have had a similar response from a very well known domain trader. I asked about a domain and they quoted me the GLOBAL exacts. I then inform them that I am only targetting the UK so the LOCAL exacts are what matters to me, to be told that I should be concentrating on the global traffic and not wasting my time on just the UK market.

The domain in question was a .co.uk and something which is predominantly a UK term.

 

[Brassneck]

I think marketing for domains has to be very selective ( can you imagine if a guy phoned you up and asked if you wanted to buy his 1998 vauxhall whatever, and failing that i'll throw in a ford 1996 whatever at no additional cost )
I'm not having a knock at you because there is no one size fits all, but putting names up at 3 for £10 may not help the cause.
I think domain selling is about matching product to end user, whether it moves through a middleman or not, and as Edwin has pointed out the cost of having the appropriate name which applies to the end user has to be redeemed.
And look, when your marketing domains it isn't necessarily an instant result, selective marketing can lead to a domain being sold 2 or 3 years later to the initial target.

I've been doing this for 10 years now and sold thousands of domains either in my bargain threads here for £2 or to end users for mid £x,xxx. I think I know how it works by now from experience.

The secondary market hardly exists in the UK, yet it does in USA and Germany. I'm sure it is about pricing, and trying to overcharge for an ordinary domain ruins it for everybody as we look like rip-off merchants. I can show plenty of emails of how people feel about us even when asking for moderate amounts for decent domains.

Stephen.

 

[domainseller200]

I've been doing this for 10 years now and sold thousands of domains either in my bargain threads here for £2 or to end users for mid £x,xxx. I think I know how it works by now from experience.

The secondary market hardly exists in the UK, yet it does in USA and Germany. I'm sure it is about pricing, and trying to overcharge for an ordinary domain ruins it for everybody as we look like rip-off merchants. I can show plenty of emails of how people feel when asking for moderate amounts for decent domains.

Stephen.

I would disagree totally - the domains you see reported German (.de) and USA (.com) are far higher than the majority of .co.uk domains sold - pricing isn't the issue at all. It is the same as everything else, the UK is years behind most countries in so many ways, and domains is one of them.

 

[Brassneck]

I would disagree totally - the domains you see reported German (.de) and USA (.com) are far higher than the majority of .co.uk domains sold - pricing isn't the issue at all. It is the same as everything else, the UK is years behind most countries in so many ways, and domains is one of them.

Yes - values for individual names are higher, but volume of transactions at all levels is several times higher.

Actually, average price of .de domains sold on sedo is lower than for .uk.

http://www.sedo.com/us/resources/market-trends/

If in the UK the price on the secondary market for a domain is either £50 or £2,000 depending on whether it is in my portfolio or Edwin's (sorry for keep using you as an example but you publicise your pricing model openly) then we are in a bit of a mess. It's not like when I get fed up and price them in the bargain basement for £5 that there are hordes of you guys trying to buy them off me.

Stephen.

PS. The UK may be behind, but I honestly think it hasn't moved in the last three years. Will we ever catch up or will the gap just stay the same.

 

[domainseller200]

Also let's put it another way.

You can buy 6 bottles of water in the £1 shop for £1
You can buy 1 bottle of the exact same water in Tesco for 59p
You can buy 1 bottle of the exact same water in Park Lane Hilton for £3

People are not forced to buy those bottles of water for any particular price, but circumstances influence their decision to purchase them or not. Anyone could argue that the £3 a bottle vendor is a 'rip off merchant' but I know for certain that if I want that exact bottle of water there and then, I don't complain to the seller to try and get it cheaper - I buy it.

How are domains any different in this context ?

 

[domainseller200]

Yes - values for individual names are higher, but volume of transactions at all levels is several times higher.

Actually, average price of .de domains sold on sedo is lower than for .uk.

http://www.sedo.com/us/resources/market-trends/

If in the UK the price on the secondary market for a domain is either £50 or £2,000 depending on whether it is in my portfolio or Edwin's (sorry for keep using you as an example but you publicise your pricing model openly) then we are in a bit of a mess. It's not like when I get fed up and price them in the bargain basement for £5 that there are hordes of you guys trying to buy them off me.

Stephen.

PS. The UK may be behind, but I honestly think it hasn't moved in the last three years. Will we ever catch up or will the gap just stay the same.

Yes but that is obviously not a true reflection either - would you honestly say that an average price of $2,496 for a .com vs $1,880 for a .co.uk in the same time period is a good representation of the market as a whole ?

The UK haven't moved in the last three years will mainly be due to the recession - this is the same for most industries including domains. The huge rise of payday loans is enough of a statistic to show anyone how much of a financial state the UK is in.

 

[Marcoose]

To show that it's not a question of principle, put the name up and I for one will give an honest opinion. Could be interesting.

PM sent

 

[Brassneck]

Yes but that is obviously not a true reflection either - would you honestly say that an average price of $2,496 for a .com vs $1,880 for a .co.uk in the same time period is a good representation of the market as a whole ?

The UK haven't moved in the last three years will mainly be due to the recession - this is the same for most industries including domains. The huge rise of payday loans is enough of a statistic to show anyone how much of a financial state the UK is in.

The average prices on their own don't tell whole story obviously.

A few more stats from

http://sedo.com/fileadmin/documents/pressdownload/Q4_2011_DomainMarketStudy_US.pdf


3 times more .de domains sold on Sedo compared to .uk.

median .de price about 2/3 rds of .uk price.


This does back up what we have all discussed before, that .uk domains sell well at high prices at top end, but that markets elsewhere are more balanced with domains selling in greater volumes throughout the price ranges.

Would be really interesting to know what volume of the top end UK domain names are merely to other domain entrepeneurs rather than to the end-user market.

My personal view is that there is little real substance and depth to the end-user market at the moment and perhaps there never will be.

It would be really interesting to see a proper piece of research in this area but I guess we are never to go to have all the data we need to do this.

Stephen.

 

[websaway]

I've been doing this for 10 years now and sold thousands of domains either in my bargain threads here for £2 or to end users for mid £x,xxx. I think I know how it works by now from experience.

The secondary market hardly exists in the UK, yet it does in USA and Germany. I'm sure it is about pricing, and trying to overcharge for an ordinary domain ruins it for everybody as we look like rip-off merchants. I can show plenty of emails of how people feel about us even when asking for moderate amounts for decent domains.

Stephen.

I know you are a creditable member and I hope I havn't offended you but If you've sold thousands of domains then you really shouldn't need to be complaining.

 

[Brassneck]

I know your a creditable member and I hope I havn't offended you but If you've sold thousands of domains then you really shouldn't need to be complaining.

Not offended at all. I just don't agree with those kind of sales tactics if indeed it is an 'average' domain name.

 

[Edwin]

Good Question - probably best to ask people like Edwin who market domains at those sort of prices.

Over 90% of our names are less than that

 

[Marcoose]

I would disagree totally - the domains you see reported German (.de) and USA (.com) are far higher than the majority of .co.uk domains sold - pricing isn't the issue at all. It is the same as everything else, the UK is years behind most countries in so many ways, and domains is one of them.

I don't think it is because we are "behind" here in the UK.

A .com will open up a global market of searches so it is 90% of the time going to be more valuable than a .co.uk. America's population is also 5 times the size of ours so there are more people fighting for the same number of domains.

.de's probably sell for more because the Germany economy has faired much better than Uk the last few years and again their population is bigger = more demand, same (ish) supply.