20i Domains

Social experiment #DomainCrowdfunding and execution

Discussion in 'General Board' started by Scrat, Sep 10, 2020.

  1. Scrat

    Scrat Member

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    * Quick side note: after first reading it probably might sound too crazy idea to be true but take your time and try to look at the picture not only through .UK current domainers eyes but also ...
    I. does this solution can help to bring more investors (not TAG holders and miners) and interest in the .UK market?
    II. Can we create together more value, execute faster and make a profit?



    In theory, Acorn community could be decent digital agency - there are many developers, SEO experts, designers, copywriters, bloggers, problem solvers, sales gurus, just name it.

    All of you have your own domain portfolios. Some of you focusing on domain flipping, others develop sites which usually do not get very far in a long run because to do everything by your own (develop, design, SEO, marketing, solve 1001 problems and start the whole process again) takes time, skills, nerves and to be very good at all of this is a challenge.

    Let’s focus under this topic only premium one-word SEO .uk domains (there are many of these for sale £10,000+) that has not planned to develop by current owner/domainer. Owners who want to sell and not keep it as their pension backup plan.


    Possible experiment

    STAGE #1

    * Example: Let’s say that 100 Acorn members decide to invest in a domain that cost £100. Everyone will pay £1 for their 1% equity.


    STAGE #2
    * There are three different scenarios what to do with domain:
    a) add value and try to sell it
    b) add value and cash in from ads
    c) flip - people (end user/company) very often do not know what they need if you do not serve it properly. How much time the average domainer have spend for an active sale and present all her/his domains that they look “Instagram friendly” if they have thousands of domains? Should focus lead generation and sales.



    What would be the reason for the experiment?

    1. To see do strangers in one community but with so different background can work together and do something better than professional SEO and marketing companies in the UK and beat them on Google ranking table.

    2. Let’s not forget about money! Can we take one domain and add 3-5 times value for domain and execute in the next 6-8 months?

    3. To see is there an interest for domain crowdfunding. If yes then @lazarus be so kind and consider to add crowdfunding option on flip.uk because that might attract premium domain owners to list their portfolios on flip.uk (in this case I would probably be interested in to invest my £10 in premium domains - for me it does not matter if I own domain alone or have just a piece of it what really matters is the quality of domain).

    4. Crowdfunding has been recent years quite trendy and fancy word. I’m not going to copy-paste all statistics here because you can find it easily using Google for that. If you do that focus on average "crowdfunder" profiles to see their investment behaviour. Usually, they invest in small amounts which means that if you list £10,000+ domain on dan, Sedo, etc. then for them it would be too high risk to buy it BUT if they could invest £100 pounds in a premium SEO domain then that might change the game.

    Domain crowdfunding might cause quite a lot of emotions and feedback on the market ... so good time if we can do that through flip.uk then it is one way how to get a bit more traffic and blow life on it.

    __________________________________________________

    Question: What do you think would it work based on Acorn community?

    * Do not hesitate to give some lemons, all opinions are welcome and there are no right or wrong answers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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    articles.co.uk
     
  3. Grant

    Grant Active Member

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    I had a similar idea a few years ago. Note my name down of interest. I thought about it a lot. I'd donate my share to charity. I donate anyway and I think the back and forth between a team like this would open everyone's eyes to perspectives.

    I have a plan somewhere, as it was something I was really keen about.
     
  4. dee

    dee Well-Known Member Acorn Supporter

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    In theory, interesting idea, but initial stumbling block thoughts :

    -how is domain chosen?

    -who holds the ownership?

    -do the people that work on it get paid an hourly rate so fair division of time ? If 100 people buy in, but only 5 people do the build out / seo how does it work?

    - Who decides the out ? if selling ....when ? you'd never get 100 people agreeing on a price
     
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  5. seemly

    seemly Well-Known Member

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    In theory it sounds great, but in practice different industries take more time investment than others.

    When an individual is spending many hours on a specific area of expertise (e.g; marketing), but design and programming is completed in a fraction of the time, who is perceptively doing more work?

    Also, individuals can tend to over/under sell themselves. So "value" and "fairness" is truly determined when and how?

    Take programming for instance; With experience comes better coding practice, so abstracting code into packages for improved time efficiencies in future builds. In the business world I would charge for my years of experience rather than an hourly rate. It might not take a programmer long to build the functionality and implement the UI, but that's due to many years of on the job experience.

    UI design; Depending on the "client", can be a very time intensive process. Designing in a modular "component" methodology rather than per-project tends to provide improved efficiencies. If you already have those components within some sort of library, then like programming, time efficiencies are saved and the "price" is determined by years of experience rather than time spent implementing.

    Digital marketing; Every industry would require a unique practice to market and promote successfully. I would imagine this is very time intensive and takes lots of planning and time to implement successfully.
     
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  6. Grant

    Grant Active Member

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    Tonnes of variables. That's why a charity route could be a good way to start...iron out the creases.

    There is a company that does this in the states. The owner wanted a domain off me years ago. I believe it's called Linked.
     
  7. Grant

    Grant Active Member

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    I'm sure the Admin or another long standing member would act as the owner on behalf of anyone working on it, and most would be happy with that.
     
  8. Scrat

    Scrat Member

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    Sidenotes: The first project can be done without any specific platform and based on Acorn community but it seems if to do that properly and go public it needs its platform and guarantees because crowdfunding goes under investments then there are quite a few laws and legislations that need to be followed.

    In the example below I jump a few steps ahead. The platform would be a mix of Indiegogo, Kickstarter and Funderbeam.


    _____________________________________________________


    How is domain chosen?

    1. We should list only 500 or 1000 (one specific number of domains, no more no less to make it compact and focus only for the best quality). Crowdfunding would not work in this case if we list everything people get lost and many domains do not reach its investment goals.

    2. Let’s say that we decide to take 1000 domains on the platform. Then to make these domains attractive for people who do not know anything about investing in domains or the only thing they have heard of is “.COM bubble” what does not sound sexy at all. Under every domain, there should be a short overview of the current possible market (trending, statistics, number of search results on Google, keyword prices, number of the UK companies in this field, other investors, etc.) this is the information that investors need.

    3. What if we have 500 or 1000 domains on the platform but there will be a better one? Two scenarios: a) we add it in the waiting list b) switch the place with lower demand domain that hasn’t get crowdfunders behind yet.


    Who holds the ownership?

    The first test project can be run and hosted by flip.uk or Acorn because probably most acorners trust them the most. The project has already on paper grown too big and separate from flip.uk main idea then before to go public with it it should run on its platform and follow all laws and regulations.


    Do the people that work on it get paid an hourly rate so fair division of time ? If 100 people buy in, but only 5 people do the build out / seo how does it work?

    People do not get paid. Everyone should invest their own time in the project where they see a potential. If under a domain the community is not active or there are no skilled people in this team then this is the risk that they take and probably they just sitting on a domain.
    No one shouldn’t get blamed that they do not put the same effort on it as someone else. This is community-based investments and different people have different skills and wills so in a long term you shouldn’t select only a domain where to invest but also do your decisions based on other investors and team members who have trackreckord and ranking on the platform - similar to eToro copytrader (same same but different). If you do not invest in people who can execute then there wouldn't be any difference if your domain just sitting on dan.com or somewhere else it would be the same slow fishing.

    We can’t expect that all people (crowdfunders) work for it. It is not important. Their effort can be even if they share their journey with their friends on social media. Example: 100 users *100 followers = 10,000 people with £0 marketing cost. If we get 1000 crowdfunders who all have 100 followers then we can reach to 100,000 people. Now how much would it cost for a company to reach to 100k users on social media, especially when we are talking about crowdfunding ads which go under financial services (financial ads are one of the high-priced ads) and depends on the market & timing it can cost easily over £1M. SO there shouldn’t be situations like “I worked today 5 hours! What did you do??!” because it is community-based and we never know which contacts, influence any of us have but never do not give a weakest player titles someone by their cover or action on the stage. If you see that you can do alone more and others do not appreciate your work enough then probably this solution is not for you. I haven't seen such kind of friendliness and supportive community that Acorn has easily nowhere else so even if I would like to see that it works the same way on the new platform then it probably does not. We have to understand that for most crowdfunders such kind of platform is where they expect to invest just a little bit money and put 0 work and gratitude on it.


    Who decides who is doing what?

    Every crowdfunder should have their profile where we show their investments, teams, ranking, skills, etc.
    After when a domain reaches its crowdfunding goals then it would be closed group where they can decide who is doing what and if they can’t make a decision unanimously then they vote (based on their % of equity) who get most votes takes the lead.

    A little bit like a mix of Reddit and Github. Where community members/crowdfunders can suggest what to do + rank ideas + board.


    Who decides the out ? if selling ....when ? you'd never get 100 people agreeing on a price?

    A few different scenarios:

    1. Every crowdfunder have their % of equity. The platform would be a mix of Indiegogo, Kickstarter and Funderbeam. Which means that crowdfunders can sell their share with the price they think is right - based on open market & demand principles.

    2. Selling a domain as one & pricing:
    Different formulas can give an estimate price for a domain/website. Let’s take an example when 100 people buy a domain that cost £100. They work with it and a) they make ad revenue 20% a year b) they have contracts sold for three years ahead. There are always 1001 other things but let’s say that domain is now worth £160 (60% more). Now when someone wants to buy the domain then the typical B example is that there will be a small bubble which means £160 + 20% = 192 would be “reasonable market price”.

    What if all shareholders do not agree to sell with that price?
    The main thing should be to avoid the situation when lower participation shareholders decide to practice domain squatting because it will ruin the whole idea and scare people away.

    If there will be an offer to buy the domain then greater participation shareholders have to agree with that (it can be 51%, 75% or 90% depends).

    If lower participation of shareholder does not agree with that then they have prior right to buy other shareholders shares with that price in a limited time or it would be sold. The idea needs more work but I do not see any better option than how it works with public companies.


    Digital marketing; Every industry would require a unique practice to market and promote successfully. I would imagine this is very time intensive and takes lots of planning and time to implement successfully.

    True but the main thing is that nobody expects you to invest in domains and market you do not understand. Domain crowdfunding would be an investment like any other, everyone should make their homework and understand why they want to invest in it.

    Example: if you like flowers and you are one of those hundred thousand people who have joined on FB with flower groups then you might not have any interest invest in healthcare.uk because you do not know who are companies, organisations, services that can use it and for what purpose. The same thing with people in the health care sector, they might like to get flowers for a birthday or Valentine's day but most of them probably think that it is just a small hobby for flowers.uk not knowing that in 2019 garden, plants and flowers market size in the UK was £5,823B.
     
  9. Aaron Clifford

    Aaron Clifford Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like an argumentative mess of an idea.
     
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  10. Grant

    Grant Active Member

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    With that updated post, I think I've missed the point to be honest.

    I've always wanted to group together and start a site, learn from others, grow a site...so there's no arguments (money confuses things), use it as a platform to donate to charity, and maybe people from that, split off and do their own successful things together.

    Investing & premium domains etc is another idea, still a good one for sure if the finer details are ironed out, but as someone said, I think it could be difficult to get everyone on the same page.
     
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