.UK Announced

[Edwin]

It's not proper to sell something you have already sold to someone even if it's the same entity, If in the event it did it would bring the whole issue of ownership in to dispute for now and the future.

And it's even less proper to sell it to someone else!

 

[websaway]

Paragraph by paragraph:

1. No. The horse has already bolted. It's all about putting aside knee-jerk reactions, and mitigating the consequences in a fair and reasoned way, with the interests of all parties at heart.

2. Maybe you've been on the wrong fora.

3. Your two sentences don't correlate - non sequitur.

I agree about the knee jerk reaction thing, it's the last response you want.
I don't know where you are coming from though on the horse has already bolted thing. This suggests a done deal, If that were the case who would ever buy into a system where rules and legalities, contracts, promises and guarantees, are of no significance to a bar on any change that nominet motivates in the future.

 

[websaway]

The "gains" are the fact that .uk is going to happen anyway. Everything I've read so far on the subject suggests that Nominet is too far along and too invested in the idea to scrap it completely.

So the "win" in this situation is to get the best possible outcome for businesses (they are the ones that .uk is designed for) from the range of scenarios that are in fact plausible.

As I've posted before, the logic is water-tight: Nominet has promoted .co.uk as the trusted extension for businesses since year zero, and continues to do so right now over on http://www.agreatplacetobe.co.uk/ Since they want to introduce .uk with broadly all the same "attributes" as .co.uk (plus some extra security features) and using the same sort of pitch (the extension for business, trustworthy etc.) they're using for .co.uk then logic MUST dictate that .co.uk owners deserve first crack at it.

Think of .co.uk as a car, .org.uk as a bicycle and .me.uk as a skateboard. They're all modes of transport, they'll all get you from A-B. Now .uk comes in, and it's a different kind of car. Which of the 3 groups should get to benefit from it?

I also firmly and sincerely believe that Nominet can't "erase" the value in .co.uk just by launching .uk. There will be 2 "desirable extensions" for business, not 1, if .uk goes ahead - you can't undo 15 years of branding by millions of businesses just by wishing it. So why should a business that has already secured a great .co.uk domain throw that away for a lesser .uk one? (this assumes Nominet doesn't grandfather them in automatically).

Sure, IF a business gets both it's decision time - and I believe the fairest is that they should have that choice - but it's the work of seconds (and free) to point 2 domains to 1 website and be done with it. There's no need for a "rebrand" beyond that - people will be able to find the company no matter which "variant" they try!

You surprise me. Surely the first line of defence is to stop the change on the basis that it is impractical, impractical because the namespace of commercial/business use has already been sold and purchased, and that simply for nominets convenience connot just be sold again, at any price.
It's not proper to sell something you have already sold to someone even if it's the same entity, If in the event it did it would bring the whole issue of ownership in to dispute for now and the future.

 

[willbon]

Perhaps the best suggestion is that .uk is the 'premium secure' domain extension which current owners of the .co.uk, .org.uk and .me.uk (in that order) can UPGRADE to if they want to....?

The original .co.uk ( /.org.uk / .me.uk etc) would then forward automatically to this secure extension and show what Nominet is trying to achieve.

.. also a 'rollout period' of 12 months where current owners of .co.uk, .org.uk and .me.uk are offered (in that order) the opportunity to upgrade if they want to...

After this period, the .uk is available to anyone who has another xx.uk extension or is purchasing a new domain (FTR or retail)

This solution would make the most sense because.....

- Nominet achieve their goal
- .co.uk / .org.uk / .me.uk owners would not feel that the upgrade was a necessity but could do if they wished
- Current business domain holders will not need to change their stationery
- Domain retailers will be affected, but it offers time to get used to the idea, upgrade their current portfolio for certain names and with the increased cost, release some domains back 'into the pot'

Smiles all round?

 

[arkvard]

Here is a small excerpt from a Uk legal website concerning domain name rights:

"Taking preventative action to protect your trade marks and domain names is the best way to avoid damage to your business. You should purchase any domain names that will be essential to your business as soon as possible. Before doing so, conduct searches to establish whether any similar domain names have been registered or any registered or unregistered trade marks exist, whose owners could object to your registration. Such a trade mark search is also essential as a trade mark owner could seek to bring a separate action for ‘passing off’ or trade mark infringement as a result of your use of the name, even if they do not object to your registration of the domain name."

Isn't it only right that a TM holder gets the chance to register a .uk 1st?

If someone was going to buy a domain name shouldn't conducting a TM check be the first thing you should do?

If you bought a domain name that had no TM when you bought it, that either cost you £1,000s in the first place to acquire or you knew you was going to spend £1,000s to develop it into a brand shouldn't you have applied for TM rights yourself to cover any future problems and protect your investment?

 

[foz]

Isn't it only right that a TM holder gets the chance to register a .uk 1st?

If someone was going to buy a domain name shouldn't conducting a TM check be the first thing you should do?

Has that been happening since 1996 with .co.uk? No, first come first served.

TM's (in multiple classes) do encroach onto generic and descriptive terms.

TM's do not own words. It is your use of a domain (on the whole) that is the main factor when challenged by a TM owner.

 

[arkvard]

Has that been happening since 1996 with .co.uk? No, first come first served.

TM's (in multiple classes) do encroach onto generic and descriptive terms.

TM's do not own words. It is your use of a domain (on the whole) that is the main factor when challenged by a TM owner.

Are you not then playing a game of russian roulette if you have bought or are going to buy a domain with even a hint of a TM in it, and especially a large investment in the domain or developing it?

 

[bb99]

Isn't it only right that a TM holder gets the chance to register a .uk 1st?

Yes and no

The harsh reality for most small businesses these days is that they don't have registered trademarks - maybe because they can't afford it or maybe because they see it as red tape or similar.

The DRS policy understands and acknowledges this, which is why establishing rights when you're making a complaint is based on such a low hurdle.

To favour registered TM holders in a sunrise (as they did in the short domain release) is in my opinion favoring big business* (ie those with the deepest pockets). I don't think that's fair on the small business.

That said, of course I can see the flipside when Mr Big Balls TM Holder comes along and says "we are a big TM business, of course we deserve priority over whatever.uk compared to some shithouse little small business of the same name".

But the shithouse little small business has read Nominet's PR saying that the new direct.uk is for businesses to get online.

And what we have here is a fairly irreconcilable problem. It's so irreconcilable that perhaps this is where Foz is coming from when he says that it's better not to open up the second level at all.




*Sure lots of small businesses have registered trademarks and I'm talking very broadly, but I think it's fair to say that the overwhelming majority don't.

 

[arkvard]

And what we have here is a fairly irreconcilable problem. It's so irreconcilable that perhaps this is where Foz is coming from when he says that it's better not to open up the second level at all.

I totally agree, but don't you think Nominet have gone through all the possible scenarios, and can you really see them dumping the whole idea now after something they have probably been planning for years but didn't know the right way to go?

 

[foz]

Are you not then playing a game of russian roulette if you have bought or are going to buy a domain with even a hint of a TM in it, and especially a large investment in the domain or developing it?

Domains with iphone, nike, adidas. Yes, these are brands.

Domains with dictionary words, surnames, sayings (that can also me TM's) No.

 

[bb99]

I totally agree, but don't you think Nominet have gone through all the possible scenarios, and can you really see them dumping the whole idea now after something they have probably been planning for years but didn't know the right way to go?

That's a very good question.

It's perhaps something to ask Nominet but given recent media coverage of the whole BIS Government intervention thing, I'm not sure I'd trust the answer even if I had it.

 

[websaway]

That's a very good question.

It's perhaps something to ask Nominet but given recent media coverage of the whole BIS Government intervention thing, I'm not sure I'd trust the answer even if I had it.

Can't find anywhere recent BIS comments.
Care to share ?

 

[simondooner]

Scented Candles

Giving Trade Mark owners first opportunity to purchase “theirtm.uk” without due regard is a hornet’s nest of a problem waiting to explode.

For example:

If Nominet proceeds in this way the domain name “loans.uk” will be offered to an organisation called Kinetic Solutions Ltd who has a registered word only mark for “LOANS” which covers Class 04 – Scented Candles. I believe they are the only owners of this one work mark so will have no need to bid at auction.
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/domestic?domesticnum=2509471

Unfortunately, the owners and operators of loans.co.uk are unlikely to be involved in this first stage as their Trade Mark with Device is for "loans.co.uk".

As a matter of interest Kinetic Solutions Ltd have other registered Trade Marks for similar one word marks such as “money”, “pets”, “insurance”, “news”, “debt” and more… all in the same Class 04 – Scented Candles. See for yourself here…
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/t-find-adp?propnum=0938900001

 

[bb99]

Can't find anywhere recent BIS comments.
Care to share ?

These two:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...cked-by-disability-discrimination-ruling.html

and

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19550952

 

[mojoco]

There are live word only TM's held by:

Kinetic Solutions Ltd
Akara Building, 24 De Castro Street, Wickhams Cay 1, Road Town, Tortola, British Virgin Islands

For the following words:

Tickets
Condos
Doctor
Forex
Games
Hotel
Hotels
Kids
Lawyer
Lawyers
Pharmacy
Auto
Autos
Business
College
Condo
Chat
Credit
CreditReport
CPA
Dating
Debt
Dictionary
Diets
Email
Forum
Furniture
Insurance
Loan
Loans
Lottery
Mortgage
News
RealEstate
Refinance
Rent
Diet
Find
Money
Movie
Movies
Pets
Search
Weather
Anime
Camera
cameras
Degree
Degrees
Download
Law
Poker
Review
Reviews
Bank
Blog


Here is the link to IPO for Tickets TM

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/domestic?domesticnum=2509483

Click the link near the bottom "Other cases owned by this proprietor"




Take mortgage.co.uk as an example.
The name currently does not appear to be in "proper" use, which means the registrant has no right to mortgage.uk and the TM holder does.

What a mess !


That is just the tip of the iceberg !

 

[grantw]

Can't find anywhere recent BIS comments.
Care to share ?

Might also be worth keeping an eye on this page, would be a shame to let this scandal totally die in the wake of the current issue:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/correspondence_between_bis_profe/

Grant

 

[Trigger Happy]

Insider information about upcoming .uk launch?

There are live word only TM's held by:

Kinetic Solutions Ltd
Akara Building, 24 De Castro Street, Wickhams Cay 1, Road Town, Tortola, British Virgin Islands

For the following words:

Tickets
Condos
Doctor
Forex
Games
Hotel
Hotels
Kids
Lawyer
Lawyers
Pharmacy
Auto
Autos
Business
College
Condo
Chat
Credit
CreditReport
CPA
Dating
Debt
Dictionary
Diets
Email
Forum
Furniture
Insurance
Loan
Loans
Lottery
Mortgage
News
RealEstate
Refinance
Rent
Diet
Find
Money
Movie
Movies
Pets
Search
Weather
Anime
Camera
cameras
Degree
Degrees
Download
Law
Poker
Review
Reviews
Bank
Blog


Here is the link to IPO for Tickets TM

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/domestic?domesticnum=2509483

Click the link near the bottom "Other cases owned by this proprietor"




Take mortgage.co.uk as an example.
The name currently does not appear to be in "proper" use, which means the registrant has no right to mortgage.uk and the TM holder does.

What a mess !


That is just the tip of the iceberg !

 

[domainseller200]

Insider information about upcoming .uk launch?

My thoughts EXACTLY !!!!

This stinks !!

 

[foz]

Insider information about upcoming .uk launch?

"Tickets"

Filing date:20 February 2009

By three and a half years?

 

[~andy]

Entertaining this idea is a mistake. I have nothing to lose from the introduction of .uk, but it must be stopped in it's tracks.

I fear if it's a success, the government will want in on the action. If it's a failure, the government will step in to sort it out.

I'm really not sure anyone will come out of this a winner.