Ideas why Domains Wanted Section is so slow

[Brassneck]

What do you class as a premium domain by the way? because there does not even appear to be much call for those

I'll wait for others to define that. I don't seem to have any judging by my current levels of sales.

Stephen.

 

[Edwin]

I believe that approximately ZERO end-users use this forum.

After all, why should they. As an end-user, they have a particular domain or domains in mind and they'll either try and buy them or they won't. They're not going to stumble across this forum (which will have nothing at all to do with their core competence), build up enough posts to be allowed to post a "Wanted" ad then do so on the off-chance that the owner of one of the tiny handful of names that are "key" to their particular niche A) are on here B) respond to a "fishing expedition" in wanted.

Real people in real businesses have better things to do with their time.

 

[domsaleuk]

No you are Bang On
Of course not enough end users use this forum.

Bur domainers will buy at reasonable prices only the good domains they are interested in can be sold to end users at end user prices. There are not enough good domains to satisfy demand, that's why good domains have high price tags.
So what your mostly left with are lots of unwanted domains being listed and not many people wanting them.

Ok - so maybe you can answer the question then that Brassneck said others may answer - which is what do you think qualifies as a premium domain? as I have not seen many sales of what I perceive to be premium domains take place at all - in fact I have not seen many sales of any worth take place at all and I have now been using this forum regularly for a good few months. Maybe I am missing something - I am not saying this is not the case, it could be, but if so I would like to know what as at the moment I don't believe that domainers buy for reasonable prices.

 

[rob]

Would agree with Edwin, its a rarity when a real end user comes to Acorn. If you are posting on here to find an end user then I would say you are barmy.

Likewise the number of resellers does seem to be drying up on here.

Perhaps people can name say the top 5 'best' names separate resellers have *sold* via this forum this year to put some meat on the bones?

Acorn isnt 'the market', and is a collection of catchers or those with lists looking to sell them off mainly from what I read at the moment. Plus the odd debate like this

 

[domsaleuk]

I believe that approximately ZERO end-users use this forum.

After all, why should they. As an end-user, they have a particular domain or domains in mind and they'll either try and buy them or they won't. They're not going to stumble across this forum (which will have nothing at all to do with their core competence), build up enough posts to be allowed to post a "Wanted" ad then do so on the off-chance that the owner of one of the tiny handful of names that are "key" to their particular niche A) are on here B) respond to a "fishing expedition" in wanted.

Real people in real businesses have better things to do with their time.

I really don't agree. If people are looking for domains they may well want to post a wanted ad in a place that domainers visit and be sent a selection of options to look through. What I didn't realise is that you had to build up a certain number of posts to post a wanted ad and so there is one immediate thing that will put people off posting wanted ads.

 

[Edwin]

Ok - so maybe you can answer the question then that Brassneck said others may answer - which is what do you think qualifies as a premium domain? as I have not seen many sales of what I perceive to be premium domains take place at all - in fact I have not seen many sales of any worth take place at all and I have now been using this forum regularly for a good few months. Maybe I am missing something - I am not saying this is not the case, it could be, but if so I would like to know what as at the moment I don't believe that domainers buy for reasonable prices.

Of course domainers don't buy for "reasonable prices" (if by "reasonable" you mean "interestingly high")! That wouldn't be much of a business model, given that most will only see 1%-2% of sales (to end users a year) so therefore they can't buy at more than a tiny fraction of end user "value" unless they already have a buyer in mind or know they can sell on that specific domain name at a profit.

Bear in mind there are plenty of folks sitting on thousands of generics - why would they dip into their wallets to add one or two more for anything more than "peanuts"?

In short, Acorn sale prices << DomainLore sale prices << end-user sale prices

 

[websaway]

Ok - so maybe you can answer the question then that Brassneck said others may answer - which is what do you think qualifies as a premium domain? as I have not seen many sales of what I perceive to be premium domains take place at all - in fact I have not seen many sales of any worth take place at all and I have now been using this forum regularly for a good few months. Maybe I am missing something - I am not saying this is not the case, it could be, but if so I would like to know what as at the moment I don't believe that domainers buy for reasonable prices.

A premium domain is one that you have got and one or more other people want as much or more than you do.

 

[Edwin]

I really don't agree. If people are looking for domains they may well want to post a wanted ad in a place that domainers visit and be sent a selection of options to look through. What I didn't realise is that you had to build up a certain number of posts to post a wanted ad and so there is one immediate thing that will put people off posting wanted ads.

Ah, but if you're a real "end user" you will have 1, 2 or at best a tiny handful of domains that are relevant to your business, and you won't care about anything else.

If you're marketing a product and you can either call it "X" or "Y" then you'll want X.co.uk or Y.co.uk and nothing else is relevant (except perhaps Z.co.uk if the whole class of products can itself be described as "Z")

So it's the work of 60 seconds to see what's at X.co.uk and/or Y.co.uk and if either of them might be for sale (and if so, contact the owner directly).

And then it's back to selling X and Y i.e. the regular day-job...

 

[Edwin]

A premium domain is one that you have got and one or more other people want as much or more than you do.

I'd add to that "A premium domain is one that - given enough time - will ultimately sell itself".

The flip-side of that (i.e. non-premium) would be "A domain that, no matter how long you wait, nobody will ever pro-actively make an offer on".

If anyone has thousands of domains and absolutely no offers then that's a "CLUE" written in huge fiery letters that perhaps they're not worth anything.

 

[Brassneck]

So how many premium domain names are there? 1,000 or 10,000 or 100,000 or even 1 million.

My guess is that at the moment it is more like 30,000 - a number which has declined over the last few years in my opinion.

Stephen.

 

[domsaleuk]

Of course domainers don't buy for "reasonable prices" (if by "reasonable" you mean "interestingly high")! That wouldn't be much of a business model, given that most will only see 1%-2% of sales (to end users a year) so therefore they can't buy at more than a tiny fraction of end user "value" unless they already have a buyer in mind or know they can sell on that specific domain name at a profit.

Bear in mind there are plenty of folks sitting on thousands of generics - why would they dip into their wallets to add one or two more for anything more than "peanuts"?

In short, Acorn sale prices << DomainLore sale prices << end-user sale prices

I mean reasonable - i.e. buy a good name for a low x,xxx when you know it is likely that an end user will pay mid x,xxx or something along those lines

 

[Edwin]

I mean reasonable - i.e. buy a good name for a low x,xxx when you know it is likely that an end user will pay mid x,xxx or something along those lines

As I just explained, that would be utterly counter-productive.

If you expect a mid-x,xxx sale then you want to be paying low xxx max because you could have the name sitting on the shelf for a decade before that buyer comes along.

Domains are very, very illiquid so the way to compensate is buy extremely low and sell high (because that covers the 99 out of 100 domains that don't sell)

 

[domsaleuk]

Ah, but if you're a real "end user" you will have 1, 2 or at best a tiny handful of domains that are relevant to your business, and you won't care about anything else.

If you're marketing a product and you can either call it "X" or "Y" then you'll want X.co.uk or Y.co.uk and nothing else is relevant (except perhaps Z.co.uk if the whole class of products can itself be described as "Z")

So it's the work of 60 seconds to see what's at X.co.uk and/or Y.co.uk and if either of them might be for sale (and if so, contact the owner directly).

And then it's back to selling X and Y i.e. the regular day-job...

Again I don't agree and this will change further as time goes on. Now " digital" is here to stay companies can create various sites under their own white labels to sell their own products and I am sure more and more big companies will do this - why wouldn't they - why not have 10 white label sites selling your product and making money - it will not impact on your main brand but you need good domains to do that

 

[Edwin]

Again I don't agree and this will change further as time goes on. Now " digital" is here to stay companies can create various sites under their own white labels to sell their own products and I am sure more and more big companies will do this - why wouldn't they - why not have 10 white label sites selling your product and making money - it will not impact on your main brand but you need good domains to do that

Each to their own - personally I know our business would have been a complete non-starter if we'd had to pay high-xxx to x,xxx for each/many of the names in our inventory.

 

[Brassneck]

Of course domainers don't buy for "reasonable prices" (if by "reasonable" you mean "interestingly high")! That wouldn't be much of a business model, given that most will only see 1%-2% of sales (to end users a year) so therefore they can't buy at more than a tiny fraction of end user "value" unless they already have a buyer in mind or know they can sell on that specific domain name at a profit.

Bear in mind there are plenty of folks sitting on thousands of generics - why would they dip into their wallets to add one or two more for anything more than "peanuts"?

In short, Acorn sale prices << DomainLore sale prices << end-user sale prices

A thought on Edwin's numbers.

If you have 1000 premium domain names, it costs £2,500 per year to keep them registered. So you sell 10 domains for £1,000 (1% of total). That is a profit of £7,500 which is not bad but given the slow rate of selling at some point you are going to have to sell up to resellers (i.e. if you want to retire / get out of the business) or domains might become irrelevant over time and they might end up being worthless anyway.

If any of my assumptions are correct then even premium domain sellers have a bit of a problem here.

For everybody's sake, premium and middle-level, the entire market needs to grow for it to be sustainable.

Stephen.

 

[domsaleuk]

I'd add to that "A premium domain is one that - given enough time - will ultimately sell itself".

The flip-side of that (i.e. non-premium) would be "A domain that, no matter how long you wait, nobody will ever pro-actively make an offer on".

If anyone has thousands of domains and absolutely no offers then that's a "CLUE" written in huge fiery letters that perhaps they're not worth anything.

Agreed - I am just not sure that the domain community is very clear on the elements that make a name a good domain from a development perspective and that is where end users are- "in future development".

I do hope the last comment was not aimed at me by the way because getting offers is not an issue - getting reasonable offers is - but I am not going to take this personally as I know that many of the names I have for sale are as good as yours so if I can't sell a lot of the ones I have - I doubt you can either - which is back to my whole argument as I think both our portfolios have many good quality "premium" domains.

By the way - I do not expect Acorn to be the place to sell for end user prices but I am shocked at the lack of resellers and I do think if it wanted to Acorn could become a platform for a lot more end user interest.

 

[websaway]

I suppose something that is missing in this thread is the definition of an end user. A savvy business will go straight for the domain that most matches the needs of the business, but in the main the end user is someone contracted to build and maintain the website and I.T needs of an entity and they will carry out their contractual obligations without feeling the need to educate their client on the benefits of quality domain names. Unless of course there is something additional in it for them.

 

[Edwin]

I do hope the last comment was not aimed at me by the way because getting offers is not an issue - getting reasonable offers is - but I am not going to take this personally as I know that many of the names I have for sale are as good as yours so if I can't sell a lot of the ones I have - I doubt you can either - which is back to my whole argument as I think both our portfolios have many good quality "premium" domains.

Not specifically aimed at anyone, just a statement of fact: anyone sitting on a LARGE number of domains who's not getting regular unsolicited interest is by definition sitting on stuff that people don't want.

If you go fishing with 1,000 hooks and you wait and you wait and you wait and no fish ever bite, then it's most likely because either the bait's never going to be to their taste or you're fishing in the wrong place.

I'm not sure why you say that you doubt we can sell our names - I've had no trouble doing so in the past and the offers still come in regularly (though a bit slow with Jubilee/Euro/Wimbledon/summer distraction).

 

[Brassneck]

Not specifically aimed at anyone, just a statement of fact: anyone sitting on a LARGE number of domains who's not getting regular unsolicited interest is by definition sitting on stuff that people don't want.

If you go fishing with 1,000 hooks and you wait and you wait and you wait and no fish ever bite, then it's most likely because either the bait's never going to be to their taste or you're fishing in the wrong place.

I'm not sure why you say that you doubt we can sell our names - I've had no trouble doing so in the past and the offers still come in regularly (though a bit slow with Jubilee/Euro/Wimbledon/summer distraction).

I didn't doubt it. You said you only sold 1 to 2 per cent. You have costs and I no your prices are high but you are not immortal and at some point you will most likely have to sell in bulk.

When people sell monetised websites they seem to be doing well to get 3 years worth of revenue. Will your domain portfolio be worth a similar multiple when you want to sell up. Not specifically aimed at you Edwin, but surely exit strategy must be something to consider if you are sitting on a potentially valuable but illiquid asset.

Stephen.

 

[websaway]

Hello - I am beginning to get really really bored with the domains wanted section of this forum ....it is so slow it is like watching paint dry! I have used this forum on and off for many years and I don't recall it being this slow in the past. That said my heavy focus on domains is far more recent so maybe I didn't take so much notice before.

I would however be really interested to hear other peoples take on this

a) has it always been this slow?
b) If not when did it slow down?
c) why do you think it is so slow?
d) Do you think it is just domainers posting wanted ads here as opposed to requests from third parties?
e) How can it be speeded up ?

All comments/ ideas will be read with interest - Thank you

comments removed.