Ideas why Domains Wanted Section is so slow

[websaway]

I didn't doubt it. You said you only sold 1 to 2 per cent. You have costs and I no your prices are high but you are not immortal and at some point you will most likely have to sell in bulk.

When people sell monetised websites they seem to be doing well to get 3 years worth of revenue. Will your domain portfolio be worth a similar multiple when you want to sell up. Not specifically aimed at you Edwin, but surely exit strategy must be something to consider if you are sitting on a potentially valuable but illiquid asset.

Stephen.

I suppose if push comes to shove Edwin could sell his best 20 and retire.

 

[doodlebug]

If this place is to be any good for selling to end users then everyone including me needs to stop selling domains cheap and get rid of the bargain section, any end user coming here wouldn't dream of paying £300 + for a domain once they have a look around here, this place is only good for resellers to buy, it's kind of like an antique dealer trying to sell a 30k piece in a dodgy little auction place held in an industrial unit which on wednesday becomes a playgroup or something and only advertised locally by door to door leaflets and expecting 30k for their piece.

I would say that it's good end users don't come here and better that we go to them, I sold to an end user on here for £40, he only joined to buy my name and never came back, god knows how he knew the name was on here, I only listed about 1 hour before he joined.

Sell to resellers on here but let's keep the end users away !

As for premiums, music.co.uk I can understand but things like worms.co.uk or dragonfly.co.uk I just don't get

 

[rob]

As a matter of interest. Who is "Stem Distribution Limited in liquidation" ?

Owned alot of tat - http://www.go-dove.com/Auctions/Auction15521/All Domains.pdf

If this place is to be any good for selling to end users then everyone including me needs to stop selling domains cheap and get rid of the bargain section, any end user coming here wouldn't dream of paying £300 + for a domain once they have a look around here, this place is only good for resellers to buy, it's kind of like an antique dealer trying to sell a 30k piece in a dodgy little auction place held in an industrial unit which on wednesday becomes a playgroup or something ...

To be fair, the quality of some of the stuff it does at times resemble a playgroup

More seriously though what 'image' do you think an outsider to domainers would get from reading Acorn ?

As for premiums, music.co.uk I can understand but things like worms.co.uk or dragonfly.co.uk I just don't get :?:

DragonFly.co.uk strikes me as a nice name!!

 

[Bailey]

Yep - i'm with Rob good names sell themselves (mostly in private deals outside the publicity of the board) but quite often with board members - I for one am very grateful to Acorn, I should make more upkeep donations to be fair - but I have made one or two.

Shite-domains only ever see the renewal emails -

 

[Blossom]

I view it this way.
If someone has a domain they wish to sell and the domain fits the criteria of a wanted ad then there is absolutely nothing to lose by submitting the domain. The frastrations that follow for the potential seller are not ideal but that's part of the domain game.

I see domains I'm potentially interested in in replies to 'Wanted' threads, but I never contact the poster because I always think it would be too cheeky to barge in on someone else's thread.

There are also some that I know have started literally dozens of wanted threads and yet still have zero domain trader ratings.

I don't necessarily think that means anything. I've probably bought about 15 domains from here and I only have a rating of 2.

I believe that approximately ZERO end-users use this forum.

After all, why should they. As an end-user, they have a particular domain or domains in mind and they'll either try and buy them or they won't. They're not going to stumble across this forum (which will have nothing at all to do with their core competence), build up enough posts to be allowed to post a "Wanted" ad then do so on the off-chance that the owner of one of the tiny handful of names that are "key" to their particular niche A) are on here B) respond to a "fishing expedition" in wanted.

Real people in real businesses have better things to do with their time.

I consider myself to be an end-user, although granted I'm not your typical end-user. I rarely have potential domains in mind; I see if what's available/posted on here takes my fancy.

Ah, but if you're a real "end user" you will have 1, 2 or at best a tiny handful of domains that are relevant to your business, and you won't care about anything else..

I tend to buy domains for a mix of personal projects and business-type sites (as well as a few niche sites, but that's obviously not really associated with end-users).

As far as buying patterns go, I very rarely buy based on number of exacts or the genericness or anything like that. If a name sounds good to me, or it has good backlinks, or I can think of a practical use for it, there's a good chance I'll take it if the price is right. My names are low-value in themselves, but I love them like the mongrels they are. I'm not an average end-user, but I'm much closer to that than a domainer.

From what I've seen in real life, people think the 'Domains for Sale' etc. links and the links that are/were on the right hand side are the only domains for sale and the rest is chat. So the prices for those instantly put newcomers off.

I personally avoid posting in the 'Wanted' forum because:

- I see others making very specific requirements about extensions, niche etc. and half the replies ignore the criteria altogether.

- On the one or two occasions I have posted asking for domains, certain people PM me several times and then continue to PM sporadically for months after even if I say it's not what I'm looking for but thanks.

- A lot of people absolutely take the piss with how much they want for really bad names: it's either insulting or bordering on a scam.

Might be a minority, but all contributes to unnecessary hassle (hence the avoiding posting there) and makes everyone else look bad.

This is what the 'Wanted' forum looks like from the other side:

 

[domsaleuk]

This is what the 'Wanted' forum looks like from the other side:

Hi Blossom - that was a very interesting overview of what the wanted section looks like from the other side as it were so thanks for that. From what you say and from everything that has been said and what I see I don't think that is likely to change on this forum anytime soon unless there is demand for it to do so.

I think the real issue I have and the point I am concerned about is that the "digital" industry has moved on in leaps and bounds over the past decade or so since many domainers started buying their domains and I believe there should be demand for domains wanted now from end users.

To be honest I think as much as domainers may be right where they make the point that the marketing/media world has an unfair view of them as "squatters" that domainers may be guilty of not moving with the times and the overriding view they seem to have is that buyers will come if the domain is good enough. That's a little bit like saying people only ever buy anything if they already know exactly what they want and that they never buy on impulse or because something is promoted to them.

I will probably be shouted at for saying this but in some ways it seems to me that the immediate acceptance that the wanted section is empty etc... alongside many other things indicate that in many ways the domain community has given up on the worth of their own assets or maybe what I think is far more to the point ...their abilty to promote and sell them. To add to the above there seems to me to be incredible confusion about what is and what is not a good domain and what are the ones that truely are likely to be really valuable.

Maybe this is not the forum to do this - maybe it is ? but personally I think the domain community needs to pick itself up, realise the value of what it is sitting on and come together to help to improve the market as a whole.

I think that one big step forward with this would be any help Acorn could give as it is a great platform that has both the "eyes" and "respect" of domainers. If it could do things like create ways to heavily promote the domains wanted section to entice interest from end buyers whilst keeping the forum private to domainers to trade between themselves (i.e. a trade section as it were where you need to own a certain number of domains to qualify) that might be a step forward ? Also if it were to identify issues with the domain sales and wanted sections from seller and buyer viewpoints that would be good too.

Just some thoughts – as if there is any hope of changing the market in a positive manner at all you need to start in the places that can make a difference!

 

[rob]

Maybe this is not the forum to do this - maybe it is ? but personally I think the domain community needs to pick itself up, realise the value of what it is sitting on and come together to help to improve the market as a whole.

I think that one big step forward with this would be any help Acorn could give as it is a great platform that has both the "eyes" and "respect" of domainers. If it could do things like create ways to heavily promote the domains wanted section to entice interest from end buyers whilst keeping the forum private to domainers to trade between themselves (i.e. a trade section as it were where you need to own a certain number of domains to qualify) that might be a step forward ? Also if it were to identify issues with the domain sales and wanted sections from seller and buyer viewpoints that would be good too.

Just some thoughts – as if there is any hope of changing the market in a positive manner at all you need to start in the places that can make a difference!

Good post - I have been saying, and tried for a while, to get that started.

The problem is the lack of interest all round. Essentially I think the issue lies with the big differences in interests and timeframes. If you are in for a quick buck or just collect ad rev then you wont be arsed.

I recall a similar debate a while back and someone got very offended when it was suggested their behaviour / methods may have to 'improve' , needless to say that person does not appear to be 'domaining' anymore.

 

[domsaleuk]

Good post - I have been saying, and tried for a while, to get that started.

The problem is the lack of interest all round. Essentially I think the issue lies with the big differences in interests and timeframes. If you are in for a quick buck or just collect ad rev then you wont be arsed.

I recall a similar debate a while back and someone got very offended when it was suggested their behaviour / methods may have to 'improve' , needless to say that person does not appear to be 'domaining' anymore.

Hi Rob - thanks for the feedback and I take your point about the differences in interests and timeframes and am going to give some thought to that before posting comments . Personally I am very serious about trying to help to change things as I do believe the time is absolutely right in the UK for the marketing world to sit up and take notice of generic domains but I do not think they will "just come" - the road needs to be laid for them and that is where I believe the domain community can really help.

 

[willbon]

Maybe if the 'bargain basement' and 'portfolio' sections were moved to a private area it may improve the 'look' from non-domainers point of view?... charge £40-50 a year instead of the £100 'exclusive members' section to get a good uptake?

I see the 'Domain wanted' section often used to sound out the market before the poster puts their own domain up for sale - and maybe to increase 'airtime' of a particular genre / niche....

 

[domsaleuk]

Maybe if the 'bargain basement' and 'portfolio' sections were moved to a private area it may improve the 'look' from non-domainers point of view?... charge £40-50 a year instead of the £100 'exclusive members' section to get a good uptake?

I see the 'Domain wanted' section often used to sound out the market before the poster puts their own domain up for sale - and maybe to increase 'airtime' of a particular genre / niche....

I think removing the bargain basement so it is domainer members only (i.e. trade) is a really good idea ! - also anything to encourage end user interaction would be good. It needs thought but the more people that post ideas the better as then at least there will be a feel for what people think generally - whether Acorn will want to do anything to make changes is I guess a different matter and I imagine that will depend on how many people think it is worthwhile.

I thought your points about the domain wanted section are interesting too - I wonder if others feel that way?

 

[fabpack]

Crap names
Crap prices
Crap people

One, two or all three to blame.

your positivity is inspiring!

 

[fabpack]

Why remove the bargain basement for all but members or paying traders?

Go into any retail environment - bricks and mortar and online - and you'll see clearance sections.

Are posters saying that there is too much quality in the bargain basement. In my opinion, no but you can get the odd steal too.

The biggest problem with names wanted in my opinion is around pricing expectations. The seller thinks the buyer's aspirations and budget are too small and the buyer thinks the sellers aspirations and prices are too high.

Remember this is an industry that is really only 15 years old, it's a dynamic and volatile sector and there is not sufficient past and stable history to establish a sound pricing hierarchy.

 

[domsaleuk]

Why remove the bargain basement for all but members or paying traders?

Go into any retail environment - bricks and mortar and online - and you'll see clearance sections.

Are posters saying that there is too much quality in the bargain basement. In my opinion, no but you can get the odd steal too.

The biggest problem with names wanted in my opinion is around pricing expectations. The seller thinks the buyer's aspirations and budget are too small and the buyer thinks the sellers aspirations and prices are too high.

Remember this is an industry that is really only 15 years old, it's a dynamic and volatile sector and there is not sufficient past and stable history to establish a sound pricing hierarchy.

I for one am saying that Yes there is too much quality in the bargain basement - not necessarily quality in terms of domains that should command xxxxx but it seems domains are being sold for xx or xxx by people desperate to rid themselves of reg fees when these domains could easily fetch xxx - xxxx in the end user market.

This gives a really bad impression of the value of domains to external eyes especially as end users are not yet educated very well in the elements that give a domain value. So unless they know to do so an end user will not be thinking of things like age, sector, PPC price potential, past domain sales, development potential, monetisation potential etc and all the other things that add value to domains - they just see two word domains being sold for low prices and are likely to think if domains are being sold for that why would I pay more which will stop the right type of prices being paid for names that do carry all the attributes that add value.

On another note - at the risk of setting a cat amongst the pigeons I would go as far to say that I don't think that there are that many domainers that actually know what names are valuable and what aren't as many domainers have a very blinkered view of how the marketing world works and an even more blinkered view of how exact match influences SEO potential. The way I see it domainers tend to value by what has happened in the past and what they have decided marketers are after For this reason I think many names are being sold at bargain basement prices when they shouldn't be and similarly I think names that would be snapped up by domainers if they realised true value are being left on the shelf.

The fact is the internet has evolved as has digital marketing and I strongly believe it is the future that should be looked at when valuing domains and the future is one of two things - "development potential" or "branding potential" or both . A domain is valuable because of the ROI it is set to bring the purchaser and how that ROI is going to be obtained are the things that should be studied when valuing domain names. This point stands whether domains are being sold to investors or end users as either way it is ultimately the development potential of the domain or the branding potential or both that carry the value.

I do think domainers get the branding element on the whole but when it comes to the development potential side my view is that the way in which domainers value domains needs a drastic overhaul and if this were to happen a lot of names that you see in the bargain basement section definitely would not be there with xx price tags. I also think you would see a lot of domainers buying a lot more names at reasonable prices and the problem you mention about expectations in the "domain wanted" section may well be alleviated by this process.

 

[Blossom]

many domainers have a very blinkered view of how the marketing world works and an even more blinkered view of how exact match influences SEO potential. The way I see it domainers tend to value by what has happened in the past and what they have decided marketers are after For this reason I think many names are being sold at bargain basement prices when they shouldn't be and similarly I think names that would be snapped up by domainers if they realised true value are being left on the shelf.

This so much.

EMDs are incredibly overrated on here, and I think that's because of the issue of trying to put a value on a domain. Exact match is simply easier to judge.

 

[cc976a]

This type of thread has reared it's head up from time to time on here.

End users tend to know the domains they want. They type in to the address bar, either find it's used or perhaps a sales / Sedo parking page and either make a bid or look for something else.

Yes the world has gone digital, and big to small businesses need a domain name. Doesn't mean they understand the principles and know what we know here. I know lots of SMEs that just kept searching for names until one was available - not knowing what to do next.

Some ideas to help:

- People to post their entire portfolio's in a separate (well promoted on home page) area. Imagine new domainers, developers and even end users being able to see and search everyone's domains on here. Thousands of good (and yes some bad) very easy to see and search on etc.... creating a mini Sedo. Doesn't need to take away some of the forum areas, as these can be used to Market specific names with a sale price, clear-out etc....

- Articles and content written by members which are search engine friendly trying to catch some of those searching for content about domains, buying domains, getting the right domains, benefits of buying generic domains (sure Edwin could make a post or two!)

- Promotion on the home page of some of the names in the new portfolios area or sales threads;


Let's face it, apart from all us hopeful sods looking for that bargain each day, or sell something we've been sitting on for a while - nothings really moving and nothing is likely to change that. We have some very creative, successful and passionate people - yet we're not looking at Acorn as the successful sales platform this can be. Also give Alan a chance to be repaid back for all the hard work he's put in to these forums often with critism and little thanks.

I know these ideas take the site a little away from a generic forum, but we all know how to grow and adapt with our own businesses. If we are all willing to help with knowledge, ideas, skills etc...

Let's get off the soap boxes and do something about it!

 

[domsaleuk]

This type of thread has reared it's head up from time to time on here.

End users tend to know the domains they want. They type in to the address bar, either find it's used or perhaps a sales / Sedo parking page and either make a bid or look for something else.

Whilst I see what you are saying and think you are right for some end users – these days I think there are just as many that don’t know exactly what they want, or know that what they want has gone and thus may be out of their budget and would like to find similar domains but don’t know where to go, and I don’t think end users generally know how to look up domain ownership on the WHOIS.


Some ideas to help:

People to post their entire portfolio's in a separate (well promoted on home page) area. Imagine new domainers, developers and even end users being able to see and search everyone's domains on here. Thousands of good (and yes some bad) very easy to see and search on etc.... creating a mini Sedo. Doesn't need to take away some of the forum areas, as these can be used to Market specific names with a sale price, clear-out etc....

I totally agree that users need a clear path to a place where they can search through domains and email or pick up the phone to negotiate a sale on any domain they are interested in. This is however a big job and I wonder whether the publication of a “portfolio” on Acorn (if that were to be possible) should be focused on “quality” domains ? or names that should fetch say xxxx + but this kind of thing would need to be discussed not least to decide upon what defines "quality"

As for the rest of your points re articles being added, SEO etc, I think they are all good ideas that could help greatly and need further discussion

Let's face it, apart from all us hopeful sods looking for that bargain each day, or sell something we've been sitting on for a while - nothings really moving and nothing is likely to change that. We have some very creative, successful and passionate people - yet we're not looking at Acorn as the successful sales platform this can be. Also give Alan a chance to be repaid back for all the hard work he's put in to these forums often with critism and little thanks.

Yes – I believe Acorn could be instrumental in helping take domains mainstream in the UK if a good strategy is devised and in turn this could help the site generate revenue going forward.

Let's get off the soap boxes and do something about it!

I totally agree – but we need the soap boxes to bring the domain community together on this I have spent money and a lot of time recently creating a site that I will launch very soon that will hopefully help a little with one side of the jigsaw – i.e. getting info out to the marketing / media community and with my background and digital marketing knowledge I hope to make some sort of impact here. But we all need to pull together in whatever way we can and do whatever we can as I genuinely believe the biggest changes needed – have to come from the domain community. One of the main things I think needs to be established is a clear method to assign value to domains. It may not be 100% correct but the community should devise it for themselves and it should be based upon historical data, branding and development potential and marketer expectations.

Personally I think discussion needs to be continued properly -perhaps in an offline arena to actually get to the root of these issues and create a plan.

 

[sdsinc]

I was going to post something too obvious maybe, but domainers are cash-strapped and already have vast inventories to sell.

I used to post in the Domains wanted sections of domaining forum only when looking for domains that I would develop as an end user. But I gave up because of too many irrelevant replies.

Likewise, when responding to Wanted requests, this has almost never resulted in a sale. So why bother if you're going to sell at domainer price anyway.

Besides... this pretty sums up everything:

End users tend to know the domains they want. They type in to the address bar, either find it's used or perhaps a sales / Sedo parking page and either make a bid or look for something else.

 

[Brassneck]

I was going to post something too obvious maybe, but domainers are cash-strapped and already have vast inventories to sell.

I used to post in the Domains wanted sections of domaining forum only when looking for domains that I would develop as an end user. But I gave up because of too many irrelevant replies.

Likewise, when responding to Wanted requests, this has almost never resulted in a sale. So why bother if you're going to sell at domainer price anyway.

Besides... this pretty sums up everything:

Yes - spot on.

 

[lethal0r]

i think i've posted in the wanted sections a couple of times, and similar sections on other sites. people ask for a lot of money all the time.

As someone who cannot afford more than low three figures for a domain its much easier to buy domains that people are selling, because the prices are much more realistic.

maybe the wanted sections are just for the bigger players?