Corona please read very important

[diablo]

Always a good idea to compare like with like.

Scandinavian countries are socially, politically, and geographically similar, but to date only Sweden has chosen a more relaxed approach to lockdown.

Deaths as of today:

Sweden 591 people have died after testing positive (pop. 10.12m)

Norway 69 (pop. 5.4m)

Finland 34 (pop. 5.5m)

Denmark 187 (pop 5.6m)

 

[Edwin]

"Experts are warning against over-interpreting daily figures of people dying with Covid-19, since they often reflect reporting delays. Spikes or dips may in part reflect bottlenecks in the reporting system, rather than real changes in the trend."

That would make sense since yesterday it was reported only 439 people passed away and now today a big jump

Yes, exactly the same happened last weekend too. Two days of drops, followed by a big jump.

But today's big jump took us higher than the previous big jump. More clarity should come later in the week.

 

[starbird]

Like Scotland, the jump is due to how weekend deaths are announced. The pattern has been the same for weeks. Weekend deaths are not properly added until a couple of days into the new week.

 

[Edwin]

Like Scotland, the jump is due to how weekend deaths are announced. The pattern has been the same for weeks. Weekend deaths are not properly added until a couple of days into the new week.

The annoying thing is, the media plays the game every weekend of pretending that there's potentially a real downturn (up the top of the article) before explaining later (deep in the article) that the downturn is because of reporting delays.

But most people will only read the headline and maybe the first paragraph or two, and may feel able to relax their own lockdown behaviour under false pretenses.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Always a good idea to compare like with like.

Scandinavian countries are socially, politically, and geographically similar, but to date only Sweden has chosen a more relaxed approach to lockdown.

Deaths as of today:

Sweden 591 people have died after testing positive (pop. 10.12m)

Norway 69 (pop. 5.4m)

Finland 34 (pop. 5.5m)

Denmark 187 (pop 5.6m)

I get;

Sweden 591 people have died after testing positive (pop. 10.12m)

Norway 69 (pop. 5.4m) 83

Finland 34 (pop. 5.5m) 34

Denmark 187 (pop 5.6m) 203

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html​

 

[Gill]

Scandinavian countries are socially, politically, and geographically similar, but to date only Sweden has chosen a more relaxed approach to lockdown.

That's not actually correct, the Scandinavians are very different. The Danish personality is Germanic by nature, Finns are more closely related to the Baltic states and Northern Russia. The Norwegians and Swedes are at face value similar (certainly in language and culture) but are actually very different personality wise. Norwegians believe that Swedes are weak and never question things (it's true) and Swedes believe Norwegians are stupid (they have lots of jokes similar to what the British would have about the Irish).

On the whole Swedes are stoic, pragmatic and insular people who aren't prone to drama which is why they've been able to have this experiment and why there won't be any repercussions for the Swedish government. In short they just get on with it, their attitude will be that if people die it's because this is a bad virus that kills people.

 

[diablo]

That's not actually correct, the Scandinavians are very different. The Danish personality is Germanic by nature, Finns are more closely related to the Baltic states and Northern Russia. The Norwegians and Swedes are at face value similar (certainly in language and culture) but are actually very different personality wise. Norwegians believe that Swedes are weak and never question things (it's true) and Swedes believe Norwegians are stupid (they have lots of jokes similar to what the British would have about the Irish).

On the whole Swedes are stoic, pragmatic and insular people who aren't prone to drama which is why they've been able to have this experiment and why there won't be any repercussions for the Swedish government. In short they just get on with it, their attitude will be that if people die it's because this is a bad virus that kills people.

I'm not saying they are identical, but they are similar.

I have family in (and from) Norway and know that Sweden and Norway are far more alike than Sweden and the UK.

Denmark is more Germanic in nature as you say, but I'm including them for completeness: if I hadn't, it would have been misleading as they are considered part of Scandinavia.

 

[diablo]

I get;

Sweden 591 people have died after testing positive (pop. 10.12m)

Norway 69 (pop. 5.4m) 83

Finland 34 (pop. 5.5m) 34

Denmark 187 (pop 5.6m) 203

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html​

I quoted official government figures.

For example Norway:

69 deaths have been notified to the NIPH (as of 07.04.2020 at 08:00). The average age is 84 years (from 51 to 102 years) and 54 % are male.

https://www.fhi.no/en/id/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/daily-reports/daily-reports-COVID19/

Denmark's figure has been updated to 203 since I looked earlier.

https://www.ssi.dk/aktuelt/sygdomsudbrud/coronavirus

 

[Gill]

I'm not saying they are identical, but they are similar.

I have family in (and from) Norway and know that Sweden and Norway are far more alike than Sweden and the UK.

The point I was trying to make is that you'd have never gotten away with the same experiment in Norway or Denmark (I don't know enough about Finland to give an opinion). The Swedes believe in the state and trust it implicitly and stark as the figures are, the Swedes will accept that the govt wouldn't do anything to cause people deliberate harm and that it was an experiment that didn't work out.

 

[diablo]

The point I was trying to make is that you'd have never gotten away with the same experiment in Norway or Denmark (I don't know enough about Finland to give an opinion). The Swedes believe in the state and trust it implicitly and stark as the figures are, the Swedes will accept that the govt wouldn't do anything to cause people deliberate harm and that it was an experiment that didn't work out.

We'll have to disagree there. One of my first memories of Oslo was the ticketing system on the trams: it was done on an honesty basis. You punched a hole in your own ticket to say you had used the tram. Can you imagine a similar system working in the UK? People would use the same ticket for life. When I asked why would you punch a ticket when you didn't have to, the reply was why wouldn't you?

 

[Gill]

You'd find the same level of honesty in Germany, Denmark and Sweden, they're conformist countries. For example, in Denmark, you couldn't give a client a bottle of whisky as a Christmas gift because it could be construed as a bribe. We're missing the point though, what I'm saying is that the Swedish experiment was only possible in Sweden and that's because the population trusts the state implicitly, interestingly despite the figures, parts of the Swedish media are saying that introducing emergency powers is a bad decision that could make things worse.

 

[diablo]

You'd find the same level of honesty in Germany, Denmark and Sweden, they're conformist countries. For example, in Denmark, you couldn't give a client a bottle of whisky as a Christmas gift because it could be construed as a bribe. We're missing the point though, what I'm saying is that the Swedish experiment was only possible in Sweden and that's because the population trusts the state implicitly, interestingly despite the figures, parts of the Swedish media are saying that introducing emergency powers is a bad decision that could make things worse.

Like I say, we will need to disagree. I see Norway and Sweden are far more alike than Sweden and the UK, hence my use of them for comparison. You say yourself that they are both conformist countries, but you are welcome to compare Sweden with any country you choose.

 

[diablo]

As for Swedes trusting the state implicitly, that no longer seems to be true. Trust of political institutions in Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland is also remarkably similar:

 

[BREWSTERS]

My local health trust used to put out details of any deaths almost daily, but now this message has been posted on their site;

Due to the way NHS England/Improvement announce the figures relating to COVID-19 cases, we are unable to provide any further details to those announced each day at 2pm. NHS England announce the figures on the following web link. https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/.

 

[Edwin]

Here's a tool that provides an estimate of the number of people infected with symptomatic coronavirus in each area of the UK. It's based on the "Covid Symptom Tracker" app that allows people to self-declare how they're feeling, which has been downloaded (I think) several million times.
https://covid.joinzoe.com/data

Of course since it's based on self-reporting not on testing, it can't tell you anything about asymptomatic cases. But it's still interesting to see that there are some "hotspots" that have much more prevalent cases than other areas.

 

[Admin]

Here's a tool that provides an estimate of the number of people infected with symptomatic coronavirus in each area of the UK. It's based on the "Covid Symptom Tracker" app that allows people to self-declare how they're feeling, which has been downloaded (I think) several million times.
https://covid.joinzoe.com/data

Of course since it's based on self-reporting not on testing, it can't tell you anything about asymptomatic cases. But it's still interesting to see that there are some "hotspots" that have much more prevalent cases than other areas.

Last update 1 April....lol hardly worth it, that's so poor.

 

[Murray]

Wuhan finally lifts 11 week lockdown

 

[diablo]

Interesting piece from the NY Times: Where have all the heart attacks gone?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/...itals-emergency-care-heart-attack-stroke.html

 

[keys]

Where have all the heart attacks gone?

Perhaps common triggers for heart attacks are indirectly avoided as a consequence of measure to deal with CV. Less stress and more rest.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Interesting piece from the NY Times: Where have all the heart attacks gone?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/...itals-emergency-care-heart-attack-stroke.html

I can't read it as not signed up to NYTimes, but I'm guessing it's reporting that CV deaths are being counted, whereas in previous years those deaths would be counted as heart attacks, pneumonia etc?

Similar to Inproprtion2 showing the dramatic drop in other causes of death being reported, while CV deaths increase. Which is my point, ie, 'died with' or 'died of'. It seems people dying of other things, are being added to the numbers for CV.

Also, if you check this out - https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/ then go to COVID 19 daily announced deaths 8 April 2020 and then Daily Deaths By Region,
It shows the daily figure of 828 is actually made up of deaths going back over a month. The question is...are these the actual confirmed number of people who 'died of' CV after autopsy? IE, is the actual total number of CV deaths 828 and not 6483?

Or is this daily total the sum of previously unreported deaths?