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Corona please read very important

Discussion in 'The Bar' started by dougs, Mar 15, 2020.

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  1. bonusmedia

    bonusmedia Well-Known Member

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    There are so many factors that it's very difficult to compare like with like, as the professionals keep saying.
    Population density is a major one.
    In Italy and Spain you have a lot of people living in densely clustered apartment blocks, whereas in the UK we have a much higher proportion of houses.

    Anyone using Sweden to argue that lockdown is unnecessary is risking serious harms.
    One person
    deciding to break the rules because they don't believe public health advice can cause mass casualties. It is more important than ever to counter this stuff.

    Looking ahead, when we do get a vaccine, there are going to be anti-vax people shouting about it. We'll have to deal with that somehow or other, I would like to see zero tolerance.
     
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  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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    articles.co.uk
     
  3. diablo

    diablo Well-Known Member

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    Germany % of population over 65 21.46%

    Sweden % of population over 65 20.1%

    (World Bank figures, 2018)
     
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  4. Murray

    Murray Well-Known Member

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    Zero tolerance on people questioning if it's bad for you or refusing to have it?
     
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  5. bonusmedia

    bonusmedia Well-Known Member

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    Zero tolerance for sharing misinformation, pop theories, nonsense from conspiracy sites etc.

    Genuine/honest questioning where folks want answers from experts is never a problem.
    'Questions' where the goal is to spread doubt to support a conspiracist agenda definitely are.

    I wouldn't support literally forcing anyone to have it, but you can achieve nearly the same by making it a condition of accessing public services. E.g. some places with measles outbreaks because of low vaccination rates have made school attendance conditional on being vaccinated.

    Of course there will be some (immuno-compromised etc) who won't be able to be vaccinated, which makes it all the more important that those who can, do.
     
  6. LCHappy United Kingdom

    LCHappy Active Member

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    Who decides what a conspiracy theory is?

    When you say zero tolerance, you mean like executed in the street? :D
     
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  7. diablo

    diablo Well-Known Member

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    On Sunday Sweden reported a total of 401 deaths so far from Covid-19 and acknowledged delays in reporting meant the actual number was likely to be considerably higher.

    The figure was up 8% from Saturday and is greater than the totals of its three Nordic neighbours combined.

    Sweden’s toll per million inhabitants is 37, compared with 28 in Denmark, 12 in Norway and 4.5 in Finland.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ten-coronavirus-measures-as-death-toll-climbs

    UPDATE UK deaths reported today 621.

    Today's number for Sweden adjusted to UK population size 2,632 (UK deaths 4,934)
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
  8. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    FYI, the Queen will address the nation tonight at 8pm on BBC1, ITV and Channel 5 (I presume Channel 4 will break into their news coverage to show it too).
     
  9. BREWSTERS United Kingdom

    BREWSTERS Well-Known Member

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    The UK figure (for deaths today) is up 14%.


    UK's toll per million inhabitants is 74 - that's double Sweden's. 2.6 times Denmark's, 6 times Norway's and 17 times Finland's.

    Something wrong with numbers like these...looks like someone is falsely boosting numbers.

    ------------------

    In a world first, the Swedish government has announced that it is going to officially distinguish between deaths „by“ and deaths „with“ the coronavirus, which should lead to a reduction in reported deaths. Meanwhile, for some reason, international pressure on Sweden to abandon its liberal strategy is steadily increasing. - https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/
     
  10. newguy United Kingdom

    newguy Well-Known Member

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    Good point. I can only imagine how much it all ramps up due to one person in a household having it, and it spreading to other family members. It's clearly very contagious and so even with the best will in the world, it's likely with most peoples home setups that other family members will catch it.
     
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  11. Murray

    Murray Well-Known Member

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    Do as we say, not as we do

     
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  12. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    It's only in prototype form, and there's no telling whether it will be taken up by governments or not, but Tesla have created a ventilator using (mainly) Tesla car parts.

    That's smart, in the sense that it doesn't take away from the hugely competitive and rapidly diminishing stock of existing medical components. But of course that may make it harder to get regulatory approval for. Still, it's good to see something real(ish) and working in the lab.

     
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  13. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    The UK is...

    7th for total coronavirus deaths
    10th for coronavirus deaths per 1,000,000 population

    11th for total number of coronavirus tests
    50th for number of coronavirus tests per 1,000,000 population

    So testing is very clearly lacking given the tiny penetration of tests compared to the overall population of the UK.

    We knew that already, of course, but these figures make it much starker.

    Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
     
  14. BREWSTERS United Kingdom

    BREWSTERS Well-Known Member

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    UK is 4th for deaths.
     
  15. BREWSTERS United Kingdom

    BREWSTERS Well-Known Member

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    What hope have any of us got in making informed opinions when we get things like this...both these statements are from the same BBC webpage;

    "Infections and deaths have fallen in Spain and Italy in recent days - suggesting lockdowns have worked"

    &

    "Australia's curve appears to be flattening, despite the nation not entering a full lockdown as seen in other nations."
     
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  16. Admin

    Admin Administrator Staff Member

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    @bonusmedia @BREWSTERS - It is you two that will force me to close this thread. Your choice, reign it in or...
     
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  17. dee

    dee Well-Known Member Acorn Supporter

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    I reckon ive had this. And its bloody horrible. Now day 10 of complete lockdown in the house with the family and everyone going stir crazy. No temperature. No fever but most of the other symptoms. Legs literally buckling at the slightest bit of physical exertion and being totally breathless.

    Had a message from firend last night. His 74 year neighbour has just died from it. Visited family about 3 week ago. Got a cough and went rapidly downhill. Generaly fit and healthy.

    I DO NOT WANT MY PARENTS GETTING IT.

    I don't care what the conspiracy theory is. It's pi**ing me off looking out the window and seeing groups of idiot teenagers who have ripped the tape of the gates of the kids park and are in there acting like muppets in groups of 5 of 6. Watching the local news to see people out acting like nothing is happening. Being selfish arseholes. People aren't getting it and people that dont need to will die because of it. Why take the risk ? If we are wrong then i'll happily take as many " i told you so's" down the road. Gloat away. Trouble is, as @Edwin said, its a totally one sided bet.
     
  18. Murray

    Murray Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear that, hope you and family feel better soon
     
  19. LCHappy United Kingdom

    LCHappy Active Member

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    Sorry you have had it and I'm glad you are on the mend but let's not get things confused here. When I and others round here had exactly the same symptoms late last year, I didn't call for a lock down, I didn't call for people not to go to work to pay for the health service that I could have depended upon.

    People always catch something, people have always died from catching something, that's life. Some innocent people will die from this, that is life. Some innocent people get run over and killed by drunk drivers, we don't ban cars from the road. It's life.

    By the way, your parents might find their private pension stops paying out in 8 weeks. I hope everyone that is happy for a total lock down then look their elderly relatives in the eye say it's for your own good as they can no longer afford to turn on the hot water for a wash. Wait until to see how many people get killed by not washing correctly?

    We have to take the emotion out of this and look at the numbers or more people will die.
     
  20. dee

    dee Well-Known Member Acorn Supporter

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    Thanks. Think on the upslope, and on the grand scheme of things got away lightly i think . Havent been that blitzed since having very bad glandular fever about 12 years ago. Was out of it for 3 months back then. This is nasty. I can see how if you have any underlaying conditions its going to hammer you. Cant say for sure as havent been tested, but would suspect its it.

    For context, i'm 49 and pretty fit and healthy. On average I cycle about 10 miles a day back and forth, walk everywhere rather than drive etc im not overweight ( well, maybe a tad but nothing even vaguely serious) and eat healithy with the kids/family.

    It's totally caned me, and obviously doesnt discriminate. Seems like a bit of a lottery as too what it does to some people. Stay safe and inside peeps. You dont want it.
     
  21. dee

    dee Well-Known Member Acorn Supporter

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    Totally get that. And its not about emotions for me. Its about not getting enough people seriously ill in one go that the system cant cope. There is no immunity....we all know what it is, and I suspect we'll mostly all be getting it in some form unless theres a vaccine developed soon.
     
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