20i Reseller Hosting

Corona please read very important

Discussion in 'The Bar' started by dougs, Mar 15, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. BREWSTERS United Kingdom

    BREWSTERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2007
    Posts:
    2,398
    Likes Received:
    77
    I get;

    Sweden 591 people have died after testing positive (pop. 10.12m)

    Norway 69 (pop. 5.4m) 83


    Finland 34 (pop. 5.5m) 34


    Denmark 187 (pop 5.6m) 203


    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

    Joined:
    1999
    Messages:
    Many
    Likes Received:
    Lots
    articles.co.uk
     
  3. Gill United Kingdom

    Gill Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2019
    Posts:
    75
    Likes Received:
    9
    That's not actually correct, the Scandinavians are very different. The Danish personality is Germanic by nature, Finns are more closely related to the Baltic states and Northern Russia. The Norwegians and Swedes are at face value similar (certainly in language and culture) but are actually very different personality wise. Norwegians believe that Swedes are weak and never question things (it's true) and Swedes believe Norwegians are stupid (they have lots of jokes similar to what the British would have about the Irish).

    On the whole Swedes are stoic, pragmatic and insular people who aren't prone to drama which is why they've been able to have this experiment and why there won't be any repercussions for the Swedish government. In short they just get on with it, their attitude will be that if people die it's because this is a bad virus that kills people.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. diablo

    diablo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2005
    Posts:
    1,869
    Likes Received:
    88
    I'm not saying they are identical, but they are similar.

    I have family in (and from) Norway and know that Sweden and Norway are far more alike than Sweden and the UK.

    Denmark is more Germanic in nature as you say, but I'm including them for completeness: if I hadn't, it would have been misleading as they are considered part of Scandinavia.
     
  5. diablo

    diablo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2005
    Posts:
    1,869
    Likes Received:
    88
    I quoted official government figures.

    For example Norway:

    69 deaths have been notified to the NIPH (as of 07.04.2020 at 08:00). The average age is 84 years (from 51 to 102 years) and 54 % are male.

    https://www.fhi.no/en/id/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/daily-reports/daily-reports-COVID19/

    Denmark's figure has been updated to 203 since I looked earlier.

    https://www.ssi.dk/aktuelt/sygdomsudbrud/coronavirus
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  6. Gill United Kingdom

    Gill Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2019
    Posts:
    75
    Likes Received:
    9
    The point I was trying to make is that you'd have never gotten away with the same experiment in Norway or Denmark (I don't know enough about Finland to give an opinion). The Swedes believe in the state and trust it implicitly and stark as the figures are, the Swedes will accept that the govt wouldn't do anything to cause people deliberate harm and that it was an experiment that didn't work out.
     
  7. diablo

    diablo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2005
    Posts:
    1,869
    Likes Received:
    88
    We'll have to disagree there. One of my first memories of Oslo was the ticketing system on the trams: it was done on an honesty basis. You punched a hole in your own ticket to say you had used the tram. Can you imagine a similar system working in the UK? People would use the same ticket for life. When I asked why would you punch a ticket when you didn't have to, the reply was why wouldn't you?
     
  8. Gill United Kingdom

    Gill Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2019
    Posts:
    75
    Likes Received:
    9
    You'd find the same level of honesty in Germany, Denmark and Sweden, they're conformist countries. For example, in Denmark, you couldn't give a client a bottle of whisky as a Christmas gift because it could be construed as a bribe. We're missing the point though, what I'm saying is that the Swedish experiment was only possible in Sweden and that's because the population trusts the state implicitly, interestingly despite the figures, parts of the Swedish media are saying that introducing emergency powers is a bad decision that could make things worse.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. diablo

    diablo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2005
    Posts:
    1,869
    Likes Received:
    88
    Like I say, we will need to disagree. I see Norway and Sweden are far more alike than Sweden and the UK, hence my use of them for comparison. You say yourself that they are both conformist countries, but you are welcome to compare Sweden with any country you choose.
     
  10. diablo

    diablo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2005
    Posts:
    1,869
    Likes Received:
    88
    As for Swedes trusting the state implicitly, that no longer seems to be true. Trust of political institutions in Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland is also remarkably similar:

    upload_2020-4-7_17-22-56.png
     
  11. BREWSTERS United Kingdom

    BREWSTERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2007
    Posts:
    2,398
    Likes Received:
    77
    My local health trust used to put out details of any deaths almost daily, but now this message has been posted on their site;

    Due to the way NHS England/Improvement announce the figures relating to COVID-19 cases, we are unable to provide any further details to those announced each day at 2pm. NHS England announce the figures on the following web link. https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/.
     
  12. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2005
    Posts:
    9,922
    Likes Received:
    577
    Here's a tool that provides an estimate of the number of people infected with symptomatic coronavirus in each area of the UK. It's based on the "Covid Symptom Tracker" app that allows people to self-declare how they're feeling, which has been downloaded (I think) several million times.
    https://covid.joinzoe.com/data

    Of course since it's based on self-reporting not on testing, it can't tell you anything about asymptomatic cases. But it's still interesting to see that there are some "hotspots" that have much more prevalent cases than other areas.
     
  13. Admin

    Admin Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2004
    Posts:
    10,906
    Likes Received:
    351
    Last update 1 April....lol hardly worth it, that's so poor.
     
  14. Murray

    Murray Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2012
    Posts:
    3,995
    Likes Received:
    343
    Wuhan finally lifts 11 week lockdown

     
  15. diablo

    diablo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2005
    Posts:
    1,869
    Likes Received:
    88
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. keys United Kingdom

    keys Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2004
    Posts:
    2,011
    Likes Received:
    107
    Perhaps common triggers for heart attacks are indirectly avoided as a consequence of measure to deal with CV. Less stress and more rest.
     
  17. BREWSTERS United Kingdom

    BREWSTERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2007
    Posts:
    2,398
    Likes Received:
    77

    I can't read it as not signed up to NYTimes, but I'm guessing it's reporting that CV deaths are being counted, whereas in previous years those deaths would be counted as heart attacks, pneumonia etc?

    Similar to Inproprtion2 showing the dramatic drop in other causes of death being reported, while CV deaths increase. Which is my point, ie, 'died with' or 'died of'. It seems people dying of other things, are being added to the numbers for CV.

    Also, if you check this out - https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/ then go to COVID 19 daily announced deaths 8 April 2020 and then Daily Deaths By Region,
    It shows the daily figure of 828 is actually made up of deaths going back over a month. The question is...are these the actual confirmed number of people who 'died of' CV after autopsy? IE, is the actual total number of CV deaths 828 and not 6483?

    Or is this daily total the sum of previously unreported deaths?
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  18. diablo

    diablo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2005
    Posts:
    1,869
    Likes Received:
    88
    Sorry, an extract follows, but it is basically saying heart attack hospital admissions are way down.

    "The hospitals are eerily quiet, except for Covid-19.

    I have heard this sentiment from fellow doctors across the United States and in many other countries. We are all asking: Where are all the patients with heart attacks and stroke? They are missing from our hospitals.

    Yale New Haven Hospital, where I work, has almost 300 people stricken with Covid-19, and the numbers keep rising — and yet we are not yet at capacity because of a marked decline in our usual types of patients. In more normal times, we never have so many empty beds.

    Our hospital is usually so full that patients wait in gurneys along the walls of the emergency department for a bed to become available on the general wards or even in the intensive care unit. We send people home from the hospital as soon as possible so we can free up beds for those who are waiting. But the pandemic has caused a previously unimaginable shift in the demand for hospital services.

    Some of the excess capacity is indeed by design. We canceled elective procedures, though many of those patients never needed hospitalization. We are now providing care at home through telemedicine, but those services are for stable outpatients, not for those who are acutely ill.

    What is striking is that many of the emergencies have disappeared. Heart attack and stroke teams, always poised to rush in and save lives, are mostly idle. This is not just at my hospital. My fellow cardiologists have shared with me that their cardiology consultations have shrunk, except those related to Covid-19. In an informal Twitter poll by @angioplastyorg, an online community of cardiologists, almost half of the respondents reported that they are seeing a 40 percent to 60 percent reduction in admissions for heart attacks; about 20 percent reported more than a 60 percent reduction."

    Same is happening in Spain.

    The punchline is that if people don't seek treatment, they are more likely to die.

    https://www.recintervcardiol.org/es/?option=com_content&view=article&id=344&catid=14

    "A significant reduction in healthcare activity was observed during the COVID-19 epidemic and a great decrease in the number of patients treated with STEMI, with the risk of increased morbidity and mortality that this implies. Scientific societies and health authorities should promote that patients with STEMI-compatible symptoms demand assistance from the health system in order to receive reperfusion treatment appropriately."
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. diablo

    diablo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2005
    Posts:
    1,869
    Likes Received:
    88
  20. BREWSTERS United Kingdom

    BREWSTERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2007
    Posts:
    2,398
    Likes Received:
    77
    New claims for Universal Credit benefit hit 1.2m in three weeks amid coronavirus outbreak

    Around 1.2 million people have made claims for Universal Credit (UC) in the last three weeks amid the coronavirus outbreak.

    Work and Pensions Secretary Therese Coffey added the number of new claims had fallen to just under 40,000 in a day, although this compared to an average daily figure of between 10,000 to 12,000.

    She confirmed the numbers after the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) revealed calls to the UC helpline soared beyond two million on March 30 and totalled 5.8 million over a seven-day period.

    The DWP also earlier said it received more than one million claims for UC between March 16 and April 3.

    This compares to approximately 55,000 claims "in a normal week", according to the department's permanent secretary Peter Schofield. - Source



    And this hasn't even started yet. There are 5.9m SMEs in the UK - how many of these will run out of cash in the next couple of weeks? How many already have? A pub owner I know will run out of cash next week.

    Don't think this isn't going to effect you. This is going to be the Great Depression on steroids.

    92% of the people claimed to have died 'with' CV are 60yo+ and 52% are 80yo+ (average life expectancy is about 81). These are roughly the same for during any period.

    Surely it makes sense to put anyone say 70+ under house arrest instead of everyone.

    Where is the media reporting on what's happening, and going to happen within a few days and weeks? Instead they're saying 9 more emergency hospitals are being built? WTF...on one hand they're saying there aren't enough staff to run current hospitals (though that's BS from what I have been told) and some hospitals are reporting being 'quiet'.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  21. diablo

    diablo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2005
    Posts:
    1,869
    Likes Received:
    88
    BBC ran this related story yesterday.

    Coronavirus: 'Drop in global trade to be worse than 2008 crisis'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52211919

    [​IMG]
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.