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They had 5 years to defend their trademarks.

My view is that their claim to .uk domains now registered by someone else is unjustified unless they can demonstrate the registrant is acting in bad faith.

Of course, a registrant may be content to settle for £750, but in my opinion the sensible defensive step to take is to construct a simple 'about' website, a bit like a brief Wikipedia article about the company, with zero traffic-driving links or monetisation, until such time as the registrant wants to dispose of it. A clear statement that your site is NOT the company site would provide further evidence that you are not trying to 'pass yourself off' as the company.

The companies had ample opportunity to stake their claim. Not to do so was sheer incompetence.
 
Just had a quick look through recent DRS cases. A lot of .uk decisions, as expected.

Here is a David and Goliath story, where the giant lost. It is amusing to see the (anonymous) expert methodically demolishing arguments from expensive IP lawyers. The decision runs to 20 pages. D00021406
 
Just had a quick look through recent DRS cases. A lot of .uk decisions, as expected.

Here is a David and Goliath story, where the giant lost. It is amusing to see the (anonymous) expert methodically demolishing arguments from expensive IP lawyers. The decision runs to 20 pages. D00021406

I'm just looking at another one

D00022059 ovs.co.uk and ovs.uk

How scary is that one? Nokta holds a 3 letter domain name since 2003 and now they were able to take it from them. That's insane interpretation of the rules.
 
I'm just looking at another one

D00022059 ovs.co.uk and ovs.uk

How scary is that one? Nokta holds a 3 letter domain name since 2003 and now they were able to take it from them. That's insane interpretation of the rules.

i think you mean D00022003 , Nokta didnt respond properly refuting the complainants contentions. They simply said "The Complaint in an attempt at Reverse Domain Name Hijacking, and should be recorded as such in the DRS process results" along with correcting the registration date provided by the complainant.

If Nokta had bothered to respond to the (3) reasons the complainant thought the registration was abusive, I believe there would have been a different outcome. In the absence of any response disputing the complainants assertions, what should the expert do?
 
i think you mean D00022003 , Nokta didnt respond properly refuting the complainants contentions. They simply said "The Complaint in an attempt at Reverse Domain Name Hijacking, and should be recorded as such in the DRS process results" along with correcting the registration date provided by the complainant.

If Nokta had bothered to respond to the (3) reasons the complainant thought the registration was abusive, I believe there would have been a different outcome. In the absence of any response disputing the complainants assertions, what should the expert do?

The expert should look at the facts. Nokta held the domains for almost 17 years unchallenged by the rights holder, there is no explanation why the rights holder hasn't challenged that up to now.

The expert goes on to say

"The Respondent is actively involved in the trading of domain names, and under Nominet’s Policy that is of itself unobjectionable. The Policy Paragraph 8.4 provides: “Trading in domain names for profit, and holding a large portfolio of domain names, are of themselves lawful activities. The Expert will review each case on its merits.”

Whereas it is legitimate for the Respondent to trade in domain names, such trade cannot be without restriction. The Respondent must conduct its business in a way which does not exploit or attempt to exploit the rights established by other legitimate enterprises."

Why is he conflating the issue of making a profit with exploiting someone's rights? Either we are free to make whatever profit we see fit, or we are abusing someone's rights. I can't go register fordcars.co.uk and is be fine if I ask for £500, yet an abusive registration if I ask for £5000. The expert is way out of his parish here.

Expert
"There is no direct evidence that when the Respondent registered the Domain Name <ovs.co.uk> on 27th January 2003, that it had the Complainant and its brand and name in mind. Notwithstanding that, given the Respondent’s expertise in the marketplace and the highly unusual combination of letters that make up the Domain Name <ovs.co.uk>, it is entirely plausible that the Respondent did have the Complainant and its brand and name in mind when it registered the Domain Name, and that it considered it would subsequently have the opportunity to sell the Domain Name to the Complainant."

WTF is this expert on about, all 3 letters have been registered for the last 20 years.

Expert
"However, as the Respondent has not responded to the Complainant’s assertion, I accept it to be true that the Respondent has offered the Domain Names for sale for the amount of $ 7,500. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary the Expert decides that $ 7,500 is in in excess of the Respondent's documented out-of-pocket costs directly associated with acquiring or using the Domain Names.
Additionally, without the Complainant paying the Respondent the amount of $ 7,500, the Complainant is blocked from using the Domain Names and this inevitably disrupts the business of the Complainant."

What the flying ****? In excess of costs? Is Nominet deciding how much we can sell these for now?

Nokta had a landing page with his name priced. This wasn't like he started emailing the complainant.
 
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DRS policy is clear enough. If you ignore it in a response, it is likely that you will lose the domain name.

I would expect a seller with 20+ years of experience, and a very large portfolio of domains to be aware of this.
 
DRS policy is clear enough. If you ignore it in a response, it is likely that you will lose the domain name.

"The DRS Policy is clear that, even in a case such as this where the Respondent has not defended his position, the Complainant still has to prove on the balance of probabilities (i.e. that it is more likely than not), first, that it has Rights (as defined in the DRS Policy) in respect of a name or mark that is identical or similar to the Domain Name (Policy, 2.1.1), and, secondly, that the Domain Name is an Abusive Registration (as defined) in the hands of the Respondent (Policy, 2.1.2)."

No way in my opinion the complainants did that.
 
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The expert should look at the facts. Nokta held the domains for almost 17 years unchallenged by the rights holder, there is no explanation why the rights holder hasn't challenged that up to now.

Doesn't matter. Makes no difference. Complainant had a trademark predating the registration.

The expert goes on to say

"The Respondent is actively involved in the trading of domain names, and under Nominet’s Policy that is of itself unobjectionable. The Policy Paragraph 8.4 provides: “Trading in domain names for profit, and holding a large portfolio of domain names, are of themselves lawful activities. The Expert will review each case on its merits.”

Whereas it is legitimate for the Respondent to trade in domain names, such trade cannot be without restriction. The Respondent must conduct its business in a way which does not exploit or attempt to exploit the rights established by other legitimate enterprises."

Why is he conflating the issue of making a profit with exploiting someone's rights? Either we are free to make whatever profit we see fit, or we are abusing someone's rights. I can't go register fordcars.co.uk and is be fine if I ask for £500, yet an abusive registration if I ask for £5000. The expert is way out of his parish here.

Expert already explained. Complainant seemingly has Registered TradeMark Rights and has explained why they are well known by this term which Expert has seemingly accepted. Respondent didn't contest any of this and didn't offer any explanation of why domain name was advertised at £7,500. Are you expecting Expert to go on a fishing trip in order to determine unexplained motives of Respondent?

Expert
"There is no direct evidence that when the Respondent registered the Domain Name <ovs.co.uk> on 27th January 2003, that it had the Complainant and its brand and name in mind. Notwithstanding that, given the Respondent’s expertise in the marketplace and the highly unusual combination of letters that make up the Domain Name <ovs.co.uk>, it is entirely plausible that the Respondent did have the Complainant and its brand and name in mind when it registered the Domain Name, and that it considered it would subsequently have the opportunity to sell the Domain Name to the Complainant."

WTF is this expert on about, all 3 letters have been registered for the last 20 years.

Not exactly true. Thousands of LLL's have been deleted and reregistered almost straight over that period of time, but so what if they have all been taken? All 17,536 of them are unique. None are the same and this one is the only one Complainant is likely interested in. Respondent didn't respond so Expert has a decision about how to move forward and he is not wrong in suggesting it is plausible that Respondent did have Complainant in mind when registration was made, given Respondent didn't respond and say he didn't.

Expert
"However, as the Respondent has not responded to the Complainant’s assertion, I accept it to be true that the Respondent has offered the Domain Names for sale for the amount of $ 7,500. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary the Expert decides that $ 7,500 is in in excess of the Respondent's documented out-of-pocket costs directly associated with acquiring or using the Domain Names.
Additionally, without the Complainant paying the Respondent the amount of $ 7,500, the Complainant is blocked from using the Domain Names and this inevitably disrupts the business of the Complainant."

What the flying ****? In excess of costs? Is Nominet deciding how much we can sell these for now?

It's an Independent Expert who makes the decision and nothing at all to do with Nominet, in the same way as Verisign has nothing at all to do with the UDRP of .com and .net domain names.

Nokta had a landing page with his name priced. This wasn't like he started emailing the complainant.

Respondent didn't say what they had and Complainant appears to have missed that from the annex, but given Respondent didn't respond to contest complaint the Expert has to go on what was presented.

"The DRS Policy is clear that, even in a case such as this where the Respondent has not defended his position, the Complainant still has to prove on the balance of probabilities (i.e. that it is more likely than not), first, that it has Rights (as defined in the DRS Policy) in respect of a name or mark that is identical or similar to the Domain Name (Policy, 2.1.1), and, secondly, that the Domain Name is an Abusive Registration (as defined) in the hands of the Respondent (Policy, 2.1.2)."

No way in my opinion the complainants did that.

It's all about "the balance of probabilities" and since Respondent didn't reply with anything of substance, and the Complainant ticked all the boxes, why shouldn't the Expert have awarded the domain name to the Complainant?

What more should the Complainant have to provide and/or an Expert have to do in order to succeed in a DRS when a Respondent either doesn't respond or responds with nothing of substance? In this example Complainant seemingly proved extensive and longterm Rights, presented the domain name being advertised significantly above cost without explanation of why it was by Respondent (e.g. Respondent could have replied with something such as "we paid £6000" at auction for it if that were actually true, or anything else but they replied with zilch) and suggested its registration by Respondent blocked them from having it. In the absence of anything of substance submitted by the Respondent, Expert has to make a decision.

If Respondents knew they could guarantee they wouldn't lose a complaint by not responding they'd all do it!
 
Michael, I agree that if someone fails to respond to questions then they run the risk that the uncontested claims of a complainant will be accepted.

But my concern would be this:

The Complainant made a big point that the registrant "presented the domain name being advertised significantly above cost without explanation of why it was".

That is not, of itself, "abusive use".

If I have any domain, then I can sell that domain for as much as someone will bid. That's the market.

I agree that if the registrant had directly approached the company then that could be seen as a ransom demand.

But simply to offer a domain for sale, whether for £5 of £5million, appears reasonable practice.

On a general point, I feel strongly that trademark holders should not get a free pass to requisition... this specific domain... or almost the entire English language. There is a slippery slope risk, if trademarks start to be taken from legitimate registrants who could use their domains for a whole range of purposes, and it should be an absolute right of individuals to register almost any word in the English language (or strings of numbers of letters) UNLESS it can be demonstrated that they are pretending to be the company of a trademark holder, which being on an auction site clearly doesn't, OR they are demanding money from the company for the release of a name. In this case they weren't. The company had as much freedom as anyone else to bid on the name, and then in an ordinary market, the highest bidder wins. Or the registrant can simply decide not to sell. Yes that's a kind of cyber-squatting, but then millions of domain names are sat on and don't resolve.

I'm not clear - in specifics - what the Registrant has done wrong. (Albeit, it would have been wise to respond to questions.)

Nor am I appreciative of companies swooping in and requisitioning other people's domain names. Not if zero abuse was going on.
 
Doesn't matter. Makes no difference. Complainant had a trademark predating the registration.

Yes it does absolutely matter. Rules on trademarks are clear, trademark abuses must be defended almost immediately, or trademarks are void. Nominet don't have the power to null TM's but in any case it needs to be asked why they haven't been in touch in 17 years. It wasn't.

Complainant seemingly has Registered TradeMark Rights and has explained why they are well known by this term which Expert has seemingly accepted.

Nokta has tens of thousands of .co.uk and .uk names,they have only ever had 2 DRS's against them. Other was back in 2004. There is no history of registering trademarks.

Not exactly true. Thousands of LLL's have been deleted and reregistered almost straight over that period of time, but so what if they have all been taken? All 17,536 of them are unique. None are the same and this one is the only one Complainant is likely interested in. Respondent didn't respond so Expert has a decision about how to move forward and he is not wrong in suggesting it is plausible that Respondent did have Complainant in mind when registration was made, given Respondent didn't respond and say he didn't.

Seriously? It says the value is in the LLL and not in the trademark, that is why people register them. That is important because it is key to showing it wasn't an abusive registration.

It's an Independent Expert who makes the decision and nothing at all to do with Nominet, in the same way as Verisign has nothing at all to do with the UDRP of .com and .net domain names.

They expert seems to think this is Nominet's policy. Do Nominet not have a duty to tell him that he has his interpretation wrong? At the very least, Nominet shouldn't be using him again. Ultimately it is down to Nokta to appeal.

Respondent didn't say what they had and Complainant appears to have missed that from the annex, but given Respondent didn't respond to contest complaint the Expert has to go on what was presented.

So now you want the expert to go on a fishing trip and assume that he proactively contacted the complainant when there is zero evidence of that? It was a landing page. They never tried to sell it to the complainant, they tried to sell it to anyone. Yes that "anyone" by default includes the complainant, but only a clown would read that as "trying to sell it to the complainant" and therefore breaching the rules. yet this expert appears to be that very clown.

It's all about "the balance of probabilities" and since Respondent didn't reply with anything of substance, and the Complainant ticked all the boxes, why shouldn't the Expert have awarded the domain name to the Complainant?

There are hundreds of DRS's where the respondent didn't reply and kept the names. If you read the previous DRS's you'll realise that this was so far rogue and off the chart it is unreal.

What more should the Complainant have to provide and/or an Expert have to do in order to succeed in a DRS when a Respondent either doesn't respond or responds with nothing of substance? In this example Complainant seemingly proved extensive and longterm Rights, presented the domain name being advertised significantly above cost without explanation of why it was by Respondent (e.g. Respondent could have replied with something such as "we paid £6000" at auction for it if that were actually true, or anything else but they replied with zilch) and suggested its registration by Respondent blocked them from having it. In the absence of anything of substance submitted by the Respondent, Expert has to make a decision.

I disagree
 
Nominet should review it's internal standards process on this one, anyone 'skilled in the art' could consider that a bad decision has been made here. The question is, do they have the spine for it, or are they always right?
 
OVS may have been less prominent 17 years ago, but they are certainly a major brand now. Offering a domain name, exact match of their TM, for $7,500 USD is an invitation to DRS action.

Seriously, is a startup going to invest big bucks to use the same, even in a class away from OVS TM's, when there are thousands of other three letter combos to choose from? Value of the domain to any other entity appears to be much less.

The long delay is a consideration, but in reality I think this case would be a difficult one to defend, perhaps that is why Nokta did not bother.
 
I guess maybe "offers" (unpriced) might have been less of a flag - assuming the asking price was far in excess of other (non TM) domains they had up for sale. Also, yes, your point could have been a reason why Nokta didn't seem to fight.

I kind of think that sometimes a 'for future development' line, and even a disclaimer that you are *not* the people who have the TM, is safer - and demonstrating you are not trying to trade off their name. If people want a domain enough to pay £7500 for it, I think they'll come looking for you.

I badly needed a specific domain yesterday, so I just made an approach last night. Tonight it's in my locker. And there's at least one individual in this thread who has been really gracious, after I approached them and expressed interest out of the blue (which was really amazing).

OVS is huge, with huge resources. £7500 for them (and probably a negotiated lower price, maybe 5000) would have been negligible. At any point in 17 years they could have made an approach like that.

I think the best thing, to hold on to a name defensively, is to make it bland and clearly not passing off as or exploiting an established company - just a bland, grey information page about, I don't know - Old Violin Sonatas or something. Don't set yourself up as a target.
 
A rather hollow victory, IMHO.

£3k appeal cost, plus cost of expert representation - against domains they offered to sell at 6500 Euro.

A half decent response in the first place might have achieved the same for a lot less, or an acceptable mediation settlement.
 
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Nominet should cover the costs of a successful appeal if their experts make poor decisions.

I had assumed that this might have been one of the new experts, but actually he's been around for donkey's years:
https://www.nominet.uk/meet-our-drs-experts-niall-lawless-a-black-belt-arbitrator/

While I agree with your first statement, in this case the reason for the original decision came down to the claimant stating that the registrant was aware of them and their rights at the time of registration and the respondent not refuting that in any way. Entirely the respondents fault they didn't win in the first place.
 

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