It's time to end the talk of "reg fee"!

[Edwin]

Firstly, I do understand that different folks have different models. Horses for courses, and all that.

However, the problem with selling domain names at firesale prices (which is the situation, if you're talking about £xx sales) is that the model is not sustainable. It may help you dispose of inventory very quickly, but if you wanted to replenish that inventory in today's markets, whether from catches or on the aftermarket, it would almost certainly cost you more than the proceeds from the original sales.

So it's a perfectly valid model if the aim is to make some relatively quick cash and then "get out" but probably not if you want a business that will keep ticking over for years to come.

The other problem with posting large lists of names for people to cherry-pick at a low price is that you end up with fewer and fewer "winners" and more and more middle-of-the-road inventory. So as time goes on, there's less and less that you can firesale quickly when it's time to pay some more bills.

It's the old domain industry math problem...
http://www.acorndomains.co.uk/new-domainers/87951-domain-industry-math.html

I do believe: we as domain resellers have some responsibility in trying our best to recognise the true current position and operating difficulties that many UK companies seem to find in bringing any sort of web presence to the UK market. To try and compare the .com Tld market in pricing and potential value to say the .co.uk ccld market is not good for the overall increasing sales and presence. Indeed some seem to think the markets are even "comparable" - and I don't see this as a good direction at all.

They are broadly comparable, if you slide the "price" dial further to the right for .com. The better the name, the further you would need to slide it (e.g. Business.co.uk is probably a mid-£xxx,xxx name whereas Business.com went for $7,500,000 last time it sold, and would probably fetch that today if it were undeveloped but being sold as is)

After all, the UK online marketing spend is one of the highest in both absolute and percentage terms of any major economy, with 1 in every 4 advertising pounds currently being spent online.

At the same time, sales are cascading from offline to online like a fire hose. This report paints a clear, compelling picture:
http://econsultancy.com/uk/blog/7065-what-is-behind-these-christmas-2010-growth-figures

The fact that some (many?) small businesses are struggling doesn't mean we should lose fact of the bigger picture: there's a TON of money being spent online, and that pile of cash is growing faster than ever.

 

[julian]

I sold WaterproofSuits.co.uk for £50 to someone here and now it's in their portfolio for over a 1.5k! - who is that I wonder?

 

[Edwin]

By the way, it would be really fantastic if everyone could stop posting full domains from my list, including the extension, as they then become search engine spider fodder. Thanks!

 

[cc976a]

Edwin - are you at liberty to say the number of high £xxx and £x,xxx sales you achieve per month?

Obviously you have a model and if you are turning a profit then it's working for you. Personally people, in these climates, appear to want to opt for cheaper brandables with the difference being used for advertising / marketing (smaller numbers of big boys excluded)

Interesting to see if you remain unaffected by this - although with the portfolio and the number of domains you have you will have the chance of appealing to a greater number of users in many different industries if course....

 

[Edwin]

Our average sale price this year has been just over £1,200/name (cheapest was £600) and we've sold "enough" to be in the black for the entire 2011 calendar year if you look at it from a renewals perspective. I hope you'll forgive me not getting more specific than that on a public forum. Oh, and the average is up £20/name on 2010, but I don't think that's enough to be statistically significant. Looking at all our sales since 2006, the average sales price across 6 years' worth of data was a few quid over £900/name.

 

[Brassneck]

Edwin - I'm not sure all the cheap sales on here are 'fire sales'. Everybody is different but I tend to keep a domain for 2 registration cycles - if I don't get any interest then I offer at a reseller price or sometimes allow them to drop. Of course a fair few have already sold within the 4-year period at reasonable resale profit so any I do sell 'cheap' in this way I view as a bonus.

Stephen.

 

[Bailey]

By the way, it would be really fantastic if everyone could stop posting full domains from my list, including the extension, as they then become search engine spider fodder. Thanks!

Indeed. I'm personally never comfortable when anybody uses single examples as some sort of overall reflection anyway.

Lets not also forget about Edwins genuine ability to structure a good sales pitch - Which anybody in sales knows is anything up to 90% of the sales process. The disquiet, and I don't think for one moment that should be misinterperpreted as 'Envy' is when the whole picture is not one that your prepared to paint. But more one that constantly re-enforces your own methodology and skill set.

 

[Brassneck]

Our average sale price this year has been just over £1,200/name (cheapest was £600) and we've sold "enough" to be in the black for the entire 2011 calendar year if you look at it from a renewals perspective. I hope you'll forgive me not getting more specific than that on a public forum. Oh, and the average is up £20/name on 2010, but I don't think that's enough to be statistically significant. Looking at all our sales since 2006, the average sales price across 6 years' worth of data was a few quid over £900/name.

Those are impressive figures and clearly your model works for you.

Is that based on the sales you make from the list on your website, or are there other sales from elsewhere or in other extensions. I know for instance you have some significantly more premium domains than the ones you have priced up on the list.

 

[Edwin]

Edwin - I'm not sure all the cheap sales on here are 'fire sales'. Everybody is different but I tend to keep a domain for 2 registration cycles - if I don't get any interest then I offer at a reseller price or sometimes allow them to drop. Of course a fair few have already sold within the 4-year period at reasonable resale profit so any I do sell 'cheap' in this way I view as a bonus.

I've never done the analysis this way before, but your post prompted me to take a closer look at our 2010 sales. Here's how they broke down (the number of years is how long we held the domains before the sale occurred)

8 years: 2%
7 years: 11%
6 years: 35%
5 years: 15%
4 years: 2%
3 years: 3%
2 years: 6%
1 year: 15%
Less than 1 year: 11%

 

[Edwin]

Those are impressive figures and clearly your model works for you.

Is that based on the sales you make from the list on your website, or are there other sales from elsewhere or in other extensions. I know for instance you have some significantly more premium domains than the ones you have priced up on the list.

There are other sales, but they're not factored into the data I posted above.

 

[anthony]

I've never done the analysis this way before, but your post prompted me to take a closer look at our 2010 sales. Here's how they broke down (the number of years is how long we held the domains before the sale occurred)

8 years: 2%
7 years: 11%
6 years: 35%
5 years: 15%
4 years: 2%
3 years: 3%
2 years: 6%
1 year: 15%
Less than 1 year: 11%

I think people would be interested to see your actual numbers of domains sold year on year, it'll put some meat on the bone, or is that a secret?

 

[websaway]

There are ladies who sell there services for £50, there are other ladies who sell there services for £2000 per night, the product is comparable but the big difference is one thinks there services has a greater value than the other and therefore it has.

 

[cc976a]

I think people would be interested to see your actual numbers of domains sold year on year, it'll put some meat on the bone, or is that a secret?

Edwin - Perhaps one further question (if you can answer and may strengthen the argument) is do you feel you are actively marketing your domain lists to end users, explaining specific benefits to them and their industry - or on the whole people come to / find you?

The 'selling' part maybe the missing link for some waiting for offers on Sedo...

 

[domainseller200]

There are ladies who sell there services for £50, there are other ladies who sell there services for £2000 per night, the product is comparable but the big difference is one thinks there services has a greater value than the other and therefore it has.

So are you saying Edwin is a high class prostitute and Stephen is a heroin addicted street walker ?

 

[rob]

...and stephen is a heroin addicted street walker ?

former!

 

[websaway]

So are you saying Edwin is a high class prostitute and Stephen is a heroin addicted street walker ?

I am of the opinion that Edwin believes his names to be valued at or more than the level he markets them. The names he has registered are the the product of his faith,imagination,intuition, knowledge and foresight. If he valued a name at £20 he would have to ask himself why he registered it in the first place.
I believe there are a few real bargains to be had on this forum for low sums of money but in the main the bulk of names that are touted are low to very low quality and not comparable to Edwins portfolio.

Some of the comments regarding comparable values remind me of something I heard years ago.
A man went to a scrap yard for a second hand door for his fiesta, the scrap merchant said he had one and it would be £50, the buyer said that was too expensive because the scrapyard only a few hundred yards away sold fiesta doors for £20. The scrap merchant asked why he didn't go and buy one there, because they don't have any said the buyer. Oh said the scrap merchant well ours are only £20 when we don't have any.

 

[domainseller200]

I am of the opinion that Edwin believes his names to be valued at or more than the level he markets them. The names he has registered are the the product of his faith,imagination,intuition, knowledge and foresight. If he valued a name at £20 he would have to ask himself why he registered it in the first place.
I believe there are a few real bargains to be had on this forum for low sums of money but in the main the bulk of names that are touted are low to very low quality and not comparable to Edwins portfolio.

Some of the comments regarding comparable values remind me of something I heard years ago.
A man went to a scrap yard for a second hand door for his fiesta, the scrap merchant said he had one and it would be £50, the buyer said that was too expensive because the scrapyard only a few hundred yards away sold fiesta doors for £20. The scrap merchant asked why he didn't go and buy one there, because they don't have any said the buyer. Oh said the scrap merchant well ours are only £20 when we don't have any.

This reminds me of something I also heard years ago. Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

 

[Brassneck]

I am of the opinion that Edwin believes his names to be valued at or more than the level he markets them. The names he has registered are the the product of his faith,imagination,intuition, knowledge and foresight. If he valued a name at £20 he would have to ask himself why he registered it in the first place.
I believe there are a few real bargains to be had on this forum for low sums of money but in the main the bulk of names that are touted are low to very low quality and not comparable to Edwins portfolio.

Some of the comments regarding comparable values remind me of something I heard years ago.
A man went to a scrap yard for a second hand door for his fiesta, the scrap merchant said he had one and it would be £50, the buyer said that was too expensive because the scrapyard only a few hundred yards away sold fiesta doors for £20. The scrap merchant asked why he didn't go and buy one there, because they don't have any said the buyer. Oh said the scrap merchant well ours are only £20 when we don't have any.

If that's a dig at me then I am afraid you have no idea what you are talking about. You've made a thousand posts so obviously been on Acorn for a while, yet made 1 trade according to your rating.

I started with one domain, now have more than 4,000 and about 200 websites, so obviously don't know what I am doing.

 

[wb]

Let's add a bit of fuel to the debate...

Our average sale price this year has been just over £1,200/name (cheapest was £600) and we've sold "enough" to be in the black for the entire 2011 calendar year if you look at it from a renewals perspective.

...

I think people would be interested to see your actual numbers of domains sold year on year, it'll put some meat on the bone, or is that a secret?

Based on 6,000 domains being £3/year renewal would equal £18,000. At an average sales price this year of £1,200/domain, that equals a minimum of 15 sold domains required to break even before the black can be entered. As five complete months have now passed this year, an average of three sales per month at a minimum is my estimate.

Could of course be well out. This is obviously a very broad guesstimate done off the top of my head and probably hasn't taken various factors into account, such as how many domains actually need renewing this year (e.g. there may not be an even distribution of renewal dates).

I believe there are a few real bargains to be had on this forum for low sums of money but in the main the bulk of names that are touted are low to very low quality and not comparable to Edwins portfolio.

If you had the money and it was on offer, would you buy Edwin's portfolio for £50-100 per domain (i.e. the price which many "fire sale" domains come up for)?

 

[Brassneck]

This reminds me of something I also heard years ago. Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

Frank - first you accuse me of being kind of cheap hooker and then you call me an idiot! Charming!

Stephen.