problem with nominet epp?

Perhaps a question to clarify with support @ Nominet. I believe Nominet will only recognise the person or entity detailed in the registrant field as the registrant. This is why we've recently been through a WHOIS privacy consultation and now have the new Nominet WHOIS privacy system in place which takes account of this. Nominet know who the true registrant or a domain name under privacy is.

 

Indeed and if the person shown in the registrant field lets us know that he didn't give permission for the domain to be renewed I'm sure you'll stop looking for excuses without *actually* finding anything out won't you?

 

On that basis should we check with every registrant to ensure that they permitted the renewal of every domain name just in case a registrar allowed domain names to be renewed regardless? Is the focus only on golfdirect.co.uk simply because it appears to have secondary market value and because its late renewal wound secondary market opportunists up?

I'm afraid that sometimes you just have to presume things are being done correctly despite not actually knowing for certain that they are. If someone with a right to complain does so, deal with that then.

 

'I'm afraid that sometimes you just have to presume things are being done correctly despite not actually knowing for certain that they are'

And there you have it. David your mask has slipped. I won't be wasting my breath on you anymore.

 

What do you realistically expect Nominet to do managing millions of domain names through multiple registrars and registrants? I don't think we can realistically expect registrations and renewals to be conducted face to face. There has to be some presumption that things are being done correctly subject to no evidence to suggest otherwise.

 

I can probably find out if it remains a pressing issue, but not until the later part of next week earliest. It seems too coincidental that two entirely separate registrants renewed on the same day of the drop (albeit a couple of days apart), but equally the registrars were different too, unless 1&1 and Heart are the same company. Not disgruntled though, if the registrants genuinely renewed last minute, after realising or even a tip off, so be it, no different than renewing at any point during expiry, just seems a little odd.

 

The registrants aren't connected. The domain names aren't related. The registrars are competitors. Each day hundreds of domain names go into the deletion queue and over the course of the month and year a percentage of them will be "saved". Many of these saves likely go unnoticed or unmentioned. Then forgotten about. Nominet would be able to find out how many pending deletion renewals occur on and across each drop day. People with massive databases of domain names who monitor the days drops might also know some of this (@RobM could be one).

Based on the above, "too coincidental" based on what statistical information? Because... you don't recall noticing it before?

Quite.

 

@ian-d just to throw fuel onto the fire, it wasn't 1&1 as you stated but was 123-Reg (pcg.co.uk) and HeartInternet (golfdirect.co.uk). Unlike 1&1 those registrars are related.

 

Let's also rememher that another member of the HEG family, DomainMonster, have previous in this area.

 

Discussed already but on that occasion, perhaps 18-24 months ago, those domain names were being transferred to other parties who had purchased back orders at that registrar. This hasn't yet happened with either of the examples given in the last few days.

HEG registrars account for a very sizeable number of *.uk domain names under management

 

Christ you're right, thought it was only last year, it was June 2014! We'll here's a question then, did anyone have pcg.co.uk backordered at 123-reg?

 

Assuming they still offer back ordering, why would it matter? Unlike back then, on these occasions the domain names have simply been renewed and not transferred.

 

Coincidental based entirely on expecting those domains to be the pick of the best that particular day, but that of course is only my view, but I suspect it was similar for others. Nothing more than that though, it would be interesting to know how many domains are renewed on the day of the drop; I suspect as you've said, RobM would probably be best placed to know, but entirely up to him whether he wants to spend the time, or divulge.

Oh, my error, but makes it even more interesting then; might be that we have to collectively monitor their renewals to see if it continues, but it comes down to what I guess they perceive as worth saving; but I'm sure they have resources like the rest of us to see what has been publically booked for catch etc.

 

For now...(keep monitoring it!)...but again, that may only prove that the registrant was asked by a potential buyer to renew it then sell it to them, but it seems less likely so late in the cancellation process...all guess work for now, but good fun!

 

Assuming that pcg.co.uk has genuinely been left under the ownership of the original registrant, then it shows that 123-reg just want to keep the domain "on their books". It could be that if someone backorders it with them, it goes to them, if not, it stays with original registrant. This might also be a way of then tying the registrant in to a "can we take over the domain if you let it expire?" clause (I haven't checked that, but it was something certainly floated in the past). All this of course is BS if these were genuinely innocent late renewals.

 

To be honest I don't check all the lists every day. However I know from the amount of dropchasers chasing (around 20-30 usually) and my own tag backorders that it is rare for a renewal on the day of the drop. On the occasions it has happened I have never seen a renewed domain 'parked' passing all it's traffic to the registrar. Until now of course. But it's all OK because David said so. I'm reminded of the domain tasting fiasco in .com of the early 2000's when certain people cried blue in the face that it wasn't happening even though it was being seen by others and documented. There are always people who try to make you look the other way as they pick your pocket. Not saying that is the case here but Nominet pushed through .uk and a price hike and, looking back on this forum, certain mouthpieces said things weren't happening that clearly were. Add to that evidence of corruption in the past, the Leslie Cowley farce, etc and I don't trust this company nor its representatives to tell me I need an umbrella if it's pouring down.

 

With your systems I am surprised because you're in one of the best places to do it.

These are all drop chasers you host the DAC/EPP for? Otherwise how would you know how many independent registrars might be chasing any name?

Based on the subset of the total drop schedule that you and they monitor. But as you say you don't check the registration status post drop day of everything that was scheduled to drop each day.

Do you actually know what the name servers of golfdirect.co.uk were prior to its suspension, to know that it wasn't parked back then? It may simply have reverted back to the name servers it had prior to suspension.

I'm not sure your memory of .com domain tasting justifies your stance here. Don't you think others recall it too? Nobody is picking your pocket here because you have no more right to obtain these domain names than anyone else.

Things move on. You don't. Perhaps time to consider leaving that tiny island for a bit rather than seemingly shutting yourself out there and hiding behind a computer ranting about things that are long in the past.

 

All of this doesn't take into account that pcg.co.uk was due to drop during the day it was renewed and it was renewed late in the day. No registrar would wish to risk an attractive domain name being deleted by the registry from under their nose, if they wanted to retain it for themselves or pass it onto another registrant, by waiting to renew it well into the day of deletion.

Eliminating this the only plausible explanation to me is the existing registrant "saved" it and was lucky.

 

Wasn't this part of the discussion though, to determine whether the registrar, given their standing with Nominet, may be privy to information on the so called 'automated' timing? Seems more sinister that two registrars own by the same parent company have done this in recent days. Just for the record though, I did some extensive analysis of the drop times and couldn't find any pattern note worthy, but that isn't to say that Nominet don't know come midnight when domains will drop, assuming they are all allocated a time at that point to space them evenly throughout the 24 hour period. Makes for interesting conspiracy theories if nothing else.

 

I've been informed at the highest level that drop order is random and the randomness is seeded. I've had that explained to me but, if interested, do your own research into it.

I don't know how the drop distribution over time works. Can't say if it's an equal distribution over the day with even spacing but I doubt it. The time distribution was like this for a while about ten years ago but that was fixed.

Hypothetically, if a registrar (I don't believe they do) knew the exact time a particular domain name was going to drop why would they choose to draw attention to this (twice) by renewing late? Why not renew it earlier? What's the advantage other than to create debate here?