Rules for the release of 2LD in .uk

[invincible]

Nominet released a PDF document detailing rules for the release of domain names at the second level in .uk back in late January 2014.

Within this post I refer to second, third and fourth level domain names as 2LD, 3LD and 4LD respectively. A 2LD would be {example}.uk, a 3LD would be {example}.{co|org|me|ltd|plc}.uk and a 4LD would be {example}.internet.co.uk (also known as a subdomain).

Some points to note:

2.4 Certain organisations have registered Domain Names with us and these organisations may offer to register a Fourth Level Domain for you as a sub-domain of their Domain Name. We do not accept responsibility for any registration of Fourth Level Domains by you with other organisations, nor do we control the naming of these Fourth Level Domains by these Rules or otherwise.

This seems to clarify that Nominet absolve themselves of any responsibility towards anyone who registers a 4LD (i.e. a subdomain) under any 3LD sold by Nominet. I am not aware of anyone doing this but an example might be the registrant of the 3LD shop.co.uk deciding to sell 4LD to anyone wishing to acquire {example}.shop.co.uk. As far as I am aware Nominet have never specifically made reference to 4LD selling or leasing in previous rules and it is interesting to see them do so for the first time even though the statement seems to be a bit woolly, in my opinion, by their use of "Certain organisations" and "these organisations".

The numbering appears to skip "7", jumping directly from "6" to "8" which leads me to believe that the document may not have been checked thoroughly enough.

As we are surely aware by now the forthcoming ".uk" is a 2LD. It is listed within Appendix C at 6.3 and is operated by Nominet but for restricted use.

Points to note which refer specifically to the .uk 2LD:

• Any person may register a SLD ("2LD") within .uk
• Where a registrant is not within the United Kingdom, a UK address for service must also be supplied
• PO Box addresses (or equivalent services) are not permitted
• The sale of third level ("3LD") registrations to unrelated parties is not permitted

The Address for Service requirement for entities based abroad who do not have a UK address is something they mentioned at the original consultation. PO Boxes (and equivalent) such as those provided by the Post Office are not acceptable even if the registrant is located in the UK.

The sale of 3LD to unrelated parties is also not permitted. Therefore, for example, the registrant of "shop.uk" (a 2LD) would not be permitted to sell the 3LD "shoe.shop.uk" to an unrelated party. It will be interesting to see how this is enforced. Would Nominet suspend a 2LD for infringement and could this rule be challenged in court as anticompetitive? I am not aware of such a rule in any other European ccTLD (e.g. in .de or .fr).

 

[Skinner]

The keyword for me was SALE.

I ain't selling it, I'm leasing it or it's free with subscription to my sea service.

 

[Systreg]

PO Boxes (and equivalent) such as those provided by the Post Office are not acceptable even if the registrant is located in the UK.

Any ideas on what they class an acceptable address? It was suggested to me before that I could use the scanmypost.co.uk service as my address for service, now I'm not sure if that's allowed or not.

 

[invincible]

Any ideas on what they class an acceptable address? It was suggested to me before that I could use the scanmypost.co.uk service as my address for service, now I'm not sure if that's allowed or not.

It's acceptable because it isn't a PO Box. I guess it depends what one wants.

(from Note 3)

 

[Retired_Member38]

It's acceptable because it isn't a PO Box. I guess it depends what one wants.

(from Note 3)

I don't think it would be acceptable. Surely it falls under (or equivalent services) ? Someone receiving your mail for you and scanning it in and emailing it on is an equivalent service to a PO box. Its a service also offered by Mail Boxes Etc too.

 

[Systreg]

It's acceptable because it isn't a PO Box

Thanks, I was just wondering how broad (and equivalent) might be, and the scan my post address, whilst looking like a normal postal address, it could still be regarded as a sort of box number as you get a suite/room number in front of the address, but it's not technically a box number as in PO Box 419 for example.

Scan my post is only costs about £11.50 per year for 5 scans, and I'm not likely to get any mail sent to it anyway, so that service may do just to satisfy the address for service that's required if it's allowed.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Thanks, I was just wondering how broad (and equivalent) might be, and the scan my post address, whilst looking like a normal postal address, it could still be regarded as a sort of box number as you get a suite/room number in front of the address, but it's not technically a box number as in PO Box 419 for example.

Scan my post is only costs about £11.50 per year for 5 scans, and I'm not likely to get any mail sent to it anyway, so that service may do just to satisfy the address for service that's required if it's allowed.

Since it doesn't appear to be a PO box from the address I'm sure it'll be accepted... but I also think it'll be breaking the rules. And if anyone else uses it and gets busted for it then everyone else using it might get done at the same time. I've no idea what'll happen at that point - probably just a chance to put a 'real' address.

Likewise I'm sure you'd get away with using http://www.mbe.co.uk/ as they let you list things as 'suite' or 'office' or whatever rather than box.

 

[invincible]

Since it doesn't appear to be a PO box from the address I'm sure it'll be accepted... but I also think it'll be breaking the rules. And if anyone else uses it and gets busted for it then everyone else using it might get done at the same time. I've no idea what'll happen at that point - probably just a chance to put a 'real' address.

Likewise I'm sure you'd get away with using http://www.mbe.co.uk/ as they let you list things as 'suite' or 'office' or whatever rather than box.

PO Boxes aren't acceptable because they aren't considered "real" addresses that can be validated by Nominet. Mail forwarding services such as Mailboxes Etc are acceptable as is using other services specialising in Address for Service and solicitors. If these services weren't acceptable then registrants based abroad with no physical office in the UK would have difficulty registering second level .uk domain names ("2LD).

There is a technical document located here which has been available for some time and I have been aware of. However given this forum isn't really a domain name forum, discussion of it hasn't surfaced on here until now as far as I am aware. Anyone looking at the link should notice the document in PDF format linked to from the top of the first page. See pages 10 and 21 for details about "Address for Service" and common EPP and automaton errors for invalid addresses for service where PO Boxes are used. PO Boxes are not acceptable.

Incidentally the document deals with a variety of other issues including what happens if one registrar wishes to register the 2LD for a registrant and the 3LD with Rights is registered to the same registrant at another registrar.

 

[Systreg]

I'd seen the mbe.co.uk site before, their service is pretty expensive and it's basically the same as scan my post service, except you can physically go and pick your mail up in person 24/7 with mbe, but it's £324.00 per year for theirs, compared to £11.50 for scan my post.

It's looking like a scan my post address will be acceptable after seeing Invincibles latest post regarding it, as it appears that only actual PO Box type names where they can't be validated are an issue, so as long as it's a real street postal address, there shouldn't be any problem with it.

 

[Retired_Member38]

PO Boxes aren't acceptable because they aren't considered "real" addresses that can be validated by Nominet. Mail forwarding services such as Mailboxes Etc are acceptable...

I suspect you're going to be wrong on this point.

What exactly does "and equivalent" mean in the context of not being allowed? Mail Boxes Etc is quite clearly a commercial equivalent to a Post Office Box...

 

[invincible]

I'd seen the mbe.co.uk site before, their service is pretty expensive and it's basically the same as scan my post service, except you can physically go and pick your mail up in person 24/7 with mbe, but it's £324.00 per year for theirs, compared to £11.50 for scan my post.

It's looking like a scan my post address will be acceptable after seeing Invincibles latest post regarding it, as it appears that only actual PO Box type names where they can't be validated are an issue, so as long as it's a real street postal address, there shouldn't be any problem with it.

The thing with Scanmypost's cheaper service (which incidentally is much cheaper than their other tiers) is the 5 page limit PER YEAR before they charge you PER PAGE in addition. One DRS or legal letter can often run into double figure pages.

 

[invincible]

I suspect you're going to be wrong on this point.

What exactly does "and equivalent" mean in the context of not being allowed? Mail Boxes Etc is quite clearly a commercial equivalent to a Post Office Box...

I'm right (I've already been in discussion with Nominet senior management). Mailboxes Etc is a physical address they can validate. PO Box 1234, London W1 1AB isn't. Nominet have decided not to accept PO Boxes of that form. Ask them why.

Also see 19, 20, 32 and 33 in that order of this FAQ.

19. "Can I put my address as the address for service? If I do, what are the consequences? - Yes a registrar can use their address as their customer’s address for service. Registrars offering such a service would need an arrangement for the delivery of notices to the registrant. If we are unable to contact the registrant via the registrar address this could lead to suspension or cancellation of the domain."

20. "My resellers are not UK based but I am. Can they use my address as the address for service? What are the consequences? - Same as above."

32. "You mention data validation. Why have my registrant's details not been validated as a PO BOX is perfectly legitimate? - A PO Box is acceptable at the third level (i.e. a .co.uk, .org.uk domain, etc.) but not for second level, .uk registrations. We decided not to allow the use of a PO Box as an address for a registrant or as an address for service because we think it is important that internet users can find out who is responsible for a .uk domain name."

33. "How will you prevent PO Boxes in .uk domain registrant address? - We will be checking data at the time of registration. If a registrant address has a PO Box, we will not accept it. However, in order to smooth the registration process for those who are exercising a right to register, we will initially accept the .uk registration with a PO Box address. This will then need to be updated within a reasonable timeframe."

 

[invincible]

Point 24 is interesting:

My customer (example.co.uk) qualifies but has expressly said they don’t want the example.uk domain name – can I register it for them and transfer it to myself? - No.

I wonder how many of the bigger registrars will DAC all of their 3LD registrations towards the end of the five year reservation period of the .uk 2LD's and then moments before the time when the reservation period expires, do the above anyway for the ones still available to register!?



An unscrupulous registrar should be able to easily produce a list of all the 3LD's registered to their customers, then subtract those with matching .uk 2LD's already registered at the same registrar from that list before running the remainder through the DAC and finally subtracting the ones with matching .uk 2LD's that were found to be registered at other registrars (to the same registrant). Finally all that might be needed would be a bit of sorting through by eye to see which were potentially of value.

 

[Systreg]

Thanks for the Q and A link, it's very clear on there that scan my post is acceptable as an address.

The thing with Scanmypost's cheaper service (which incidentally is much cheaper than their other tiers) is the 5 page limit PER YEAR before they charge you PER PAGE in addition. One DRS or legal letter can often run into double figure pages.

I've not had a single letter so far (touch wood) since 2009, but in the event it did happen, the fees for extra scanned letters are only pennies, so it's not going to break the bank should that ever happen

 

[WealdDomains]

Thanks for this very useful thread, especially invincible for highlighting the FAQs.

In general, I found myself nodding sagely as I worked through the list ... although number 43 did cause me a brief wry smile as I thought back to the consultation exercise

David

 

[diablo]

Is anyone using scanmypost - what does the address they give you look like?

 

[Systreg]

@ Diablo, got mine from them recently, it looks like this:

Apt xxxx
Chynoweth House
Trevissome Park
Truro
TR4 8UN

 

[diablo]

@ Diablo, got mine from them recently, it looks like this:

Apt xxxx
Chynoweth House
Trevissome Park
Truro
TR4 8UN

Thanks Systreg - might go down this route myself as seems to be the cheapest option.

Does it take long to be given the address?

 

[Systreg]

@ Diablo, it was pretty quick, once you've paid and got your address, you just have two send to scans of ID/household bills to your new address to activate it, they use those to verify your name/address and scan/upload those free of charge for you to see how mail looks in your control panel.

 

[diablo]

@ Diablo, it was pretty quick, once you've paid and got your address, you just have two send to scans of ID/household bills to your new address to activate it, they use those to verify your name/address and scan/upload those free of charge for you to see how mail looks in your control panel.

Brilliant - thanks for the help.