.UK V2 - The Losers

[scooter]

We digress,

My question was:
If Monkey only has 2 names and he has forked out £37K on these is he going to be happy if someone with exactly the same business model is given a better extention (they may even get them for £5), will he be happy?





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[Retired_Member42]

I'm not saying he's going to be happy. Who would be? Same as I wouldn't be happy if someone got .uk because their unused .co.uk was older than my .org.uk. Same as I wouldn't be happy if I lost a number one spot in Google to a competitor... Not being happy is fair enough, but I don't think it's the end of the world scenario as it's made out to be here. He's paid £37k for some names as he obviously sees value in them and they're fit for purpose for his business model. He's not lost £37k as he still owns the domains he's bought and his business is still in the same place as it was before or after the .uk launch. The only people who lose anything as such are domainers who are sitting on .co.uk and not getting .uk for a freebie. Even then it's not a loss, only less profit.

 

[domainseller200]

I am sick of hearing all the "fair" and "unfair" comments in this Nominet .uk proposal. Life isn't fair and whinging about things which are fair and unfair won't solve anything. A child dying of cancer is one of the most unfair things in the world, it still happens though and arguing over how unfair it is, doesn't stop it from happening.

Play the hand you are dealt, walk the paths you have chosen and stop whinging - you could die tomorrow.

 

[scooter]

I too am sick of and it. There are about 400 posts of, sick, fair, unfair and what ifs.

There would be none if Nominet didn't try to fix something that did not need fixed.

As for the hand you are dealt. We were going to be given a £20 reg fee for something that was not required. That hand has now gone as pressure dealt with it. The path they chose us to walk closed.

I'll be the first to go with the flow once the final hand has been dealt but no hand has been dealt. The hand has only changed and proposed. Like the first hand, we are at a crossroads, the path has still to be chosen. Maybe pressure will prevail again.




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[domainseller200]

I too am sick of and it. There are about 400 posts of, sick, fair, unfair and what ifs.

There would be none if Nominet didn't try to fix something that did not need fixed.

As for the hand you are dealt. We were going to be given a £20 reg fee for something that was not required. That hand has now gone as presure dealt with it. The path they chose us to walk closed.

I'll be the first to go with the flow once the final hand has been dealt but no hand has been dealt. The hand has only changed and proposed. Like the first hand, we are at a crossroads, the path has still to be chosen. Maybe presure will prevail again..

Hence my comment play the hand you are dealt - when it is ACTUALLY dealt

 

[fozfoz is verified member.]

When it comes to .uk, it's a high card hand or at best one pair.

 

[Retired_Member42]

Come on Frank, have a bit of a whinge. That's what this thread is for.

 

[domainseller200]

Come on Frank, have a bit of a whinge. That's what this thread is for.

That was my whinge

 

[MurrayMurray is verified member.]

Come on Frank, have a bit of a whinge. That's what this thread is for.

Well that wasn't necessarily my intention

Just wanted to highlight just a little bit of how much has been invested into the premium .uk only for it's premium status to be tarnished by even the very proposition of direct.uk

 

[Retired_Member38]

I agree. When I state a mirror site, I do not mean an exact copy. I mean someone opens up on monkey.uk doing car insurance comparison. Their own logo, content etc.

Realistically, who is going to do this? It would be nothing more than idiotic to attempt to build a car insurance site on Monkey.uk, when there was an established car insurance site on the .co.uk.

At best you are going to be paying solicitor fees to try and get a cease and desist. All unnecessary expense, hassle and loss of business as monkey.uk is similar to your name. What happens if you DRS and you lose? My bet is, if you do not own the trademark, you will lose. I can see this happening all the time. It will be a free for all.

There is absolutely no chance that any big company tries to turn Monkey.uk into a big brand in the car insurance niche. If they are big company already, then they should be launching a new site with the expectation of dominating the niche. Why would they possibly want to launch and win in a niche like that, then leak loads of traffic to me on the .co.uk? They'd go look for a combo of butterfly.co.uk/.uk, or any other suitable pair. They wouldn't want to throw away 100's of thousands of pounds on the alternate solution of building a site that co-exists next to mine, and me getting traffic they had earned.

At best you are going to be paying solicitor fees to try and get a cease and desist. All unnecessary expense, hassle and loss of business as monkey.uk is similar to your name. What happens if you DRS and you lose? My bet is, if you do not own the trademark, you will lose. I can see this happening all the time. It will be a free for all.

Speaking from a friends recent experience, I wouldn't even bother with a DRS. Just go down the 'passing off' route. The threat of burying someone in legal expenses and the other side of the table being occupied by someone with deep pockets was enough for this one to be turned over when the complaint was complete bullshit to begin with. A big company isn't going to build on one half of a .co.uk/.uk pair as its not worth it. A little guy isn't going to do it in case someone flattens them with legal expenses. So this isn't nearly the issue you're making it out to be, imho.

I'm not saying they are setting up to steal anything either.

The will set up with their own Monkey logo and target the exact same keywords that the existing site targets. Thus the confusion and ultimately monkey.co.uk loses out as in the coming years .uk takes dominance in the commercial name space.

I know anyone can open up the same at present. I am talking about EMD's.

monkey.co.uk
monkey.org.uk
monkey.me.uk
ltd.uk etc.

All of a sudden here comes the big bad daddy of them all monkey.uk. "There can be only one" and this is it. You cannot get any better.

Yes but again, why would anyone bother? If they have the resources to compete for the money keywords, they'd certainly not want to be confused by another site already operating. The only way they'd want to cause this confusion, was because they wanted to force me to buy them out. And its not going to be anywhere near as cheap and easy as you think it would be to do that.

You are a developer;
How hard would it honestly be for the owner of monkey.uk to target monkey's keywords to rank well alongside?

http://www.google.co.uk/#gs_rn=18&g...50,d.d2k&fp=69d13d89a220156d&biw=1152&bih=759


I think it would be not very hard. So lets multiply that by the tens of thousands of potential names. A domainers dream. Great names handed on a plate with EMD already trading. An easy target..

It wouldn't be very hard no. But you'd need to spend 5 figures to do it. With again all the issues of if you have the resources to do it, you'd be building your own brand and not trying to piggy back off someone else's.

How many domainers have either the ability or the resources to spend 5 figures a go, trying to extort multiple big websites into buying them out? The chances of anyone attempting this is close to zero. You'd need to spend a million £ to even attempt it to 20 different sites. And if you tried it to 20 sites, that in itself would be clear evidence of bad faith registrations and use of domains.

 

[websaway]

I am sick of hearing all the "fair" and "unfair" comments in this Nominet .uk proposal. Life isn't fair and whinging about things which are fair and unfair won't solve anything. A child dying of cancer is one of the most unfair things in the world, it still happens though and arguing over how unfair it is, doesn't stop it from happening.

Play the hand you are dealt, walk the paths you have chosen and stop whinging - you could die tomorrow.

I think everyone is arguing about the seating arrangements.
The cards are yet to be dealt.

But I do know what you mean, it's a marathon not a sprint.

 

[MurrayMurray is verified member.]

I am sick of hearing all the "fair" and "unfair" comments in this Nominet .uk proposal. Life isn't fair and whinging about things which are fair and unfair won't solve anything. A child dying of cancer is one of the most unfair things in the world, it still happens though and arguing over how unfair it is, doesn't stop it from happening.

Play the hand you are dealt, walk the paths you have chosen and stop whinging - you could die tomorrow.

It's lucky you weren't Rosa Parks lol.

 

[scooter]

I think everyone is arguing about the seating arrangements.
The cards are yet to be dealt.

But I do know what you mean, it's a marathon not a sprint.

I agree. I'm tired of it all. We could easily have another 400 pages of arguing "what if" scenarios. Lets see what the cards say.

But i do agree with what you stated in one of the threads earlier. If it does go ahead all it will be is a mirror of what is already here. All good names taken and you are left with what is already left in the co.uk name space.



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[Retired_Member38]

*In your opinion.* Don't assume everyone else would think the same. Until it actually happens it's probably pointless arguing about it though!

Sure, but it makes sense to at least think through possible outcomes in advance. Its a better option than waiting till it affects you, and you don't have any idea what you're going to do about it.

That's an expensive route with a high threshold required to proof passing off. Is "monkey.co.uk" really so well known to expect that most people would immediately think of your brand when seeing the "monkey" term in association with car insurance? Until you started posting about it on here I'd never heard of your brand. You're not "Coke".

There wouldn't be a high threshold of proof if someone tried it on multiple people at once. I'm not saying Monkey is a big brand - its clearly not. But if they tried it on me and a dozen other people... the bad faith in what they are doing would be painfully obvious.

 

[Retired_Member38]

The situation Scooter was suggesting was a near impossibility from the start. I"m pretty much only answering it out of boredom.

If anyone was going to do this spread across multiple personalities then it would be absolutely impossible for them to get all the .uk's in the first place without leaving a clear trail of them being connected to one person or group surely.

Anyway no more pie in the sky theories for me. I'm off to watch a program about a mixed race couple, their 'little chocolate babies', and Stephen Fry.

 

[scooter]

I wasn't talking about one entity doing multiple sites.. No need. People will be queuing up to take on a site or 2 only.

Plan wisely. Get the dominant domain, Spend £170, get the trademark and build as co.uk will become the poor mans .uk through time. just like the org.uk is at present.

But as you say, it is all pie in the sky until we see the cards.



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[Retired_Member38]

Plan wisely. Get the dominant domain, Spend £170, get the trademark and build as co.uk will become the poor mans .uk through time. just like the org.uk is at present.

This is speculation. If Google etc stay on .co.uk... then there is only one winner and it aint the new kid in town.

 

[scooter]

Everything is speculation. it is all pie in the sky.

 

[Bailey]

The whole 'Shenanigans' have become a whole new way of looking at the UK space , personally I'm not adverse to it.

Makes you look twice/three times at domain offerings. In Honesty, A new .UK space suits me well, but then I'm a 2,000 dollar year investor at best.

Wouldn't want Edwin as a 'Running mate' though...

Mr green light, went red, then back to green with nothing inbetween