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Corona please read very important

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I think maybe your missing my point I'm just saying for people like Brewsters who thinks this all been made up to bring about a one world government. These figures surely say covid is definitely real.
I'm sure now the conspiracy will move to bill gates and the illuminati created covid in a lab to grab power.
As for the economy the lockdown merits weren't about these 6000 poor souls. Its about there not being 60'000 - 120'000 extra people that didn't die that week.
If you accept the scientific estimates that 250'000 to 500'000 would have died if we had done nothing and now they think 20'000.
If that many people had died in a week the NHS would have been crippled and it wouldn't have just been largely the elderly who passed.
Actual only 3700 odd were assigned to Covid by ONS but if you trust the scientific modelling and say the lookdown will decrease deaths by at least a factor of 10 its still at least 37'000 souls spared last week for the sacrifices were all making
 
I don't think the Merseyside region have designated any one hospital as a covid centre ourselves The royal and Aintree all take covid patients. I know friends in specialist trust in the region have them in there hospitals as well although they don't take them on as emergency cases these are people who have probably acquired it in hospital.

I was under the impression that Whiston is one.
 
I was under the impression that Whiston is one.
Yes Whiston take them as well I don't think there is one designated centre in are region as it seems they are doing in the northeast
 
My analysis is that the government initially favoured 'herd immunity' rather than lock down, but when confronted with best scientific advice that this could lead to hundreds of thousands of additional deaths, they bottled out.

Point 1. That delay before opting for lock down may have caused significant extra deaths. Countries that locked down quickly, and accompanied it with deep-contact testing of those associated with known virus holders, are likely to have significantly fewer deaths in the end. (Time will tell.)

Point 2. Failure to act quickly also led to the UK 'missing the bus' for enough tests at the time they were going to be most useful.

Point 3. There was longer-term government failure to prepare adequately for pandemic in terms of vital supplies. The possibility of a pandemic was a known risk.

Point 4. The death toll this afternoon is likely to rise above 12,000 and as these numbers have a lag running up to 2 weeks behind actual mortality, it is quite possible that mortality figures will remain around 800-1000 for the next 10 days at least (if not higher). The fact they don't go higher will be because of adherence to lock down. I suspect the mortality toll in hospitals alone will be over 25,000 by the end of April.

Point 5. It's beyond clear and evident that very large number of additional deaths are occurring now, compared to past years. The expert opinion of those trained in healthcare, and actually witnessing what's happening on the front-line, is (applying all their years of experience) that this is an exceptional crisis, and one that is being caused by the spread of the virus.

Point 6. This is not part of a plan for a 'one world government'. It is a human tragedy unfolding across the world. It is best addressed by practical healthcare and distancing, and by a clear-headed recognition of the very real danger of this virus.

Point 7. I am desperately concerned about the potential impact this virus may yet have on poor and developing nations with insufficient resources, and what that may mean in terms of human suffering, death from the virus, food supply issues, and grassroots disorder arising out of desperation.

Listen to the maximum number of experts, and the probably 95% viewpoint of trained healthcare professionals, that this worldwide phenomenon and virus is causing so many deaths. It is so incredibly frustrating, when decent people are risking or sacrificing their lives for the sake of others, to read views of people who are chasing and advocating theories that imply this virus isn't killing people on the scale it is.
 
My analysis is that the government initially favoured 'herd immunity' rather than lock down, but when confronted with best scientific advice that this could lead to hundreds of thousands of additional deaths, they bottled out.

Point 1. That delay before opting for lock down may have caused significant extra deaths. Countries that locked down quickly, and accompanied it with deep-contact testing of those associated with known virus holders, are likely to have significantly fewer deaths in the end. (Time will tell.)

Point 2. Failure to act quickly also led to the UK 'missing the bus' for enough tests at the time they were going to be most useful.

Point 3. There was longer-term government failure to prepare adequately for pandemic in terms of vital supplies. The possibility of a pandemic was a known risk.

Point 4. The death toll this afternoon is likely to rise above 12,000 and as these numbers have a lag running up to 2 weeks behind actual mortality, it is quite possible that mortality figures will remain around 800-1000 for the next 10 days at least (if not higher). The fact they don't go higher will be because of adherence to lock down. I suspect the mortality toll in hospitals alone will be over 25,000 by the end of April.

Point 5. It's beyond clear and evident that very large number of additional deaths are occurring now, compared to past years. The expert opinion of those trained in healthcare, and actually witnessing what's happening on the front-line, is (applying all their years of experience) that this is an exceptional crisis, and one that is being caused by the spread of the virus.

Point 6. This is not part of a plan for a 'one world government'. It is a human tragedy unfolding across the world. It is best addressed by practical healthcare and distancing, and by a clear-headed recognition of the very real danger of this virus.

Point 7. I am desperately concerned about the potential impact this virus may yet have on poor and developing nations with insufficient resources, and what that may mean in terms of human suffering, death from the virus, food supply issues, and grassroots disorder arising out of desperation.

Listen to the maximum number of experts, and the probably 95% viewpoint of trained healthcare professionals, that this worldwide phenomenon and virus is causing so many deaths. It is so incredibly frustrating, when decent people are risking or sacrificing their lives for the sake of others, to read views of people who are chasing and advocating theories that imply this virus isn't killing people on the scale it is.

A good summing up of the situation. I'd add that due to the initial lockdown delay maybe herd immunity is still the only show in town (in that so many people already have it now that once we ease restrictions it's bound to flare up again).

How long immunity even lasts though is also a big unknown and pivotal I'd say. If it lasts for years then there's a good chance that covid-19 will peter out entirely before long. However, if it's say a few months, it could be the case that this is something we're perpetually dealing with, well without a vaccine or more effective treatments arriving. Hopefully effective treatments will eventually emerge. The necessity of it and number of ongoing trials are all factors that encourage progress.
 
Point 1. That delay before opting for lock down may have caused significant extra deaths. Countries that locked down quickly, and accompanied it with deep-contact testing of those associated with known virus holders, are likely to have significantly fewer deaths in the end. (Time will tell..

An early lockdown seems like it would delay things not prevent them; as soon as you started to ease restrictions it would have made the whole initial lockdown pointless
 
This reply didn't age well.

None or your replies have aged well, your point is ?

Regarding the deaths, yes there will be more unreported. There will also be deaths included which coronavirus was not the cause the person simply had it in their system.
 
An early lockdown seems like it would delay things not prevent them; as soon as you started to ease restrictions it would have made the whole initial lockdown pointless

Getting the timing right is definitely a hard needle to thread because you only how how right or wrong you got it after the fact. I get what you're saying, in that high numbers now may make things easier further down the line. At least now hospitals are gradually getting better prepared too, and so when restrictions are eased there will 'hopefully' still be access to treatment even if the numbers start to rise again.
 
Getting the timing right is definitely a hard needle to thread because you only how how right or wrong you got it after the fact. I get what you're saying, in that high numbers now may make things easier further down the line. At least now hospitals are gradually getting better prepared too, and so when restrictions are eased there will 'hopefully' still be access to treatment even if the numbers start to rise again.

Yeah, as best as I've understood nothing has been about total prevention more just staggering the cases

Controlled burn

flattening the curve

etc
 
An early lockdown seems like it would delay things not prevent them; as soon as you started to ease restrictions it would have made the whole initial lockdown pointless
See my twitter link above
But not pointless in my opinion. It would have bought time for more antiviral trials to be conducted. HIV Antivirals have been showing some promise in our ITU albeit very small subset of patients still a glimmer of hope for a treatment in these dark times if similar is being seen nationwide.
It would have bought more time for an Adequate testing network to be built up.
With adequate testing you can take the test trace quarantine approach that has been hugely successful in south Korea.
Because this things spreads exponentially though delaying lockdown means far more people now have contracted it died from it than needed to. And it will take longer to get back down to a number were we have capacity to do testing and tracing.
 
Yeah, as best as I've understood nothing has been about total prevention more just staggering the cases

Controlled burn

flattening the curve

etc

Yes exactly. In an amoral society, there would be a case for not locking anything down and just carrying as normal and moving beyond this as swiftly as possible. It would be a harrowing period of time though.

I'm pleased that the delay has allowed us to get somewhat ahead of the curve, increasing capacity to deal with the numbers etc. It's still all a bit surreal though, as none of us have a frame of reference for something like this.
 
See my twitter link above
But not pointless in my opinion.

I couldn't be bothered to do the fact checking once I started reading

Ireland closed schools March 13th

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11157853/what-time-irelands-coronavirus-lockdown-start/

And went into total lockdown 27th or 28th

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/stay-home-varadkar-urges-irish-in-drastic-lockdown

How many cases and deaths were in Ireland at that point? how does that compare to the UK?

How many international visitors/returnees did the UK receive in that time vs Ireland?

So many reasons Ireland might be doing better right now, but they may have more cases after they lift restrictions

I don't think we can really compare until after it's all played out
 
I think maybe your missing my point I'm just saying for people like Brewsters who thinks this all been made up to bring about a one world government. These figures surely say covid is definitely real.
I'm sure now the conspiracy will move to bill gates and the illuminati created covid in a lab to grab power.
As for the economy the lockdown merits weren't about these 6000 poor souls. Its about there not being 60'000 - 120'000 extra people that didn't die that week.
If you accept the scientific estimates that 250'000 to 500'000 would have died if we had done nothing and now they think 20'000.
If that many people had died in a week the NHS would have been crippled and it wouldn't have just been largely the elderly who passed.

Oh ok, I'm with you. I'm not a believer in that stuff just because people generally aren't clever enough to pull it off. Plus you would always end up with a Snowden type character who would whistleblow. Could some group be taking advantage of something natural, possibly but I have no evidence of it.

I don't doubt it is real, it is a killer. I just don't think the numbers are as high as they say or as significant as they say, not a conspiracy just the fog of a fast moving incident. My opinion is that when it balances out over a few months, we will see that killing the economy was the wrong thing to do, social distancing would have done it.
 
I couldn't be bothered to do the fact checking once I started reading

Ireland closed schools March 13th

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11157853/what-time-irelands-coronavirus-lockdown-start/

And went into total lockdown 27th or 28th

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/stay-home-varadkar-urges-irish-in-drastic-lockdown

How many cases and deaths were in Ireland at that point? how does that compare to the UK?

How many international visitors/returnees did the UK receive in that time vs Ireland?

So many reasons Ireland might be doing better right now, but they may have more cases after they lift restrictions

I don't think we can really compare until after it's all played out

How about another comparison UK vs South Korea. Much closer population sizes but they have much higher visitors numbers from China but they took this thing seriously from the start.
United Kingdom
Coronavirus Cases:
93,873
Deaths:
12,107
South Korea
Coronavirus Cases:
10,564
Deaths:
222
They didn't even have to go into full lockdown because they employed mass testing from the start they didn't give the virus chance to spread whichever way you look at it lockdown timing / or testing are government completely messed up its response to this thing. As a result tens of thousands brits have paid for that this month with there lives and the rest of us will be paying for it financially for years to come all because of Boris, Cummings and the other cronies dithered in there response and thought they knew better.
 
Last edited:
How about another comparison UK vs South Korea. Much closer population sizes but they have much higher visitors numbers from China but they took this thing seriously from the start.
United Kingdom
Coronavirus Cases:
93,873
Deaths:
12,107
South Korea
Coronavirus Cases:
10,564
Deaths:
222
They didn't even have to go into full lockdown because they employed mass testing from the start they didn't give the virus chance to spread whichever way you look at it lockdown timing / or testing are government completely messed up its response to this thing. As a result tens of thousands brits have paid for that this month with there lives and the rest of us will be paying for it financially for years to come all because of Boris, Cummings and the other cronies dithered in there response and thought they new better.

Good points. I think a combination of not knowing when to pull the trigger in terms of the lockdown and also the lack of testing has resulted in the differences between certain nations. Germany too seem very up on the testing.

I know the stats stand for themselves, but I'm surprised there is such a huge difference really, as you'd think in all countries enough people would be asymptomatic (so likely not tested - yet still contagious) to throw a spanner in the works.
 
How about another comparison UK vs South Korea. Much closer population sizes but they have much higher visitors numbers from China but they took this thing seriously from the start.
United Kingdom
Coronavirus Cases:
93,873
Deaths:
12,107
South Korea
Coronavirus Cases:
10,564
Deaths:
222
They didn't even have to go into full lockdown because they employed mass testing from the start they didn't give the virus chance to spread whichever way you look at it lockdown timing / or testing are government completely messed up its response to this thing. As a result tens of thousands brits have paid for that this month with there lives and the rest of us will be paying for it financially for years to come all because of Boris, Cummings and the other cronies dithered in there response and thought they new better.

In February I posted on a BBC post that testing and tracing, especially with inbound international flights was urgently needed. I could not agree more with that you are saying. Models are flawed but you'd think common sense would have prevailed, it didn't. I wanted a lockdown in feb with a ban on international flights. If you saw johnson's face in the press conference the day after the 250k death model came out he was visibly shaken.

The US has reacted well given it's slow start, the UK just hasn't caught up yet in regards to testing. Ironically the same scientific advisers who recommended herd immunity are still in charge.

A huge amount of cases are asymptomatic, indeed many get the virus and are unaware they even had it. Only mass testing will get the true numbers regarding this. Even today in China they use temp scans which are useless to detect asymptomatic cases.
 
How about another comparison UK vs South Korea. Much closer population sizes but they have much higher visitors numbers from China but they took this thing seriously from the start.
United Kingdom
Coronavirus Cases:
93,873
Deaths:
12,107
South Korea
Coronavirus Cases:
10,564
Deaths:
222
They didn't even have to go into full lockdown because they employed mass testing from the start they didn't give the virus chance to spread whichever way you look at it lockdown timing / or testing are government completely messed up its response to this thing. As a result tens of thousands brits have paid for that this month with there lives and the rest of us will be paying for it financially for years to come all because of Boris, Cummings and the other cronies dithered in there response and thought they new better.

There are other explanations for that. Take a look at California, a state that has a much higher connection to China than New York due to it's communities and location being closer to China. They employed the same restrictions as New York but have had a much lower fallout. It can't be down to testing, it has to be something else.

Stanford University theories that the virus has already been through California last year and herd immunity is much more advanced. If that is true, the same would apply to South Korea. Stanford are due to report on their tests in the coming weeks.
 
Good points. I think a combination of not knowing when to pull the trigger in terms of the lockdown and also the lack of testing has resulted in the differences between certain nations. Germany too seem very up on the testing.

I know the stats stand for themselves, but I'm surprised there is such a huge difference really, as you'd think in all countries enough people would be asymptomatic (so likely not tested - yet still contagious) to throw a spanner in the works.
That's were the tracing approach came in with South Korea they went hardcore on tracing everyone who came near to a confirmed case tested and isolated them even if asymptomatic were need be.
They used mobile phone data credit card records there extensive CCTV records to trace contacts.
I'm guessing many of here in the west would baulk at these measurers the undermining of civil liberties and privacy but it was highly effective and probably what we will have to do when we get are numbers down to a level were we can lift the lockdown.
 
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