Corona please read very important

[Siusaidh]

Normal variation of deaths, or exceptional times?

 

[BREWSTERS]

Isn't Barrie Trower another well-known conspiracy theorist who claims to have worked in the Navy but has never been able to backup that claim?

No, he isn't.

He is a specialist in his field, and has been advising government departments of many countries for many years on the dangers of wifi.

But I'm sure you'll be able to find some hit-piece saying otherwise. You do realise that anyone who opposes official stories get's vilified by MSM don't you? A bit like anyone on here who doesn't blindly accept the MSM.

 

[AssetDomains]

Normal variation of deaths, or exceptional times?

Just been looking at the figures on the ONS site
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...glandandwalesprovisional/weekending3april2020
Huge death rise spike the statistics released this week for the 14th week of the year. Hope this puts to bed the argument these people were going to die anyway and its just being blamed on the covid on the death certificate as a conspiracy theory media hype or whatever. If anything looks covid-19 deaths are being massively under reported

 

[Murray]

Comparing the previous few weeks of the year it seems pretty normal for 45 and under

45-60 there's a noticeable increase

65+ is where it gets bad

 

[AssetDomains]

The biggest issue is a lot of the information on deaths at the moment is somewhat irrelevant, as it is all still 'pieces' of information and not a full picture, which is required to have any sort of meaning. It's still way to early to know or understand the true extent of deaths. In fact, at this stage it's likely impossible to truly have any sort of clear picture.

Some hospitals for example have been reporting large drops in people going to A&E. People who think they're having a heart attack might not go to A&E like they would have last year, and therefor have a higher chance of dying. The numbers at the moment may show more deaths than last year, but does that mean it was because of covid-19 or the side effects of human behaviour.

Did you read the BBC article 6000 extra people died in in the 14 week than did than did on average in the same week for the last 5 years not 1.
Massively more than any week 14 since the ons started recording statistics 15 years ago. 3475 linked to covid.
If these statistics don't convince people this thing is real and killing people prematurely I don't know what will

 

[AssetDomains]

They do definitely need to look at the difference though as if people being to scared to show up with other serious conditions then their needs to be a media blitz so people understand to still come to A&E

 

[BREWSTERS]

The biggest issue is a lot of the information on deaths at the moment is somewhat irrelevant, as it is all still 'pieces' of information and not a full picture, which is required to have any sort of meaning. It's still way to early to know or understand the true extent of deaths. In fact, at this stage it's likely impossible to truly have any sort of clear picture.

Some hospitals for example have been reporting large drops in people going to A&E. People who think they're having a heart attack might not go to A&E like they would have last year, and therefor have a higher chance of dying. The numbers at the moment may show more deaths than last year, but does that mean it was because of covid-19 or the side effects of human behaviour.

I think the figures raise more questions than provide answers.

Just from a quick glance through;

Note: Deaths could possibly be counted in both causes presented. If a death had an underlying respiratory cause and a mention of COVID-19 then it would appear in both counts.

Deaths where the underlying cause was respiratory disease (ICD-10 J00-J99) = 2106
Deaths where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate (ICD-10 U07.1 and U07.2) = 3475

TOTAL DEATHS = 16387

So they admit that some duplication is going on, but lets say there isn't - then the number of deaths not attributed to CV would be 12912 - that's 2597 deaths more than the 5y average for that week. Does that mean that 2597 people have died because they haven't been able to access their normal treatment?

Duplication of figures has been brought up earlier in this thread.

Also:
Note. 8 These figures represent death registrations, there can be a delay between the date a death occurred and the date a death was registered. More information can be found in our impact of registration delays release.

No '8.' doesn't exist - so the figures don't represent actual registrations.

---------------------------

If these numbers were correct, then hospitals would be seriously overcrowded...a 50% increase in deaths relevant to the average?

Can anyone here who works for the NHS hands on, confirm any hospitals have these increases? As I've said previously, my partners hospital is a designated CV one - any suspected cases get sent there (from 3 large general hostpitals) and the numbers of patients showing symptoms (symptoms which are not unique to CV BTW) are roughly similar to what would normally be seen across the three sites.

 

[starbird]

Well done? It's such a dumb thing to say it's not even something that can even be discussed.

It's like saying that that if two dogs have sex in your living room, it can cause wifi signal to be boosted in your home by 3%.

Completely different things scientifically that there isn't even an ounce of science that suspects otherwise.

It wouldn't boost your signal by 3% but it could lower reception by 3% if they were having sex in front of your wifi receiver. This is a scientific fact that objects can block the range of your wifi if they are placed in the path from your wifi router and your wifi receiver, if you want to get pedantic. Keep them coming ......

 

[BREWSTERS]

I haven't looked into that guy in a few years but last time I checked he was known as pretty much a fraud and conspiracy theorist. Mainly because he has no proof behind anything he states as a fact. He used to (might be different now) point to studies that are debunked by other people in the field.

I'd invite anyone interested to look into Barrie Trower for themselves, he is in numerous vids on YT, and make their own mind up about him. And then compare what he says to these guys.

 

[AssetDomains]

If these numbers were correct, then hospitals would be seriously overcrowded...a 50% increase in deaths relevant to the average?

Can anyone here who works for the NHS hands on, confirm any hospitals have these increases? As I've said previously, my partners hospital is a designated CV one - any suspected cases get sent there (from 3 large general hostpitals) and the numbers of patients showing symptoms (symptoms which are not unique to CV BTW) are roughly similar to what would normally be seen across the three sites.

Seriously what will it take for you to start believing this thing is real. More people died in week 14 of the year than have ever died in any week 14 since the ONS started measuring the statistics 6k more than the 5 year average if it wasn't covid related what do you think caused 6k extra people to die.
Yes I work in the NHS
Are A&E numbers down in my trust. Yes minor injury attendance has dropped of a cliff
Are the number of Chest X-rays roughly similar to normal. Yes
Is the condition of these patients the same NO far more of these X-rays are now needed portably we are being called to far more MET calls to people in acute respiratory distress on high flow oxygen on the wards. Seeing far more people attend A&E in acute respiratory distress Get called to far more calls to check intubation tube position in ITU/HDU. Seeing far more people being taken to morgue just days after attending.
Is the hospital overflowing no because the government had a huge drive to discharge people as soon as possible. Potentially to early looking at the discrepancy in the extra deaths in week 14
https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavi...hmg-letter-hospital-discharge-guidance-v3.pdf
Am I worried other serious conditions are being missed and people dying prematurely because they are to scared to attend or don't want to bother A&E during this crisis Yes.
Was the lockdown a bad idea looking at the figures definitely not imagine the carnage this thing would have caused left unchecked.

 

[starbird]

That is not what I'm talking about. You're just acting dumb now or have a lack of basic understanding of what is being said.

likewise

 

[LCHappy]

Did you read the BBC article 6000 extra people died in in the 14 week than did than did on average in the same week for the last 5 years not 1.
Massively more than any week 14 since the ons started recording statistics 15 years ago. 3475 linked to covid.
If these statistics don't convince people this thing is real and killing people prematurely I don't know what will

I don't think you can say that until 6 months worth data is in. These people may have died anyway, maybe 2-3 months early so if that is true then the death rate will fall well below average at some point.

Do you shut down the economy to give people an extra day? 2 days? 3 days? 3 months?

At what point do you think it is acceptable? I'm not having a go, I'd just like to get an idea of what people think is worth it.

 

[Siusaidh]

Is the hospital overflowing no because the government had a huge drive to discharge people as soon as possible.

PLUS: large numbers of people have had non-essential surgery cancelled/postponed, which has freed up hospital beds, including some heart surgery which can contribute to some (usually quite short) stays in ICU.

 

[newguy]

Did you read the BBC article 6000 extra people died in in the 14 week than did than did on average in the same week for the last 5 years not 1.
Massively more than any week 14 since the ons started recording statistics 15 years ago. 3475 linked to covid.
If these statistics don't convince people this thing is real and killing people prematurely I don't know what will

The impact in care homes looks like to be devastating across the board too: http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coron...are-homes/ar-BB12Auy7?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=UE09DHP

If I had a parent or grand parent in a care home right now I'd be tempted to pull them out. Otherwise it's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[AssetDomains]

I don't think you can say that until 6 months worth data is in. These people may have died anyway, maybe 2-3 months early so if that is true then the death rate will fall well below average at some point.

Do you shut down the economy to give people an extra day? 2 days? 3 days? 3 months?

At what point do you think it is acceptable? I'm not having a go, I'd just like to get an idea of what people think is worth it.

I think maybe your missing my point I'm just saying for people think this all been made as a conspiracy theory. These figures surely say covid is definitely real.
I'm sure now the conspiracy will move to bill gates and the illuminati created covid in a lab to grab power.
As for the economy the lockdown merits weren't about these 6000 poor souls. Its about there not being 60'000 - 120'000 extra people that didn't die that week.
If you accept the scientific estimates that 250'000 to 500'000 would have died if we had done nothing and now they think 20'000.
If that many people had died in a week the NHS would have been crippled and it wouldn't have just been largely the elderly who passed.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Seriously what will it take for you to start believing this thing is real. More people died in week 14 of the year than have ever died in any week 14 since the ONS started measuring the statistics 6k more than the 5 year average if it wasn't covid related what do you think caused 6k extra people to die.
Yes I work in the NHS
Are A&E numbers down in my trust. Yes minor injury attendance has dropped of a cliff
Are the number of Chest X-rays roughly similar to normal. Yes
Is the condition of these patients the same NO far more of these X-rays are now needed portably we are being called to far more MET calls to people in acute respiratory distress on high flow oxygen on the wards. Seeing far more people attend A&E in acute respiratory distress Get called to far more calls to check intubation tube position in ITU/HDU. Seeing far more people being taken to morgue just days after attending.
Is the hospital overflowing no because the government had a huge drive to discharge people as soon as possible. Potentially to early looking at the discrepancy in the extra deaths in week 14
https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavi...hmg-letter-hospital-discharge-guidance-v3.pdf
Am I worried other serious conditions are being missed and people dying prematurely because they are to scared to attend or don't want to bother A&E during this crisis Yes.
Was the lockdown a bad idea looking at the figures definitely not imagine the carnage this thing would have caused left unchecked.

Thanks for the insight.

Is your hospital a designated CV one, ie are cases being referred there that might otherwise have go to a different hospital in the area?

 

[diablo]

 

[Edwin]

In data released on 13 April, NHS England declared 681 people had died in hospital of coronavirus on 4 April.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

However, that total death toll was actually released by NHS England in stages.

5 April: 97 people were reported as having died on 4 April
6 April: 188 more people were reported as having died on 4 April
7 Apr: 179 ditto
8 Apr: 93 ditto
9 Apr: 47 ditto
10 Apr: 39 ditto
11 Apr: 28 ditto
12 Apr: 4 ditto
13 Apr: 5 ditto

In other words, it's taken almost 10 days for the stats to "stabilise" so that we get a close-to-true picture of how many people actually died in hospital of COVID-19 on 4 April itself.

And that sadly means that the 11,329 reported hospital deaths (total for the UK as a whole, from yesterday's update) is undercounting reality by many thousands. We won't know for close to 2 weeks what the actual figure was for yesterday.

This is an observation not a criticism of how the NHS are having to compile this data. But we should brace ourselves for the numbers to outstrip the already grim headlines.

 

[newguy]

And if anything, rather than the perception that the numbers are being inflated, as we learn today large numbers of suspected covid deaths are likely not even included in current stats. Logically I'd say that the shocking lack of PPE availability leads to a downplaying of the reality, as it's easier to brush it under the carpet that acknowledge unacceptable failings.

 

[AssetDomains]

Thanks for the insight.

Is your hospital a designated CV one, ie are cases being referred there that might otherwise have go to a different hospital in the area?

I don't think the Merseyside region have designated any one hospital as a covid centre ourselves The royal and Aintree all take covid patients. I know friends in specialist trusts in the region have them in there hospitals as well although they don't take them on as emergency cases these are people who have probably acquired it in hospital.