Does the subject of an image hold any rights to that image?

[kate-brownhill]

Just a brief background, we are building a boxing school website with the ex European champion Spencer Oliver and we would like to use some of his old in fight images for the design of the website. The site will be commercial in some of its aspects. i.e it will be making money eventually (hopefully).

I notice on Google that many of his images are from Getty images. What rights does he himself have to use images of himself if any? i.e do we need to pay their extortionate prices or does he have some legal right to use them? We don't mind paying for their use, but not the 40/3months/image the site quoted or estimated £3000 for one image. What about newspaper or printed photographs that he himself has? Can we use these safely once scanned in?

Any advice on this will be much appreciated.

Regards, Kate.

 

[alex]

Just a brief background, we are building a boxing school website with the ex European champion Spencer Oliver and we would like to use some of his old in fight images for the design of the website. The site will be commercial in some of its aspects. i.e it will be making money eventually (hopefully).

I notice on Google that many of his images are from Getty images. What rights does he himself have to use images of himself if any? i.e do we need to pay their extortionate prices or does he have some legal right to use them? We don't mind paying for their use, but not the 40/3months/image the site quoted or estimated £3000 for one image. What about newspaper or printed photographs that he himself has? Can we use these safely once scanned in?

Any advice on this will be much appreciated.

Regards, Kate.

I work for a stock photography agency in the same market as Getty...

Generally speaking the model has no special rights. For the image to be sold as a commercial image, the photographer would have had to obtain a model release from the model. It is the photographer who has the rights, Getty is the agency working on behalf of the photographer.

If no release exists then the image can't be used for commercial purposes, but can be used for editorial. In either case, the photographer is still the copyright holder and therefore could not be used without the photographer's explicit permission. If the model doesn't want the image to be used then it is up to him/her to take up the dispute through legal channels.

So in answer to your question, no Spencer Oliver can't use the images without permission from the photographer.

 

[tifosi]

Might be easier to get some photo's from fans? The local rag may have some digital copy somewhere as well. Would probably come much cheaper.

Alex. Seem to remember a while ago... last year I think, you giving complimentary subscriptions to the stock photo business. Was racking my brains a couple of days ago to remember where/when. You sent me one via email/pm and I can't for the life of me remember which!

 

[kate-brownhill]

Many Thanks for the detailed reply. Really appreciate it.

Any idea how we would go about finding out the name/contact of the photographer?

From reading a little about Getty and some of their 'scams' it seems that they are charging people for images while not actually having the photographers permission or even knowledge that they are acting as his/her agent.

edit: just spotted the name of the photographer on one of the images. Will try and find his contact details.

 

[aZooZa]

Kate, you could always ask him for help directly:

http://spenceroliverboxing.co.uk/contact_new.htm

 

[kate-brownhill]

Hi Dale, He's actually a good friend of ours. The problem is that the only images he has are from old newspaper clipping, magazines and some printed photographs. These are not going to transfer well to the website. I have left a message with the photographer and will see where that goes.

 

[Tricky1]

It is the photographer who has the rights, Getty is the agency working on behalf of the photographer.

I think you'll find the majority of photos, particularly the sport ones, are taken by Getty's own fulltime photographers, therefore the photographer has no rights.

Friend of mine has worked for them since he left school photographing mainly golf and rugby.

 

[spiderspider]

...... For the image to be sold as a commercial image, the photographer would have had to obtain a model release from the model.

If no release exists then the image can't be used for commercial purposes, ......

That may be the case for your agency, but is not the case for the UK law. No model release is required at any time, for any image. In the States its a different matter. I'm a photographer, and have had this argument many a time with models 'who know the law' (not).

For the OP, I would say to try and source the images direct. there will be more than 1 photographer, if he has had a good career. I don't know boxing, so have no idea.

If he has the old clippings from papers, contact them.

If you can find some good ones online, have a look in the meta data of the image, and see if the copyright info is in there.

 

[Blossom]

Is this him? http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Spencer Oliver boxer

 

[kate-brownhill]

Yes. That's him Nice pictures Blossom. Did not even know about those.

 

[Blossom]

Yes. That's him Nice pictures Blossom. Did not even know about those.

Might be worth dropping the photographer a message to see if they've got any more? Probably cheaper than Getty too, if not free

 

[kate-brownhill]

Might be worth dropping the photographer a message to see if they've got any more? Probably cheaper than Getty too, if not free

Yes, apparently its the guy who did his original website. We can use those for free. We will also take some ourselves so that should do it.

Thanks again Blossom.

 

[alex]

Alex. Seem to remember a while ago... last year I think, you giving complimentary subscriptions to the stock photo business.

Ah yes, it was very popular, but we closed it down having served it’s purpose.

That may be the case for your agency, but is not the case for the UK law.

With not being a lawyer I can’t really comment. Although with us dealing in the States it probably makes sense that we follow the strictest rules even in the UK – I know France is pretty strict on their releases too. I only commented based on what we're told internally. Most premium agencies, if not all, require a model release. Whether that’s UK law or not I don’t know, although that's what I had been told and in the past few years I know of several agencies that have settled with £xx,xxx - £xxx,xxxx figures when a model release wasn’t appropriately obtained (in the UK). Editorial is different. Either way, our customers demand model releases so if we want the sale we get the release. Similalry, none of our 200 distributors will accept an image that isn't fully model and property released.

I think you'll find the majority of photos, particularly the sport ones, are taken by Getty's own fulltime photographers, therefore the photographer has no rights.

Some may be, I don't know much about Getty’s internal structure or about the individual contracts, although I'm sure the majority of images come from third parties. We provide a decent chunk of them And I know several sports photographers who shoot on a freelance basis for them. Exclusively, but freelance with the copyright attributed to the photographer.

The way it usually works (in the premium stock industry anyway) is that photographers use an agency. That agency possibly sells direct to the end user, but may also go down a distribution channel, hence why an image provided to a third party agency ends up on say Getty - whilst the photographer may not necessarily know explicitly, this can only be done if they've agreed in the terms and conditions they sign.

Thinking about it, about half our team are ex-Getty so I should probably just ask them

 

[Blossom]

Yes, apparently its the guy who did his original website. We can use those for free. We will also take some ourselves so that should do it.

Thanks again Blossom.

No problem, glad you got it sorted