to sell or not to sell that is the question

[pugyrob]

Ok. I have 1000 or so names I will never develop and really I no longer buy and sell much. I am going to sell but cannot help thinking that it is the wrong time with .uk coming up.

What are peoples thoughts about selling at the right time and how .uk affects sales prices WHEN they are available?

 

[Skinner]

I don't think it will matter much at first, the first money will be from those willing to split the pair, but be a while before prices go back up.

 

[Edwin]

I think the launch of the .uk can't hurt .co.uk prices (any more than the uncertainty did, I mean) when considered as a whole with their matching .uk...

The unknown is whether the perceived value of a "set" will be:
.co.uk + .uk = .co.uk
.co.uk + .uk > .co.uk
.co.uk + .uk >> .co.uk

As such, if you can afford the wait, probably best to hang on and see what sort of traction the .uk launch gets in the mainstream media.

 

[namealot]

To sell or not I suppose it’s how you think it will it be perceived will it be lesser, equal or greater (will it be the com to current co.uk, org.uk to co.uk or take the place of the co.uk?) How long that will take, what the market will be when it finds its level? and for me the massive how will “g” treat them?

Also you’re beliefs about names/extensions for many the assumption appears to be they are only ever increasing in value? (Not my personal one) I’d say “uk” announcement at least from a domainers point highlighted the fragility of co.uk cctld aftermarket also plethora of new on the horizon, how search engines have changed (emd, directories etc ) general route they appear to be going down, advancements in technologies to me don’t point to a strengthening market ?

Presently I see chances of bigger profit as getting the other at reg fee and selling UK and co.uk as separate entities double cherry bite sooner rather than later ?

 

[websaway]

Ok. I have 1000 or so names I will never develop and really I no longer buy and sell much. I am going to sell but cannot help thinking that it is the wrong time with .uk coming up.

What are peoples thoughts about selling at the right time and how .uk affects sales prices WHEN they are available?

This is a no brainer really if you think about it.

It will all depend on the price you get for the names.
Low offer price - Hold
High offer price - sell.

 

[Retired_Member38]

The unknown is whether the perceived value of a "set" will be:
.co.uk + .uk = .co.uk
.co.uk + .uk > .co.uk
.co.uk + .uk >> .co.uk

For some, the value of .co.uk + .uk will be less than the .co.uk was originally worth.

If you're going to develop you realistically have no idea which of the two are going to win. So you risk ending up on the 'wrong' one which could be an expensive mistake to make. No such risk if you go on the .com instead.

I'm reckoning .co.uk + .uk is worth 5% or so more... purely as an option to try and dump a penalty without having to change your brand name.

 

[julian]

One problem with that might be that a 'really good' .co.uk, the .com would be out of reach £wise for most?

If I was starting with the choice of dev on .uk or .co.uk today I'd dev .uk, 301 the .co.uk, I'm basing that on why should serps penalise .uk - unless it's viewed in the same type of light as a new gTLD gash which I doubt?

For some, the value of .co.uk + .uk will be less than the .co.uk was originally worth.

If you're going to develop you realistically have no idea which of the two are going to win. So you risk ending up on the 'wrong' one which could be an expensive mistake to make. No such risk if you go on the .com instead.

I'm reckoning .co.uk + .uk is worth 5% or so more... purely as an option to try and dump a penalty without having to change your brand name.

 

[Retired_Member38]

If I was starting with the choice of dev on .uk or .co.uk today I'd dev .uk, 301 the .co.uk, I'm basing that on why should serps penalise .uk - unless it's viewed in the same type of light as a new gTLD gash which I doubt?

I'm not talking about Google penalising all .uk's - that won't happen. I'm talking about them penalising your specific one. If they do that and you have the .co.uk then you can flip to that in a relatively pain free manner as you will still be on a uk extension, and your exact business name won't have changed.

If you think you might have a penalty in your future then there is some value in that.... if you're building something rock solid with zero chance of trouble then imo the downside of potentially betting on the wrong extension to build on, outweighs the upside of having a penalty escape route if you need it.

So for some people the pair of .co.uk/.uk will be worth a fair bit more than the .co.uk would have been alone... for some people it'll be worth less than if .uk never existed. I suppose what your thoughts on that are, will depend on how penalty proof you think your business model is. Or how confident you are you can back the right horse in the .co.uk/.uk race.

 

[Edwin]

If you have a qualified .co.uk you control both horses for 5 years... sounds like a good way to run a race!

 

[namealot]

Thinking development Goggle has filed for 101 of the new g TLD’s would they favour there own (at least at the beginning) can anyone see them not? There past anti-competitive practices record isn’t great longer term all maybe the same but could be a big market advantage to start? Presently I’d say its about even with com. co.uk will the “co.uk” “uk” situation with the possibility of one weakening the other push that balance allowing “g’s” own or even other’s to take the place?

 

[Edwin]

Thinking development Goggle has filed for 101 of the new g TLD’s would they favour there own (at least at the beginning) can anyone see them not? There past anti-competitive practices record isn’t great longer term all maybe the same but could be a big market advantage to start? Presently I’d say its about even with com. co.uk will the “co.uk” “uk” situation with the possibility of one weakening the other push that balance allowing “g’s” own or even other’s to take the place?

Definitely not. They'd be mad to favour them. They've already got an endless queue of lawsuits on the go over their search engine ranking practices (most recently a spanking from the EU) so why pour a very large bucket of petrol on that particular fire?

 

[namealot]

Definitely not. They'd be mad to favour them. They've already got an endless queue of lawsuits on the go over their search engine ranking practices (most recently a spanking from the EU) so why pour a very large bucket of petrol on that particular fire?

They seam to see that lawsuits in the end are just part of there business practice and any fines/cost etc are minimal against the profits at the end of the day?

I thought the proposed changes Google agreed so far have done little to satisfy the competitors complaints that prompted the inquiry in the EU?

In the states the United States Federal Trade Commission’s antitrust case against Google, which concluded that Google had not violated antitrust law ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/06/t...rust-settlement-with-european-union.html?_r=0

 

[websaway]

A big downside I see to the new gtld's is that they will soak up liquidity in the aftersales market, and that money won't be reintroduced by sales, most of it will simply be lost.

How intelligent are the people who now strengthen their portfolio with quality .com and co.uk domains and so take advantage of the power that will exist in these extensions amid the confusion that is imminent.

 

[WalkinDude]

500million global businesses expected to exist in the not to distant future. 250million domains registered so far of which only 10 to 15% are considered to have any realistic commercial value. So lets say 35million domains.

Few million more may get developed into something of value so call it 40million.

So seems to me in America they are asking themselves why such a small portion of the existing .com/.biz/.net domains offer any clear commercial value.

Being American's they won't dwell on that question for too long given whatever the reason there's a surefire way to do something about it.

more tld's.

So you're in business in Chicago but only one person can own Chicago.com so with this you got a chance at Chicago.law, Chicago.plumbing, Chicago.whatever.

Now people say oh why would you want to own Chicago.Law when you can own ChicagoLaw.com??? Well for a start someone else already owns ChicagoLaw.com and if you want it off them you will have to remortgage your house etc. Whereas get your skates on and you can have Chicago.Law right now for reg fee etc.

Now your a lawyer not a seo expert or domainer. You barely care if google recognizes Chicago.Law as 'up there' with ChicagoLaw.com. Your main interested is how 'Chicago.Law' looks on your business card and in your ads in the local media etc, and quite frankly it will look fantastic.

One day, your Chicago.Law will rival ChicagoLaw.com in value and prestige. Maybe not this year, maybe not in the next 5 years but sooner or later it will. Cos when it comes down it, it just looks better, it's shorter, it's even more 'immediate'.

Overall I think the ntld's are going to be a huge success. Just not in the way domainers who are unwilling to change their way of thinking will be happy about. They will be a huge success for end users and domainers who get their skates on and re-align their portfolios to this new reality.

Then you got Google, Amazon possibly becoming registrars? Ebay too will follow suite. Now they are probably going to offer off the shelf solutions where you get preferential listings as long as you happy with TeddyShop.ebay or something. Now if you do all your business via ebay why would you want the hassle and expense of any other solution?

So of these 250million domains now registered, the very premium will probably see their prices go up, but bottom 75%-85% of those domains baring few exceptions are toast.

 

[websaway]

500million global businesses expected to exist in the not to distant future. 250million domains registered so far of which only 10 to 15% are considered to have any realistic commercial value. So lets say 35million domains.

Few million more may get developed into something of value so call it 40million.

So seems to me in America they are asking themselves why such a small portion of the existing .com/.biz/.net domains offer any clear commercial value.

Being American's they won't dwell on that question for too long given whatever the reason there's a surefire way to do something about it.

more tld's.

So you're in business in Chicago but only one person can own Chicago.com so with this you got a chance at Chicago.law, Chicago.plumbing, Chicago.whatever.

Now people say oh why would you want to own Chicago.Law when you can own ChicagoLaw.com??? Well for a start someone else already owns ChicagoLaw.com and if you want it off them you will have to remortgage your house etc. Whereas get your skates on and you can have Chicago.Law right now for reg fee etc.

Now your a lawyer not a seo expert or domainer. You barely care if google recognizes Chicago.Law as 'up there' with ChicagoLaw.com. Your main interested is how 'Chicago.Law' looks on your business card and in your ads in the local media etc, and quite frankly it will look fantastic.

One day, your Chicago.Law will rival ChicagoLaw.com in value and prestige. Maybe not this year, maybe not in the next 5 years but sooner or later it will. Cos when it comes down it, it just looks better, it's shorter, it's even more 'immediate'.

Overall I think the ntld's are going to be a huge success. Just not in the way domainers who are unwilling to change their way of thinking will be happy about. They will be a huge success for end users and domainers who get their skates on and re-align their portfolios to this new reality.

Then you got Google, Amazon possibly becoming registrars? Ebay too will follow suite. Now they are probably going to offer off the shelf solutions where you get preferential listings as long as you happy with TeddyShop.ebay or something. Now if you do all your business via ebay why would you want the hassle and expense of any other solution?

So of these 250million domains now registered, the very premium will probably see their prices go up, but bottom 75%-85% of those domains baring few exceptions are toast.

only one chicago.law ( not enough law names for the extension to get recognition )
chicagoLawyer.com ( for sale )
chicagolaw.us ( for sale )
chicagolaw.info ( for sale )
chicagoCityLaw.com ( available to register )
What has happened to .pro ?
It's not as you are visualising.
I think it's the end users that will not want to change, any success will be derived from speculators registering shedloads of names, the same as with info and biz.
Most businesses will view the new extensions as nothing more than novelty names.

 

[WalkinDude]

The entire technological framework for what a domain is, and what you can do with it is about to change. The ball has barely started rolling. Few years from now the domain business as we view it now will seem archaic. Some of these new tld's are coming with features and applications that going to offer serious opportunities.

But you can to and fro over this all you we want but there's something that you cannot dispute, and that's that in all human commercial activity, things don't just stay the same. They evolve. The only question is where that evolution will lead us to, not if there will be an evolution.

 

[Skinner]

My only concern is people recognising these names as domain names.

Come check out chicago.law for more information!.

Do you always have to put www.chicago.law in your print ?

When you give it to people on the phone, you say yeah check out the website chicago.law for more, they will question it. I have experienced this with .co and .tel names, and it gets real old, real quick.

Search Engine wise and online links no problems as far as I can see, but print and spoken are a problem, also means sitting on the names until these issues reduce.

 

[websaway]

The entire technological framework for what a domain is, and what you can do with it is about to change. The ball has barely started rolling. Few years from now the domain business as we view it now will seem archaic. Some of these new tld's are coming with features and applications that going to offer serious opportunities.

But you can to and fro over this all you we want but there's something that you cannot dispute, and that's that in all human commercial activity, things don't just stay the same. They evolve. The only question is where that evolution will lead us to, not if there will be an evolution.

The more it changes the stronger the recognised brand extensions will become for entities who are not interested in novelty change.
The .com and .co.uk have millions of names registered advertising the extension every day. The bottom line is that the volume of new extensions will not achieve anything more than confusion. Joe public won't even know they are domain extensions any more than .info .biz .pro .ltd.uk etc. etc.

Why would anyone prefer Chicago.law when they can have ChicagoLaw.us ?

 

[Edwin]

My only concern is people recognising these names as domain names.

Come check out chicago.law for more information!.

Do you always have to put www.chicago.law in your print ?

When you give it to people on the phone, you say yeah check out the website chicago.law for more, they will question it. I have experienced this with .co and .tel names, and it gets real old, real quick.

Search Engine wise and online links no problems as far as I can see, but print and spoken are a problem, also means sitting on the names until these issues reduce.

Plus since none of the new extensions are going to see widespread use any time soon, you can't count on "familiarity" getting you over that hump.

If you're tracking the daily increases in the new GTLD registrations, the pattern looks like this (adjusted up and down depending on the horrible-ness of each particular extension)
1) Small number of registrations day 1
2) Gradual ramp of registrations days 2-6 (as price drops from 5 figures towards "launch price")
3) Spike of registrations on first day of full availability as preorders get processed
4) Flurry of registrations in the next couple of days or so as domainers chatter on forums about who's registered what and some people get a bit "buying spree crazy"
5) Dribble of registrations after that, no more than a few dozen to a few hundred a day
6) For most extensions, a "brick wall" of disinterest once the next batch of new GTLD launch - registrations slow to an even slower trickle

There's no conceivable way that the pattern above is going to lead to an extension with enough "oomph" to embed itself in the average person's consciousness. Arguably even .info and .biz are teetering on the edge between known/dubious and they've been around for 13 years and have millions of registrations each.

Remember, both the registries and the registrars are constantly promoting the newest, shiniest thing - so last week's "exciting" new GTLD launch seamlessly turns into last week's news.

 

[WalkinDude]

The more it changes the stronger the recognised brand extensions will become for entities who are not interested in novelty change.
The .com and .co.uk have millions of names registered advertising the extension every day. The bottom line is that the volume of new extensions will not achieve anything more than confusion. Joe public won't even know they are domain extensions any more than .info .biz .pro .ltd.uk etc. etc.

Why would anyone prefer Chicago.law when they can have ChicagoLaw.us ?

I sat through the Schilling sit down on this and I've acknowledged in many ways both sides are right. Top dotcoms/.co.uk are only going to come out of this winning. But the other side is right to.

As someone put it, if you are priced out of Manhattan sooner or later someone is going to invent a city in the desert called Las Vegas.

This IS what is going to happen. There will be those who will say yes I want that premium traditional, there will be those that say no I'll take my chances I'd rather have chicago.law for reg and spend my savings turning it into something.

So I approach this from the point of view both key arguements are correct, and I disagree with anyone who says the ntlds will be a failure or people who say they will adversely affect the price of existing premium.

Only thing I've added is yes I do think long term Chicago.Law is going to bury Chicago.anythingotherthandotcom from the point of view of those who work in law.

.Law is lawyers the real estate equivalent of what 'fleet street' is to journalists, what silicon valley is to .com entrepeneurs, it's their 'their place'. Their arena, and anyone can argue cos the impact won't be game changing THIS YEAR, they can put it down, but come back in ten years and we'll see then cos that's how long it took for dotcom to make it's name also.