to sell or not to sell that is the question

[websaway]

I sat through the Schilling sit down on this and I've acknowledged in many ways both sides are right. Top dotcoms/.co.uk are only going to come out of this winning. But the other side is right to.

As someone put it, if you are priced out of Manhattan sooner or later someone is going to invent a city in the desert called Las Vegas.

This IS what is going to happen. There will be those who will say yes I want that premium traditional, there will be those that say no I'll take my chances I'd rather have chicago.law for reg and spend my savings turning it into something.

So I approach this from the point of view both key arguements are correct, and I disagree with anyone who says the ntlds will be a failure or people who say they will adversely affect the price of existing premium.

Only thing I've added is yes I do think long term Chicago.Law is going to bury Chicago.anythingotherthandotcom from the point of view of those who work in law.

.Law is lawyers the real estate equivalent of what 'fleet street' is to journalists, what silicon valley is to .com entrepeneurs, it's their 'their place'. Their arena, and anyone can argue cos the impact won't be game changing THIS YEAR, they can put it down, but come back in ten years and we'll see then cos that's how long it took for dotcom to make it's name also.

This is exactly the point, the number of extensions are splintering volume.
You are talking about people who work in law and there are not enough of them to have any impact, it's the consumer you have to convince not the people in the industry. Do you want to spend millions of dollars trying to educate the consumer that you use Chicago.law and law is a new extension but we can't explain why we don't use .com and we are sorry that we have to pass on to you, the consumer, any additional costs as a result of us educating you on what is and what is not a domain extension, and what about the shareholders.
How much is ChicagoCityLaw.com ?
$10

 

[WalkinDude]

This is exactly the point, the number of extensions are splintering volume.
You are talking about people who work in law and there are not enough of them to have any impact, it's the consumer you have to convince not the people in the industry. Do you want to spend millions of dollars trying to educate the consumer that you use Chicago.law and law is a new extension but we can't explain why we don't use .com and we are sorry that we have to pass on to you, the consumer, any additional costs as a result of us educating you on what is and what is not a domain extension, and what about the shareholders.
How much is ChicagoCityLaw.com ?
$10

All these arguements suggest A. The market thinks rationally. It doesn't. Or why is someone out there paying $1000 a year just for licensing of of [email protected] as an email address? Why? when by your argument they could just hand reg and have [email protected] couldn't they? B. All the arguments that favour the domineers traditional methods of doing business cannot be challenged. They will.

There's been a nice 15 year period where domaineers [well the good ones], have got hold of blahblah.com and changed 'the earth'.£££$$$'s for it.

Now the market is fighting back, and it will evolve until it finds a solution. The current system favours hogging, not development and evolution, the market is fighting back.

Anyone honestly think Google are applying for 100ntld's just cos they feel like it?

Or it could just be they see a huge gaping vulnerability about to appear. Gang of savvy people could form .pii, a dedicated domainsphere of websitebots dedicated to forming one huge search engine, one huge dedicated affiliate search engine something or the other, which is basically what under the bonnet all google is, and this would be how you take on a company like google? Each new reg of .pii is automatically gonna get a cut of action isn't it? At google they could be concerned ideas like this could prove popular given the enemies they create every day with their stranglehold on the internet and everyone singing and dancing to follow their rules, and structures.

Something like this? So Google are thinking Chryst, we best get there first and introduce .google??? Now at the very least it seems to me that if you are introducing .google, it says something, can we agree it says at the very least something about your faith in Google.dotcom??? To what extent we do not know yet.

So here we are domaineers honestly trying to tell themselves this is about whether or not lovelydonuts.co.uk will be worth anything this time next year?

I'm suggesting that's just the tip of the iceberg of what is coming that's all.


This is normal.

 

[Skinner]

Walkin, I'm curious, is your money where your mouth is ?

How many of the new TLDs have you purchased so far ?

Further to the above, which ones have you invested in, don't need specific names just the extension? Be interesting to look back in the future at those of the 1,000 you chose do well

There are about a few I have considered purely for online usage which would be .gym, .land, .plumber for example, nothing I have purchased tho.

 

[websaway]

All these arguements suggest A. The market thinks rationally. It doesn't. Or why is someone out there paying $1000 a year just for licensing of of [email protected] as an email address? Why? when by your argument they could just hand reg and have [email protected] couldn't they? B. All the arguments that favour the domineers traditional methods of doing business cannot be challenged. They will.

There's been a nice 15 year period where domaineers [well the good ones], have got hold of blahblah.com and changed 'the earth'.£££$$$'s for it.

Now the market is fighting back, and it will evolve until it finds a solution. The current system favours hogging, not development and evolution, the market is fighting back.

Anyone honestly think Google are applying for 100ntld's just cos they feel like it?

Or it could just be they see a huge gaping vulnerability about to appear. Gang of savvy people could form .pii, a dedicated domainsphere of websitebots dedicated to forming one huge search engine, one huge dedicated affiliate search engine something or the other, which is basically what under the bonnet all google is, and this would be how you take on a company like google? Each new reg of .pii is automatically gonna get a cut of action isn't it? At google they could be concerned ideas like this could prove popular given the enemies they create every day with their stranglehold on the internet and everyone singing and dancing to follow their rules, and structures.

Something like this? So Google are thinking Chryst, we best get there first and introduce .google??? Now at the very least it seems to me that if you are introducing .google, it says something, can we agree it says at the very least something about your faith in Google.dotcom??? To what extent we do not know yet.

So here we are domaineers honestly trying to tell themselves this is about whether or not lovelydonuts.co.uk will be worth anything this time next year?

I'm suggesting that's just the tip of the iceberg of what is coming that's all.


This is normal.

One more shot.

London..info
Birmingham..info
Manchester..info
Bristol..info
Coventry..info

None of these have been developed, all have been registered for 13 years.
dot Info was released when there was little choice for anything remotely as good as these domains to register and info covers information for everything.
Loads registered, but the number of registrations is not what matters, the extension has to have massive numbers developed to gain traction and with so many new extensions that is not even a remote possibility.

 

[julian]

@WalkinDude

There might be one very serious flaw in your argument.

Even if chicago.law is as good as you hope - joe bloggs is never going to get near to owning or affording a domain like that for reg fee as you stated in your post, so in actual fact it's just the same thing over again with premium .com/.co.uk's being 'hoarded'.


So, I can't have chicago.law so do I reg: joebloggschicago.law or joebloggslaw.com etc? I know what I'd rather have.

 

[Edwin]

Julian's spot on. Domain investors are going to vacuum up the obvious combinations in the new gtld so regardless of how the rollout plays out end users are still playing catch up...

 

[WalkinDude]

@WalkinDude

There might be one very serious flaw in your argument.

Even if chicago.law is as good as you hope - joe bloggs is never going to get near to owning or affording a domain like that for reg fee as you stated in your post, so in actual fact it's just the same thing over again with premium .com/.co.uk's being 'hoarded'.


So, I can't have chicago.law so do I reg: joebloggschicago.law or joebloggslaw.com etc? I know what I'd rather have.

No you will register HillCrescent.Law which is in Chicago.... which is why geo's are disappearing like as fast as they can be registered in these ntlds

Normally a domainer wants a domain with as many possible buyers for it as possible. But most end users are conducting business within a fixed geographical location. I think that's what alot of domainers can't get their head around. suchandsuch.suchandsuch etc has no more meaning to them or greater purpose than having a half decent premium business number/mobilenumber.


There isn't in my view a domainer in the world who understands the unique domaining needs of every locality in the world. It's not possible, those localities are working out their needs with these ntld opportunities as we speak.

 

[WalkinDude]

Walkin, I'm curious, is your money where your mouth is ?

How many of the new TLDs have you purchased so far ?

Further to the above, which ones have you invested in, don't need specific names just the extension? Be interesting to look back in the future at those of the 1,000 you chose do well

There are about a few I have considered purely for online usage which would be .gym, .land, .plumber for example, nothing I have purchased tho.

Will be getting back to you on that one. It's a discussion I'd like to have.

 

[websaway]

No you will register HillCrescent.Law which is in Chicago.... which is why geo's are disappearing like as fast as they can be registered in these ntlds

Normally a domainer wants a domain with as many possible buyers for it as possible. But most end users are conducting business within a fixed geographical location. I think that's what alot of domainers can't get their head around. suchandsuch.suchandsuch etc has no more meaning to them or greater purpose than having a half decent premium business number/mobilenumber.


There isn't in my view a domainer in the world who understands the unique domaining needs of every locality in the world. It's not possible, those localities are working out their needs with these ntld opportunities as we speak.

but you keep dodging the fact that there are only so many clubs, so many law businesses, so many bike businesses. You need volume development for the extension to get recognition ( not registrations ) most of the registrations will be an ego thing if they register them at all. You are using every argument as to why you wish they would work and that you will be in at the beginning but you are not looking at the numbers. The very fact that there are so many new extensions is the very fact that they will not last.
Look at .tel and .mobi everybody owns a telephone or a mobile phone yet .tel has only 148,000 registrations in 8 years.

 

[WalkinDude]

.com/.tel,mobi etc are utterly meaningless. .com got there first, and hence has the value. If it had kicked off with dot.info 25 years ago that would be today's 'dotcom', using .tel as an example doesn't make sense to me. New tld's have specific function and purpose.

I take issue with you suggesting i'm 'dodging' anything. I'm here having a debate and nothing more. I may be 100% wrong, purpose of any debate forum is to offer a thorough analysis, not just everyone go with the view that suits their current investments and that's it. I don't represent any of the ntld's, even in here I don't regard myself as anyone of note.

But most of my analysis if not confirmed by threads in here is certainly stimulated by threads I read in here from which I go on to do more research.

Joined this place utterly miserable and dejected as a domaineer.

One day i'm posting domains for sale and someone pm's me that I got all my exacts wrong, my actual exacts weren't even 5% of what I'd posted on the domains I wished to sell. Newbie error etc.

So straight away I put up a post explaining it was a genuine error.

Now this is not an unusual story, I've seen it happen many times since. It's what happened next I wish to share. So I put up this post 'sorry blah blah, I then say this is absolute rock bottom day for me as a domainer'

And you know what one of you guys [can't remember who] came back with.

'Son this is is probably your best day'...

So I go away and have a think about this. How can my worst day be my best day?


Aha I think, he's saying, stop lying to yourself, stop domaining like so many do based on what it suits you you believe and start domaining based on what you actually see happenning.

So I go from 800 domains to barely 50 now, yet you couldn't get me to pick 5 of the 50 I got left now and swap them for the 750 I got rid of. And doesn't mean all 750 were duffers. Got xxx for some of them, rarely less than reg fee back, but point is what's Golden to Sue isn't necessarily Golden to Bob etc.

Someone else said in here, if you don't believe in it, don't expect anyone else to.

So I ask you, how is it possible for for one person to 'believe in' 1000 domains. Or 5000 domains?

Now far as i'm concerned I can keep my opinions to myself can't I???? Or I can do what others did with me when I joined Acorn. And share my views, in the hope it will help someone else reading these posts. And that's all I'm doing.

 

[julian]

I can see where your coming from - you've done a lot better than 95% of people who have ever tried punting on domaining so don't be hard on yourself.

I think what you say is interesting - I enjoy a good debate trashing it out and all that (trying to find an angle to piss Edwin off )

I am torn apart inside - I think of [placenames].plumber - the logic is undeniable, yet I can't bring myself to reg one, yet I've punted on worse..

.com/.tel,mobi etc are utterly meaningless. .com got there first, and hence has the value. If it had kicked off with dot.info 25 years ago that would be today's 'dotcom', using .tel as an example doesn't make sense to me. New tld's have specific function and purpose.

I take issue with you suggesting i'm 'dodging' anything. I'm here having a debate and nothing more. I may be 100% wrong, purpose of any debate forum is to offer a thorough analysis, not just everyone go with the view that suits their current investments and that's it. I don't represent any of the ntld's, even in here I don't regard myself as anyone of note.

But most of my analysis if not confirmed by threads in here is certainly stimulated by threads I read in here from which I go on to do more research.

Joined this place utterly miserable and dejected as a domaineer.

One day i'm posting domains for sale and someone pm's me that I got all my exacts wrong, my actual exacts weren't even 5% of what I'd posted on the domains I wished to sell. Newbie error etc.

So straight away I put up a post explaining it was a genuine error.

Now this is not an unusual story, I've seen it happen many times since. It's what happened next I wish to share. So I put up this post 'sorry blah blah, I then say this is absolute rock bottom day for me as a domainer'

And you know what one of you guys [can't remember who] came back with.

'Son this is is probably your best day'...

So I go away and have a think about this. How can my worst day be my best day?


Aha I think, he's saying, stop lying to yourself, stop domaining like so many do based on what it suits you you believe and start domaining based on what you actually see happenning.

So I go from 800 domains to barely 50 now, yet you couldn't get me to pick 5 of the 50 I got left now and swap them for the 750 I got rid of. And doesn't mean all 750 were duffers. Got xxx for some of them, rarely less than reg fee back, but point is what's Golden to Sue isn't necessarily Golden to Bob etc.

Someone else said in here, if you don't believe in it, don't expect anyone else to.

So I ask you, how is it possible for for one person to 'believe in' 1000 domains. Or 5000 domains?

Now far as i'm concerned I can keep my opinions to myself can't I???? Or I can do what others did with me when I joined Acorn. And share my views, in the hope it will help someone else reading these posts. And that's all I'm doing.

 

[WalkinDude]

Walkin, I'm curious, is your money where your mouth is ?

How many of the new TLDs have you purchased so far ?

Further to the above, which ones have you invested in, don't need specific names just the extension? Be interesting to look back in the future at those of the 1,000 you chose do well

There are about a few I have considered purely for online usage which would be .gym, .land, .plumber for example, nothing I have purchased tho.

Well Monkey.bike, Monkey.guru and Monkey.Clothing all gone, so lets just say folks defo using their imaginations out there given Monkey.xxx is also gone.

Nude.bike gone.... [scratches forehead], Nude.Plumbing available though.... point here being that more ridiculous the regs the more sign anything rational is gone or soon will be, and anything truly rational may in fact have some value given any sector nowadays only stays afloat propped up by superfluous spending on top of rational expenditure.

 

[Skinner]

No offense intended, your argument is compelling but unless you're putting your money down, then your input loses value. Its akin to the banks playing with someone elses money and no personal risk.

I'm with Julian on the GEP+.ServiceTLD but still can't make myself buy em.

IF google will take the right of the period as a keyword, so manchester.plumber both match, then they may gain seo play traction which will thrust them forward but too many variables for me.

Edit: I just read your post above, I'm not suggesting your dodging anything to be clear, its hard for me to understand why if you are so sure, you are not snapping them up.

 

[invincible]

I've been talking about domain names with a Mexican friend today. Mexico reopened .mx in 2009, allowing registrants with a .com.mx (and the other Mexican sld's) to register the equivalent in .mx before eventually opening the second level to anyone a few months later. From what I can establish as of January 2014 Mexico had just 600,000 domain names registered across all of *.mx. He tells me that .com.mx is still very popular there. Companies such as Santander and Movistar still use their .com.mx in preference to their .mx. It's made me curious to know how successful other SLD openings have been in respect of SLD domain name preference vs. existing third level domain names in advertising and publicity. We might just see the same thing happen here, but that could depend on positive publicity encouraging rebranding.

 

[websaway]

.com/.tel,mobi etc are utterly meaningless. .com got there first, and hence has the value. If it had kicked off with dot.info 25 years ago that would be today's 'dotcom', using .tel as an example doesn't make sense to me. New tld's have specific function and purpose.

I take issue with you suggesting i'm 'dodging' anything. I'm here having a debate and nothing more. I may be 100% wrong, purpose of any debate forum is to offer a thorough analysis, not just everyone go with the view that suits their current investments and that's it. I don't represent any of the ntld's, even in here I don't regard myself as anyone of note.

But most of my analysis if not confirmed by threads in here is certainly stimulated by threads I read in here from which I go on to do more research.

Joined this place utterly miserable and dejected as a domaineer.

One day i'm posting domains for sale and someone pm's me that I got all my exacts wrong, my actual exacts weren't even 5% of what I'd posted on the domains I wished to sell. Newbie error etc.

So straight away I put up a post explaining it was a genuine error.

Now this is not an unusual story, I've seen it happen many times since. It's what happened next I wish to share. So I put up this post 'sorry blah blah, I then say this is absolute rock bottom day for me as a domainer'

And you know what one of you guys [can't remember who] came back with.

'Son this is is probably your best day'...

So I go away and have a think about this. How can my worst day be my best day?


Aha I think, he's saying, stop lying to yourself, stop domaining like so many do based on what it suits you you believe and start domaining based on what you actually see happenning.

So I go from 800 domains to barely 50 now, yet you couldn't get me to pick 5 of the 50 I got left now and swap them for the 750 I got rid of. And doesn't mean all 750 were duffers. Got xxx for some of them, rarely less than reg fee back, but point is what's Golden to Sue isn't necessarily Golden to Bob etc.

Someone else said in here, if you don't believe in it, don't expect anyone else to.

So I ask you, how is it possible for for one person to 'believe in' 1000 domains. Or 5000 domains?

Now far as i'm concerned I can keep my opinions to myself can't I???? Or I can do what others did with me when I joined Acorn. And share my views, in the hope it will help someone else reading these posts. And that's all I'm doing.

Sorry about the dodging remark.
Because of the vast amount of keyword extensions, this will be about choice permutations, my bet is that a genuine secondary market in these domains will be virtually non existent.

Registrations
Development
Secondary Market

All separate issues, make sure you keep them apart.

 

[WalkinDude]

No offense intended, your argument is compelling but unless you're putting your money down, then your input loses value. Its akin to the banks playing with someone elses money and no personal risk.

I'm with Julian on the GEP+.ServiceTLD but still can't make myself buy em.

IF google will take the right of the period as a keyword, so manchester.plumber both match, then they may gain seo play traction which will thrust them forward but too many variables for me.

Edit: I just read your post above, I'm not suggesting your dodging anything to be clear, its hard for me to understand why if you are so sure, you are not snapping them up.

yeah what I'm going to do Sir is spend hours and hours of my time researching and just pop in here and hand it all over in return for 'acorn credibility'.... yeah rite....

 

[Skinner]

Fair enough, not the extensions they was more to gain an understanding of your examples because the .law example I felt was weak, it it was a secure extension where only recognised legal folk could get it, I may have bought into it as it gets credibility like .gov.uk does here. I have little interest in buying any either way, I keep trying but just no.

How about how many by volume, just a number, round it up, round it down, hell if its a huge secret ball park, are you in

single digitis 1-9
early doubles 10-29
mid doubles 30-59
high doubles 60-99
triples ?

I know if I was offered to buy into vegas as base rates, I'd be buying big or I'd be going homing.

 

[websaway]

singles

Looking at the secondary market where I'm sure people will be falling over each other to avail themselves of these domains.

http://www.sedo.co.uk/search/search...php+echo+$tracked;+?>&domain=.bike&language=e

 

[WalkinDude]

Fair enough, not the extensions they was more to gain an understanding of your examples because the .law example I felt was weak, it it was a secure extension where only recognised legal folk could get it, I may have bought into it as it gets credibility like .gov.uk does here. I have little interest in buying any either way, I keep trying but just no.

How about how many by volume, just a number, round it up, round it down, hell if its a huge secret ball park, are you in

single digitis 1-9
early doubles 10-29
mid doubles 30-59
high doubles 60-99
triples ?

I know if I was offered to buy into vegas as base rates, I'd be buying big or I'd be going homing.

I'll go with .plumbing...


I'd want London/Liverpool.plumbing and Emergency.Plumbing and not because of SEO, or any other technical BS, but cause they just look awesome. If I was a plumber I'd want a huge Emergency.Plumbing or Quotes.Plumbing on the side of my van.

but shock horror.... they've all been regged.... and NOT by me.

Now Mr Skinner you gonna suggest those aren't worth £20 each? That you couldn't shift them on at a profit???

 

[websaway]

I'll go with .plumbing...


I'd want London/Liverpool.plumbing and Emergency.Plumbing and not because of SEO, or any other technical BS, but cause they just look awesome. If I was a plumber I'd want a huge Emergency.Plumbing or Quotes.Plumbing on the side of my van.

but shock horror.... they've all been regged.... and NOT by me.

Now Mr Skinner you gonna suggest those aren't worth £20 each? That you couldn't shift them on at a profit???

Don't forget to write underneath on the van why Liverpool.plumbing has no extension on the end, because the thousands who see it won't be able to fathom it out, they will assume the end has fallen off of a sub domain.