.UK Announced

[websaway]

Limbo

​

I hope nominet have a better christmas than they have given the members on here.

Is it possible to forgive them for their absolute mismanagement of this situation.
Even if there was a climbdown the damage to the brand is huge.

 

[Nigel]

I think the BOD thought direct.uk would sail through but they'd need to get the timing right and make sure that the bulk of existing registrants would be oblivious to the fact that a consultation had started, and that they could fill in a feedback form.

How else can you explain the way they have behaved. They've known for a long time what they had in mind, yet they timed this with an end date of 7th January, and had public meetings in the run up to Christmas with very little announcement resulting in just 4 people attending Cardiff and Nil in Belfast (which was cancelled). I'm sure they sent out invites to the people they thought would support direct.uk.

But I think they've come unstuck and they can never say that this consultation is democratic. They have tried to legitimise it and say that they have 'engaged' with those most 'impacted' by this - see the Eleanor Bradley video and the article by Phil Kingsland on the guardian.co.uk but that is a ludicrous statement to make. I think once the major national newspapers and media hear that existing registrants were not sent an email about this important change then they'll find it hard to push through.

I think there will be a furore when .co.uk domain owners (particulary those who have built a business around a descriptive domain) find out that there has been a consultation but nominet, in their wisdom, decided that they need not be informed. I think we must try hard to get letters out to the national newspapers. It can be hard to get letters published but it can be done if they are short and to the point and if there is an article in that days paper that is relevant. So I'll be looking for an opportunity and hope everyone else gives it a go.

 

[markb]

Dont know if its already been suggested or done, but what about writing a press release and a few people chipping in to get it distributed and hopefully picked up by some popular newspapers?

 

[websaway]

I think the BOD thought direct.uk would sail through but they'd need to get the timing right and make sure that the bulk of existing registrants would be oblivious to the fact that a consultation had started, and that they could fill in a feedback form.

How else can you explain the way they have behaved. They've known for a long time what they had in mind, yet they timed this with an end date of 7th January, and had public meetings in the run up to Christmas with very little announcement resulting in just 4 people attending Cardiff and Nil in Belfast (which was cancelled). I'm sure they sent out invites to the people they thought would support direct.uk.

But I think they've come unstuck and they can never say that this consultation is democratic. They have tried to legitimise it and say that they have 'engaged' with those most 'impacted' by this - see the Eleanor Bradley video and the article by Phil Kingsland on the guardian.co.uk but that is a ludicrous statement to make. I think once the major national newspapers and media hear that existing registrants were not sent an email about this important change then they'll find it hard to push through.

I think there will be a furore when .co.uk domain owners (particulary those who have built a business around a descriptive domain) find out that there has been a consultation but nominet, in their wisdom, decided that they need not be informed. I think we must try hard to get letters out to the national newspapers. It can be hard to get letters published but it can be done if they are short and to the point and if there is an article in that days paper that is relevant. So I'll be looking for an opportunity and hope everyone else gives it a go.

The news update of 18th December 2012 (the salient bits are below)
dilutes all the necessities to widely inform domain holders. Nominet can defend their position by saying the initial consultation was always meant to be followed by a wider consultation.
Initially I think they felt the large registrars would jump on board because of the financial incentives offered but they then seen that the draft was seriously flawed and possibly legally challengeable and had to back pedal, but they are now covering themselves.
They will now engage with large portfolio owners and registrars ( if they have not already done so in secret ) to see if they can appease the powerful objectors.

The new chief operating officer was installed on 12th December 2012.


Below from Nominets news update 18th December 2012

We’ve had over 650 formal responses to date, as well as feedback from meetings, phone calls and emails.

There’s undoubtedly a wide range of opinions, particularly in the following areas:
• The principle of opening up the second level.
• Whether direct.uk should be treated as a new, distinct product within the .uk portfolio or as a transition or migration from existing SLDs.
• The fairest release mechanism.
• The impact on existing .co.uk, .org.uk or .me.uk registrants.
• How the package of security features proposed will contribute to our aims of improving trust and security.

We are considering all ideas and suggestions that have been – and continue to - flow in.
The consultation is a genuine process to gather the perspectives and thinking from a broad range of stakeholders in order to inform our decision-making.

Depending on the outcome of those assessments, we may look for further stakeholder views. Any Board decisions on this will be included in the official communiqué following the meeting.

 

[Stephen]

Media coverage?

Dont know if its already been suggested or done, but what about writing a press release and a few people chipping in to get it distributed and hopefully picked up by some popular newspapers?

I tried a few weeks ago on this thread to get support for a late media campaign (see pages 195 + 196)

Although I did get some support the over whelming consensus was no to spending money (Brassneck - was correct)

I do believe we as domainers and business people have a duty to bring this to the attention of the wider public and each in our own way are doing that, wether its a tweet, blog, FB comment, feedback to Nominet, letter to MP or a comment added to the Guardian article, I have seen people here actually doing things than just whinning about it!

We all need to keep doing our bit.

I would like to see a new organization formed "Uk Domain owners" that would have paid membership and that would enter into PR, Government lobbying and Nominet lobbying. Plus with added benefits of expanding the market for the sale and use of UK domains.

I belong to AITO the Association of Tour Opertors with my main business and it has grown from a drinking club for people in the same niche areas to a body that lobbies and gets benefits for its members (and is still a drinking club!). I really believe something can be created for UK domainers!

Once the .uk consultation closes, I will be looking at the matter more closely but in the meantime if anybody fancies being a founding member, please drop me an email at [email protected] or pm.

 

[Nigel]

I've just posted a Warning on the affiliates4u site - domains for sale section - telling them that the consultation ends on 7th January. A lot of affiliates use descriptive domains so hopefully a lot of these will respond.

Just added details of Edwin's site mydomainnames.co.uk to the A4u post - I've also submitted a thread on this to another us forum (it starred out details - sorry admin) - its awaiting moderation but hopefully they'll see the importance of this and add the thread

 

[Stephen]

more outlets?

I've just posted a Warning on the affiliates4u site - domains for sale section - telling them that the consultation ends on 7th January. A lot of affiliates use descriptive domains so hopefully a lot of these will respond.

Good, anybody else use other domaining / SEO / design / website sites that they could post on?

 

[Stephen]

PR v News section

The news update of 18th December 2012 (the salient bits are below)
dilutes all the necessities to widely inform domain holders. Nominet can defend their position by saying the initial consultation was always meant to be followed by a wider consultation.
Initially I think they felt the large registrars would jump on board because of the financial incentives offered but they then seen that the draft was seriously flawed and possibly legally challengeable and had to back pedal, but they are now covering themselves.
They will now engage with large portfolio owners and registrars ( if they have not already done so in secret ) to see if they can appease the powerful objector....

http://www.nominet.org.uk/news/latest/directuk-consultation-closes-7-january-%E2%80%93-give-us-your-views

Just one small comment, it is pity Nominet did not see fit to provide this as a press release, to get more exposure rather than the NEWS section the update appears in.

Although Nominet did hold Round table sessions, it has not done any PR on .uk according to its website since the initial release on 1-10-2012

 

[Sound]

I have read all the posts in this thread and agree with the general consensus that the Nominet consultation has plenty of flaws but it is still only a consultation and plenty are jumping the gun before anything formal has been decided.

Had Nominet contacted all owners of .co.uk domains certain members with portfolios would have been horrified that all sales would have dried up and that business were being made aware of something that may not yet happen Nominet is in a no win situation

The article in the Guardian by Adam Grunwerg was well written by a domainer and a member of this forum someone with a vested interested in not wanting .uk to happen.

From the very outset domainers have had the power to use all the traffic their names attract to make the public aware. I have yet to see anyone use this power.

Are portfolio owners warning people who are still purchasing domains that they will need to also buy the .uk when it is launched?

If you wonder why nominet has had to grow some bollocks its posts like "Would the world wide web have become the phenomenon it is today without domainers"

 

[websaway]

I have read all the posts in this thread and agree with the general consensus that the Nominet consultation has plenty of flaws but it is still only a consultation and plenty are jumping the gun before anything formal has been decided.

Had Nominet contacted all owners of .co.uk domains certain members with portfolios would have been horrified that all sales would have dried up and that business were being made aware of something that may not yet happen Nominet is in a no win situation

The article in the Guardian by Adam Grunwerg was well written by a domainer and a member of this forum someone with a vested interested in not wanting .uk to happen.

From the very outset domainers have had the power to use all the traffic their names attract to make the public aware. I have yet to see anyone use this power.

Are portfolio owners warning people who are still purchasing domains that they will need to also buy the .uk when it is launched?

If you wonder why nominet has had to grow some bollocks its posts like "Would the world wide web have become the phenomenon it is today without domainers"

The question posted by me was.
"Would the world wide web have become the phenomenom it is today without domainers. The likes of Jackson and schilling and our own Edwin Hayward"

I can't help but think that without the likes of these people promoting the web through the name industry the likes of google and particularly icann and nominet would have never become the success that they are.

Sounds like you don't see it that way.

 

[Sound]

if anyone is interested they should read the posts from Markus Jalmerot in the Guardian guardian.co.uk/media-network/media-network-blog/2012/dec/17/value-secure-uk-namespace-nominet
This from someone who purchased 20 of the two and one letter domains in the Nominet auction and is very pro .uk launch.

"I'm confident that the option to use .UK will benefit my own sites, my customers (all are positive) and genuine British businesses. Today, many businesses in London use .COM instead of .CO.UK. Why? Because .co.uk is not recognized by foreign visitors. Europeans use 2nd level extensions (such as .DE, .DK, .NL, .EU, .FR, .ES, .SE etc)
and they get confused by .co.uk, org.uk etc. With the option to use .UK, I think many restaurants and attractions will use that extension instead since it will look more professional and be easier to remember.

I'm still very happy with my 1 and 2 letter purchases such as NY.co.uk. Only bought around 20 of them and expect to be in auction for a few of them, if they launch .UK.. IMHO, Nominet will probably only recognize 'EU trademarks actively used'. While a handful or a few 100's domain names might be grabbed by trademark holders, most will be awarded to the current domain owners (IF they bothered to created a website..).

It's fair to allow .org.uk and .me.uk owners to register a corresponding .UK domain. They have just as much rights as any
.co.uk owner IMHO, since .UK should be represent both businesses, organisation and private registrants.

The new alternative (if ever launched..) is likely to be adopted slowly and .co.uk domains will still be highly popular for another 5/10/15 years.
If anyone prefer to pay lower registration fees and are happy with their current name; why not keep it? I believe that higher registration costs will benefit .UK from many 'domain parking' type of registrations and lead to more real businesses using it."

 

[Nigel]

I have read all the posts in this thread and agree with the general consensus that the Nominet consultation has plenty of flaws but it is still only a consultation and plenty are jumping the gun before anything formal has been decided.

Had Nominet contacted all owners of .co.uk domains certain members with portfolios would have been horrified that all sales would have dried up and that business were being made aware of something that may not yet happen Nominet is in a no win situation

The article in the Guardian by Adam Grunwerg was well written by a domainer and a member of this forum someone with a vested interested in not wanting .uk to happen.

From the very outset domainers have had the power to use all the traffic their names attract to make the public aware. I have yet to see anyone use this power.

Are portfolio owners warning people who are still purchasing domains that they will need to also buy the .uk when it is launched?

There is a very good chance that direct.uk will get introduced. It's clear that nominet want it introduced and are doing everything in their power to make it happen. I'm a lot more optimistic now however that there is a chance this proposal can be halted. I think Edwin, Stephen and a lot of the others have gained momentum with their opposition, various sites and articles. I think nominet are cavalier in the way they operate, never thinking about the time and money their existing customers have invested in .co.uk domains. Without these customers there wouldn't be a nominet.

As a company we have informed all potential buyers of the nominet consultation and we have directed them to the nominet website so that they can make an informed choice. Some have come back and purchased domains from us and some haven't. I have no doubt that this was the right way to handle the situation. Nominet's way of keeping existing registrants in the dark cannot be the right way.

 

[websaway]

if anyone is interested they should read the posts from Markus Jalmerot in the Guardian guardian.co.uk/media-network/media-network-blog/2012/dec/17/value-secure-uk-namespace-nominet
This from someone who purchased 20 of the two and one letter domains in the Nominet auction and is very pro .uk launch.

"I'm confident that the option to use .UK will benefit my own sites, my customers (all are positive) and genuine British businesses. Today, many businesses in London use .COM instead of .CO.UK. Why? Because .co.uk is not recognized by foreign visitors. Europeans use 2nd level extensions (such as .DE, .DK, .NL, .EU, .FR, .ES, .SE etc)
and they get confused by .co.uk, org.uk etc. With the option to use .UK, I think many restaurants and attractions will use that extension instead since it will look more professional and be easier to remember.

I'm still very happy with my 1 and 2 letter purchases such as NY.co.uk. Only bought around 20 of them and expect to be in auction for a few of them, if they launch .UK.. IMHO, Nominet will probably only recognize 'EU trademarks actively used'. While a handful or a few 100's domain names might be grabbed by trademark holders, most will be awarded to the current domain owners (IF they bothered to created a website..).

It's fair to allow .org.uk and .me.uk owners to register a corresponding .UK domain. They have just as much rights as any
.co.uk owner IMHO, since .UK should be represent both businesses, organisation and private registrants.

The new alternative (if ever launched..) is likely to be adopted slowly and .co.uk domains will still be highly popular for another 5/10/15 years.
If anyone prefer to pay lower registration fees and are happy with their current name; why not keep it? I believe that higher registration costs will benefit .UK from many 'domain parking' type of registrations and lead to more real businesses using it."

Your comments on how .uk would be implemented are flippant and your vision of the future if it was introduced is distorted and naive. When you flippantly say the current domain owners " who bothered to build a website" are you considering say someone who paid maybe £10,000 5 days before the cut off date.

You really do need to give more thought to what you say.

 

[addz123]

if anyone is interested they should read the posts from Markus Jalmerot in the Guardian guardian.co.uk/media-network/media-network-blog/2012/dec/17/value-secure-uk-namespace-nominet
This from someone who purchased 20 of the two and one letter domains in the Nominet auction and is very pro .uk launch.

"I'm confident that the option to use .UK will benefit my own sites, my customers (all are positive) and genuine British businesses. Today, many businesses in London use .COM instead of .CO.UK. Why? Because .co.uk is not recognized by foreign visitors. Europeans use 2nd level extensions (such as .DE, .DK, .NL, .EU, .FR, .ES, .SE etc)
and they get confused by .co.uk, org.uk etc. With the option to use .UK, I think many restaurants and attractions will use that extension instead since it will look more professional and be easier to remember.

I'm still very happy with my 1 and 2 letter purchases such as NY.co.uk. Only bought around 20 of them and expect to be in auction for a few of them, if they launch .UK.. IMHO, Nominet will probably only recognize 'EU trademarks actively used'. While a handful or a few 100's domain names might be grabbed by trademark holders, most will be awarded to the current domain owners (IF they bothered to created a website..).

It's fair to allow .org.uk and .me.uk owners to register a corresponding .UK domain. They have just as much rights as any
.co.uk owner IMHO, since .UK should be represent both businesses, organisation and private registrants.

The new alternative (if ever launched..) is likely to be adopted slowly and .co.uk domains will still be highly popular for another 5/10/15 years.
If anyone prefer to pay lower registration fees and are happy with their current name; why not keep it? I believe that higher registration costs will benefit .UK from many 'domain parking' type of registrations and lead to more real businesses using it."

a) There's 11 registered trademarks for "NY" in the UK alone. So big chance you won't even get to bid on the .uk in auction.

b) Nominet have already confirmed they have to respect tradermarks in the US and other countries outside of the EU because of reciprocal trademark agreements which are outside their control. It's easy to say "none of these trademark holders will care about it" but if you had a trademark and could get the rights to register a £1,000 or £10,000 domain for free do you not think you'd take it?

c) New domain will cost £30 to end-users once you include the mark-up. Do you really think it's worth it just for address verification and a security features which Nominet doesn't even implement on its own site?

d) Your domain would more than half in value and would become pointless to use if a competitor builds a markets a site on the .uk. It would just cause brand and traffic dilution. Like you said, people outside the UK would assume it's brand.uk so the .co.uk would just get forgotten and become untenable. If Nominet wants to change the main domain for UK businesses from .co.uk to .uk than it should be a carefully planned migraton and not a "new seperate product".

e) .co.uk has been promoted as THE domain for uk businesses for years. You can't just bring out a new domain and then say "sorry, this is now the TRUSTED domain for UK businesses. Go bid on it in auction.". If anything the .co.uk would have been sold on false pretence.

f) What happens to the 10 million people that just bought a .co.uk domain to develop in the last few months who haven't been made aware of the .uk consultation. They'll have no rights to .uk and won't even be able to bid on it before its released to the public according to current rules.

 

[websaway]

if anyone is interested they should read the posts from Markus Jalmerot in the Guardian guardian.co.uk/media-network/media-network-blog/2012/dec/17/value-secure-uk-namespace-nominet
This from someone who purchased 20 of the two and one letter domains in the Nominet auction and is very pro .uk launch.

"I'm confident that the option to use .UK will benefit my own sites, my customers (all are positive) and genuine British businesses. Today, many businesses in London use .COM instead of .CO.UK. Why? Because .co.uk is not recognized by foreign visitors. Europeans use 2nd level extensions (such as .DE, .DK, .NL, .EU, .FR, .ES, .SE etc)
and they get confused by .co.uk, org.uk etc. With the option to use .UK, I think many restaurants and attractions will use that extension instead since it will look more professional and be easier to remember.

I'm still very happy with my 1 and 2 letter purchases such as NY.co.uk. Only bought around 20 of them and expect to be in auction for a few of them, if they launch .UK.. IMHO, Nominet will probably only recognize 'EU trademarks actively used'. While a handful or a few 100's domain names might be grabbed by trademark holders, most will be awarded to the current domain owners (IF they bothered to created a website..).

It's fair to allow .org.uk and .me.uk owners to register a corresponding .UK domain. They have just as much rights as any
.co.uk owner IMHO, since .UK should be represent both businesses, organisation and private registrants.

The new alternative (if ever launched..) is likely to be adopted slowly and .co.uk domains will still be highly popular for another 5/10/15 years.
If anyone prefer to pay lower registration fees and are happy with their current name; why not keep it? I believe that higher registration costs will benefit .UK from many 'domain parking' type of registrations and lead to more real businesses using it."

You say me.uk org.uk have just as much rights to .uk as co.uk

So a person called banks who registered the .me.uk when it was released for personal use ( and that is precisely what it was intended for ) would have as much right to the .uk as a business that maybe earns the economy billions of pounds a year and employs thousands of people. You can surely see how your comments require more thought.

 

[Systreg]

Your comments on how .uk would be implemented are flippant and your vision of the future if it was introduced is distorted and naive.

You really do need to give more thought to what you say.

a) There's 11 registered trademarks for "NY" in the UK alone. So big chance you won't even get to bid on the .uk in auction.

You say me.uk org.uk have just as much rights to .uk as co.uk

@ Addz123 and Websaway, you are replying to Sound as if he said those things in his post you quoted, he didn't, what he posted was a quote from Markus Jalmerot in the comments section on this Guardian link he posted http://www.guardian.co.uk/media-net...2012/dec/17/value-secure-uk-namespace-nominet :wink:

 

[Sound]

Your comments on how .uk would be implemented are flippant and your vision of the future if it was introduced is distorted and naive. When you flippantly say the current domain owners " who bothered to build a website" are you considering say someone who paid maybe £10,000 5 days before the cut off date.

You really do need to give more thought to what you say.

Please reread my post before throwing personal insults around.

The post was a quote from Markus Jalmerot who replied to the article in the Guardian.

Markus purchased over 20 one and two letter domains in the last Nominet auction and also runs a successfully SEO company working with online businesses.

 

[Nigel]

a) There's 11 registered trademarks for "NY" in the UK alone. So big chance you won't even get to bid on the .uk in auction.

b) Nominet have already confirmed they have to respect tradermarks in the US and other countries outside of the EU because of reciprocal trademark agreements which are outside their control. It's easy to say "none of these trademark holders will care about it" but if you had a trademark and could get the rights to register a £1,000 or £10,000 domain for free do you not think you'd take it?

c) New domain will cost £30 to end-users once you include the mark-up. Do you really think it's worth it just for address verification and a security features which Nominet doesn't even implement on its own site?

d) Your domain would more than half in value and would become pointless to use if a competitor builds a markets a site on the .uk. It would just cause brand and traffic dilution. Like you said, people outside the UK would assume it's brand.uk so the .co.uk would just get forgotten and become untenable. If Nominet wants to change the main domain for UK businesses from .co.uk to .uk than it should be a carefully planned migraton and not a "new seperate product".

e) .co.uk has been promoted as THE domain for uk businesses for years. You can't just bring out a new domain and then say "sorry, this is now the TRUSTED domain for UK businesses. Go bid on it in auction.". If anything the .co.uk would have been sold on false pretence.

f) What happens to the 10 million people that just bought a .co.uk domain to develop in the last few months who haven't been made aware of the .uk consultation. They'll have no rights to .uk and won't even be able to bid on it before its released to the public according to current rules.

Brilliant summary - even if Markus isn't here on acorn!!

 

[Edwin]

Markus purchased over 20 one and two letter domains in the last Nominet auction and also runs a successfully SEO company working with online businesses.

Yes, but his stance is unsurprising given that I believe most of the 1-letter and 2-letter domains he bought (aside from ny.co.uk) were the .me.uk which cost him probably 1%-2% of what the .co.uk equivalents would have cost.

So it obviously furthers his agenda to suggest that Nominet's stance of providing equal treatment to .co.uk, .org.uk and .me.uk owners is the right approach, even though that's patently nonsense in "fairness" terms.

Everyone has biases - that's human nature - but some are just more obvious about it than others!

 

[Sound]

Brilliant summary - even if Markus isn't here on acorn!!

Markus is a member of the forum. is pro .uk along with plenty of others who watch this debate go around and around in circles from the sideline.