.UK Announced

[Nigel]

Given that by registering a .uk domain you enter into a 3 way contract with both Nominet and your registrar AND that it is a requirement to provide and maintain accurate contact details to Nominet (that can cost you your domain if you don't) and Nominet send end customers emails for renewal & suspension, I really do fail to see how if Nominet sent an email asking them to complete an optional short survey would be in breach of data protection. I can see that outsourcing the email may fail DP, but doing it themselves surely fits the "Uses made of the information" at http://www.nominet.org.uk/privacy-policy

Thanks for that very informative post. I agree with you - in fact that link you posted shows quite clearly that they have every right to contact existing registrants on this. It appears to be covered by this:

Uses made of the information

We use information held about you in the following ways:
• To ensure that content from our site is presented in the most effective manner for you and for your computer.
• To provide you with information, products or services that you request from us or which we feel may interest you, where you have consented to be contacted for such purposes.
• To carry out our obligations arising from any contracts entered into between you and us.
• To allow you to participate in our applications process.

If you do not want us to use your data in this way, or to pass your details on to third parties for marketing purposes, please write to us using the address information shown above.

So they are able to contact registrants in respect of 'information, products or services...which we feel may interest you...' and is certainly covered by 'to carry out our obligations arising from any contracts entered into between you and us'. Now we just need to hear from Eleanor Bradley on this.

 

[Sam]

Nigel

It was asked at the london meeting "Phil" was asked this in the meeting

The video is now online to view

http://www.nominet.org.uk/how-participate/events/events-meetings/uk-registrar-conference

Good point Getmein. I cannot believe that the data protection act would overide their responsibility to inform registrants of an important change that will directly affect their useage and enjoyment of their domain. Do you know that they are definitely giving this as an excuse? Have they put this in writing anywhere? or was it just given verbally at one of the meetings. Was anyone at any meeting where this excuse was given and can we have the name of the Nominet employee that offered up this excuse. I'm still waiting to hear from Eleanor Bradley on this and I'm not going to let it drop til they put something in writing.

 

[websaway]

Looks like things for the anti lobby have moved forward with edwins paper link below.

Though I am still digesting the contents, I do get the feeling it may give Nominet the impression that a revamped allocation of .uk domains might work.
While I see Edwins proposals as not being quite as lucrative to Nominet I could see them altering things to satisfy his suggestions and in that case it's not a case of if so much as how. I am still of the belief that if Nominet want me to use the .uk instead of or as well as the co.uk I have invested in, they should be somehow compensating me to do so, and should under no circumstances dilute the value of my domain which was purchased and developed in good faith.



Edwin’s brillant document:
http://www.mydomainnames.co.uk/ukpositionpaper.pdf

 

[Nigel]

Nigel

It was asked at the london meeting "Phil" was asked this in the meeting

The video is now online to view

http://www.nominet.org.uk/how-participate/events/events-meetings/uk-registrar-conference

Thanks very much - that's very useful

 

[getmein]

Do you know that they are definitely giving this as an excuse? Have they put this in writing anywhere? or was it just given verbally at one of the meetings.

I seem to remember it was mentioned by the chair during the London meeting webcast.

It's too early to say how many people will respond to the consultation, but I suspect it will represent an small percentage of individual registrants (although they may indeed account for a large number of domains).

I think we'll see a consultation that is being guided by Nominet who obviously have a vested interested, large registrars who subject to how it would be done will be attracted to having more stock to sell and finally large portfolio holders who have an interest in maintaining the status quo or seeing a more equitable release of the domains. A large number of individual registrants will be left to deal with direct.uk (if it goes ahead) post factum, without any previous knowledge of the consultation.

 

[Stephen]

.co.uk owners should have a say?

I'm sorry, but I think on this point Nominet are right. The contact details they hold are not intended to be used for anything other than the domains to which they relate, and certainly not for what would effectively be marketing purposes.

In the recent Nominet press release, even they now acknowledge that existing .co.uk owners are expressing ligitimate concerns over .uk.

• Whether direct.uk should be treated as a new, distinct product within the .uk portfolio or as a transition or migration from existing SLDs.
• The impact on existing .co.uk, .org.uk or .me.uk registrants.

Nominet should have contacted .co.uk owners on such a large potential change to the UK namespace by email.

Nominet haven't even included a note about the consultation on their email footers, renewal notices, suspension notices, invoices, whois, each web page, knowthenet.org.uk etc.
I know in our business we use every opportunity to communicate with our clients about important issues and they should have done the same.

The news about the .uk proposal is "not marketing" as they are not selling anything
just asking for opinions on a subject that would effect the registrants?

Although I would have liked to see another proposal for UK registrants with some potential consequences explained - as it is best practice to issue alternative audiences with different proposals if their knowledge of the subject matter as in most cases it would be less than the few registrars who have been contacted how are going to be the majority of respondents.

 

[websaway]

In the recent Nominet press release, even they now acknowledge that existing .co.uk owners are expressing ligitimate concerns over .uk.



Nominet should have contacted .co.uk owners on such a large potential change to the UK namespace by email.

Nominet haven't even included a note about the consultation on their email footers, renewal notices, suspension notices, invoices, whois, each web page, knowthenet.org.uk etc.
I know in our business we use every opportunity to communicate with our clients about important issues and they should have done the same.

The news about the .uk proposal is "not marketing" as they are not selling anything
just asking for opinions on a subject that would effect the registrants?

Although I would have liked to see another proposal for UK registrants with some potential consequences explained - as it is best practice to issue alternative audiences with different proposals if their knowledge of the subject matter as in most cases it would be less than the few registrars who have been contacted how are going to be the majority of respondents.

Even new registrants after 1st October 2012 are not issued with any kind of health warning.

 

[Stephen]

1 million+

Even new registrants after 1st October 2012 are not issued with any kind of health warning.

That will be 1 million+ UK NEW domains (currently confirmed at 635,399 per Nominet figures upto 31-10-12 ) under the current plan that will have to enter into the Landrush auction phase, that is if they get to know about .uk.

 

[websaway]

As I read the press release ( below )of the 18th December Nominet are on the back foot,or at least admitting that the proposals they put forward, though acceptable to some entities are simply not going to be acceptable to the majority who would not in the least benefit in it's implementation and would incur significant cost in administration and direct financial outlay.
If every domain holder in the uk domain space had have been contacted the proposals would have naturally been thrown out because there is no benefit for the average domain holder to have a .uk introduced.

I can't see how any form of implementation of .uk in the co.uk namespace can accommodate a justification for the massive cost to Nominets consumers.

Nominet are looking for common ground between large portfolio holders and registrars in order to create a money spinning launch of .uk and I think it's now entering the phase where the question is not IF but HOW.

( this is what Nominet said )
What happens after the consultation?

After the consultation closes on 7th January, a summary of the consultation feedback received will be produced by the Secretariat and considered by the Board at their next meeting on 26th February. This will be also published on the Nominet website.

Once the Board has reviewed the feedback, they will consider the best way forward. They may take a view to go down one of several routes to an eventual product, including a direct.uk product with a different set of features, or a different release process. There is also the possibility that we might not go ahead with direct.uk at all.

Depending on the outcome of those assessments, we may look for further stakeholder views. Any Board decisions on this will be included in the official communiqué following the meeting.

 

[Nigel]

Yes I agree. If direct.uk goes ahead I think we'll see a lot of claims against nominet from buyers of .co.uk that are completely unaware of this consultation. There have been a number of reported high sales since 1st October 2012 including, I think, a major six figure purchase - I find it hard to believe all these buyers were aware of the consultation. Yes we have sold some domains since 1st October (and there will continue to be a market in .co.uk whilst direct.uk is being discussed) but its been hard graft - particularly as our company took the decision to inform all potential buyers about this news. It has been apparent that a lot of the potential buyers had no idea this was being proposed and our stand has definitely cost a lot of money in lost sales and reduced prices.

 

[Systreg]

I cannot believe that the data protection act would overide their responsibility to inform registrants of an important change that will directly affect their useage and enjoyment of their domain...

I'm sorry, but I think on this point Nominet are right. The contact details they hold are not intended to be used for anything other than the domains to which they relate, and certainly not for what would effectively be marketing purposes.

@ Anthony, as per an earlier post on this topic, at one of the meetings, Nominet were asked why they hadn't emailed all existing .UK owners about direct.uk, they said it was because of spam and the data protection act, which you say you agree with, as that would be classed as marketing.

Then at that very same Nominet meeting, they were asked how would existing .UK owners be made aware of the direct.uk auctions, and Nominet said they would email all existing registrants about it, that would also be classed as marketing yet they will happily email everyone with auction details, but wont email everyone to let them know about direct.uk, they can't have it both ways.

 

[markb]

Then at that very same Nominet meeting, they were asked how would existing .UK owners be made aware of the direct.uk auctions, and Nominet said they would email all existing registrants about it, that would also be classed as marketing yet they will happily email everyone with auction details, but wont email everyone to let them know about direct.uk, they can't have it both ways.

I would say that emailing customers about upcoming auctions where nominet are going to make a profit, is more like marketing than actually emailing them about with information about the proposal.

Therefore the reason for not emailing them about the proposal is obviously untrue and covering up the real reason which is that they dont want them to know about the proposals until it is too late and they cannot have their say.

 

[Nigel]

Totally agree markb and systreg. It's clear that they didn't email .uk owners about direct.uk because they didn't want to. As simple as that.

 

[anthony]

...Then at that very same Nominet meeting, they were asked how would existing .UK owners be made aware of the direct.uk auctions, and Nominet said they would email all existing registrants about it, that would also be classed as marketing yet they will happily email everyone with auction details, but wont email everyone to let them know about direct.uk, they can't have it both ways.

I can totally see your point, and i agree with the hypocracy of it. All I am saying is that taking a cold look at it, it all comes across to me as unrelated marketing, and that isn't what they hold personal data for, whatever the rights or wrongs of the .uk proposal are!

 

[Nigel]

I can totally see your point, and i agree with the hypocracy of it. All I am saying is that taking a cold look at it, it all comes across to me as unrelated marketing, and that isn't what they hold personal data for, whatever the rights or wrongs of the .uk proposal are!

So you own the domain name insurance.co.uk and spent hundreds of thousands of pounds to acquire it and you feel that it is 'unrelated marketing' to simply inform you that insurance.uk may be introduced shortly and asking you if you have any views on this. Sorry but I can't agree with your views on this. If you owned a domain like that and had paid six figures acquiring it I think you'd have a different view.

 

[Stephen]

Sedo's view of .uk in The Guardian

Another story in The Guardian this time from Sedo.co.uk

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media-network/media-network-blog/2012/dec/21/dave-thomas-nominet-directuk-consultation

So there needs to be a review. Rather than arbitrary making changes Nominet has sought to
enter into a consultation process.
To kick it off Nominet has outlined its thoughts in a proposal to stimulate the debate about achieving
a more trusted country level domain.

I don't think Sedo attended the same meetings as me, this is(was) an attempt by Nominet to introduce .uk without any real debate.

Lets hope now Nominet are changing and that I have been wrong about their motives
and it was after all an attempt by Nominet to get a debate started?

 

[Nigel]

To their credit Sedo did email us asking for our views on direct.uk in a survey - which is more than nominet did. However I would like to have seen them be a little more supportive of all the customers that have purchased .co.uk domains through them over the years. Those customers must have spent millions over the years on a domain they believe to be a 'trusted country level domain'.

 

[GreyWing]

I don't think Sedo attended the same meetings as me, this is(was) an attempt by Nominet to introduce .uk without any real debate.

Dave was at the meeting at Milbank tower on the 21st mate, I briefly managed to chat with him. Sedo must have concerns about Domcollect, it still holds some really nice .co.uk names. Plus it sold to customers who paid them a lot of money, to abandon them and sell duplicate names later on will not go down well.

Yet One and One could make a lot of money selling .uk's, So I imagine it is tricky for them.

 

[martin-s]

I don't know if anyone has DNSSEC on their existing .co.uk domains? I just had a look to see if I could work it out. Costs a huge 50p for two years from January!
http://registrars.nominet.org.uk/re...management/dns/dnssec-signing-service/pricing

 

[GreyWing]

Of course the cost Martin is a red herring from Nominet and nowhere near £20 as you say. If they are saying that more money would make the any .uk more secure, then why are they just given away £6m to the trust instead of making the network more secure....

They can't have it both ways