V2 response - draft (work in progress)

[Edwin]

Added another 9 pages. The end is (hopefully) in sight, within another 2-3 hours.

 

[max_rk]

Good job Edwin.

If direct.uk is shelved, the insecurity about all this situation may not disappear therefore I believe direct.uk should proceed BUT not as described on V2.

The reserve mechanism described in your paper is interesting idea and i hope it gets noticed.

We can continue bashing Nominet but that does not salve the problem. The momentum we have now should be used to sort direct.uk once and for all.


Max Karpis

 

[Retired_Member38]

"3.a Please tell us your views on the methodology we have proposed for the potential
release of second level domains. We would be particularly interested in your
suggestions as to whether this could be done in a fairer, more practical or more cost-effective way."

Why make this process opt-in or time-limited? Why not simply reserve the .uk domain name automatically for all "winning" registrants (after comparing the registration dates, and considering any exceptions) for as long as those winning domain names remain registered?

So if example.uk is won (under the first refusal system) by example.co.uk then example.uk is reserved permanently (at no cost) for the owner of example.uk to buy for as long as example.co.uk is registered.

The owner of example.co.uk can then take up the option of .uk in their own time, according to their own schedule, and can mitigate rebranding and other costs accordingly (and incur no additional costs in the interim).

If the example.co.uk registration were allowed to lapse and the domain name gets deleted, then example.uk would automatically be allocated to the next "winner" (e.g. the .org.uk owner if it's then the oldest continuous registrant).
Under this scenario, the example.uk domain would only become available to register on the open market when there are zero remaining claims on it. This seems the best way to protect existing registrants.

Sorry but this is absolutely ridiculous, and clearly just pushing for a self serving solution.

What you're suggesting would give yourself the right to list 1000's of .uk domains for sale on your own website (i.e. every qualifying domain that you own the .co.uk of). Yet you'd never actually have to pay for any of them until you'd found a buyer for them - all you would need to do is keep renewing the .co.uk versions.

If you couldn't find a buyer, then no big deal - at least it protects anyone competing with you for the customer for a sale of one of your .co.uk's

I've seen some self serving shite posted as far as .uk goes... but this one really takes top prize.

 

[Edwin]

Thanks for your helpful contribution, Monkey.

Perhaps you'd care to read the other 44.5 pages? They might provide some context...

My thought was that, instead of businesses having to line Nominet's pockets to the tune of £25,000,000 a year to hang on to domains that they A) have to have for defensive purposes but B) don't actually know what to do with, they would be able to hold off on the decision indefinitely until it's clear which way the wind blows on .uk takeup (or lack thereof). And it also knocks on the head the elephant in the room of Nominet's profiteering motive.

Oh, and if you're going to quote what I wrote, then include the disclaimer - that's what it's there for!

IMPORTANT: I am opposed to the whole concept of direct.uk for reasons that I believe this document makes fully clear. My answer to this question should not be interpreted as providing any kind of support for direct.uk, either as proposed by Nominet, or with modifications.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Whats in the rest of it (which I have read) isn't particularly relevant to your attempt to push a massively self serving angle on that particular part of it.

Are you seriously going to suggest that its a fair way to launch this domain, where we see domains listed for sale in memorabledomains.co.uk years after launch. You'll be listing them for £500+, yet don't actually own them, and have never contributed a cent towards them. Then when someone finally wants one 10 years after .uk launched you can pocket their cash, pay a single registration fee to take the domain, then pass it on to them.

How can anyone seriously call that anything other than self serving nonsense?

 

[Edwin]

BTW, I'll tell you something. A hurtful remark can be remarkably derailing. Like switching down from 5th gear into reverse when you're driving on the motorway.

Worth a thought?

 

[Brassneck]

Good job Edwin.

If direct.uk is shelved, the insecurity about all this situation may not disappear therefore I believe direct.uk should proceed BUT not as described on V2.

The reserve mechanism described in your paper is interesting idea and i hope it gets noticed.

We can continue bashing Nominet but that does not salve the problem. The momentum we have now should be used to sort direct.uk once and for all.


Max Karpis

Well done to Edwin for doing this and the approach he is taking.

I also agree 100 per cent with Max - the uncertainty helps nobody - the more constructive the comments and also the putting forward of alternatives is key.

Stephen.

 

[Edwin]

Ok, can't do any more tonight. My eyes are killing me.

I think it's pretty much "there" - I'll let it stew for 24 hours, read it through again, and if there's nothing major left to change I'll set it free

(I'm hoping somebody will come up with a simple explanation for the cookie issue I posted in the other thread, which I don't really understand)

 

[Stephen]

Alternative pricing

Whats in the rest of it (which I have read) isn't particularly relevant to your attempt to push a massively self serving angle on that particular part of it.....How can anyone seriously call that anything other than self serving nonsense?

The solution provided is relevant for the vast majority of UK domains (mine included - so I'm talking with self interest before you start on me), it doesn't mean its not working for a lot of other people as well and much fairer than another £25m pa charity give away.

Last time I looked at a UK report on usage, there are over 6 million of the UK domains that are parked or don't resolve or have a holding page of some sort.

All of those domains would benefit from what Edwin is suggesting.

All Nominet new inward costs of any .uk addition would be only a few hundred thousand pounds, depending on how they released .uk. Assuming no address verification cost, which should be at the registrant level not domain level, if the feature is even added, which it shouldn't be.

All pricing should be done on a cost recovery basis, rather than a market rate, as they have a monopoly and as Edwin's report clearly states and common sense and anybody with domain knowledge would know they need and should obtain the .uk for an equivalent .co.uk (or .org.uk on occasion if use oldest date as allocation method).

So my suggested alternative would be to recover that actual extra cost through a total revamp of the domain price structure and go for something like.

First domain UK held £3 p.a.
and other UK domains with the same string £1 p.a.

This would work even of they didn't get a .uk.

Typical example would be if somebody had the full set, they would pay £3 pa for .uk and another £3 pa (£1 x 3) for .co.uk .org.uk .me.uk).
Total price £6 p.a. currently paying £7.50 p.a. on 3.
When all the numbers are crunched all costs at Nominet are covered and you have a lot of happy clients.

This would benefit all sorts of people, be innovative and although I have only done my projections on the back of envelope, I believe the number of domains would increase and the net revenue be increased by more than the new costs for .uk, but only just rather than the £25m p.a. extra under the current Nominet proposal.

The idea would need polish, transitions and fleshing out but its an idea.

Any more pricing model alternatives?

Nominet do even request in the consultation they are provided with ideas on what to do with same string domain pricing.

 

[Stephen]

other alternative pricing model

as the £25 m + pa surplus that would be generated form .uk under the current proposal is too much Nominet have requested they are given ideas about pricing to be fairer.

one scenario would be if they didn't get any feedback Nominet would just leave the pricing per the proposal

a second would be that any suggestion made would have an easy to spot flaw about being too expensive to implement or didn't take account of the co-terminus dates or was too complicated so leave as proposal

a third may be that as cannot give the discount at the registrant level why not do it at the registrar level?


this is an important area that Monkey has raised and pricing ideas are really needed in case .uk is adopted.

 

[Edwin]

Ok, I'm done drafting this (I could literally keep tweaking forever, but at some point you have to draw a line in the sand).

I have deleted the draft from my server. The final version is at:
http://www.mydomainnames.co.uk/v2response2.pdf

Please feel free to spread the word as widely as you like!

 

[Stephen]

Thanks

Thanks again for such a good document and sharing it.

Yes only 10 days to go before the .uk deadline.