300 people pile into a court and arrest a judge!

[jasman]

300 people piled into a court in Birkenhead and arrested a judge!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kav94L-9PiA

But it gets even more mind-blowing than that... this appears to be the latest development in a series of court cases where people have got out of paying council tax. The video below claims magistrates are deliberately conducting trials not under oath and under a commercial law juristiction but without telling people this, yet all the defendent has to do is insist the trial proceeds under common law juristiction and the magistrates dismiss the case! Here is actual footage a court case where this apparantly happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNhsRjsw4Yc

What I find most interesting is the secretive tricks the court officials use to establish the court under a commercial law juristiction without being open about what they are doing. One such method is getting the members of the public to stand up by saying 'stand please' when the magistrate enters. While most people think this is simply courtroom etiquette or a sign of respect to the magistrate, the video claims by standing the public would unknowingly be consenting to the case proceeding as a commercial court rather than a common law court. This would effectively mean they are consenting to the council tax legislation without realising, making defence impossible. Instead, by insisting the case proceed under common law juristiction the video shows the magistrates are stumped and the case is dismissed.

 

[Pred]

very interesting thanks for posting
would have been better if a group had surged and surrounded the security and police and then others carry out citizens arrest
although in all fairness the old bill aren't going to let a mob grab someone. theyre there to arrest people.
what is impressive though is a group of intelligent, rational people can mobilize a small army and go through with it, lol

even if they are mainly middle aged men with too much time on their hands. there are far bigger fish to fry and i hope they go after them! the bankers, the politicians

whats really amusing though is theyre now calling for the chief officers arrest , i hope they try it and film it!

 

[liam]

Great to see people actually stand up for something,
"If you see a copper give them a hug" Genius.

 

[Pred]

i wish it had been done in this case which i'm always quoting
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article564002.ece

if they ever try and do this again to an oap vicar of all people, i'll be first in line to kick the judge up the jacksy all the way down the road
it's to that judge's eternal shame that he sent him down
why diodn't they take his settee or tv instead if they're that mean? a man of the cloth in his 70's sent to a cat. a
friggin disgrace this country

enough people there, police can't do naff all. bring it on
especially with all the cuts. hopefully they will start feeling everyone elses pain too with all their own cutbacks

 

[AssetDomains]

A freind of mine got caught up in all of this when it happened. Its funny apart from a piece in the local rag days later this got no real press coverage whilst demonstrations half way round the world in the middle east get primetime news coverage.
Even the massive demonstration in london this weekend only got about a days coverage in the news.

 

[jasman]

A freind of mine got caught up in all of this when it happened. Its funny apart from a piece in the local rag days later this got no real press coverage whilst demonstrations half way round the world in the middle east get primetime news coverage.
Even the massive demonstration in london this weekend only got about a days coverage in the news.

I'm not surprised. The press in this country censors all kinds of newsworthy things out. The guys who posted the above videos up have posted another saying the government have been getting Youtube to take their videos down too. But they keep posting them back up again! Even in the first video above, when the the BBC reporter arrives, one of the organisers lambasts the reporter for ignoring their requests for coverage in previous trials.

The establishment must be worried that people have sussed out the tricks the court officials have been using and how to overcome them. If this goes viral they will have one hell of a headache!

 

[Pred]

they just pass a bill at 2am in the morning like they normally do
it's as weak as a government as i can remeber in my lifetime
add to that a lot of fucked off, skint people sold down river on many things
but we are a very tolerant law abiding people . however it is a very thin blue line, getting thinner
when economic crisis gets worse, which it will, and people are losing shirts in greater numbers. intelligent people, thats the key, not thugs, we may see a proper revolution, the like of which not seen for hundreds of years
what seemed impossible even a few years ago, is very possible.
the perfect storm. maybe a uprising will do more harm than good i don't know, but we need a mini revolution in this country thats for sure

 

[BREWSTERS]

The time for a revolution was 6-7 years ago. What we're seeing now is a result of the wanton spending from Labour. They were no better that the banks.

There has to be cuts, and of course they won't be popular.

Personally, I like David Cameron - he calls a spade a spade and isn't frightened to do things that might make him unpopular if its for the greater good. Can't say that about Blair or Brown. Between them as PMs and Chancellor, they presided over the virtual bankruptcy of this country. A revolution now would be locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. Why revolt against the ones trying to fix someone else's mess? Doesn't make sense.

 

[tifosi]

The time for a revolution was 6-7 years ago. What we're seeing now is a result of the wanton spending from Labour. They were no better that the banks.

There has to be cuts, and of course they won't be popular.

They were worse than the banks, and remember it was Brown's deregulation of the banks & lack of support for the FSA that lead to the bankers 'kids in a sweet shop' reign for years! The banks were only reverting to type!

I have close relatives in the civil service / public sector and their tales of profligacy & gross negligence are offensive at best!

One may lose their post, another is moving to keep theirs. But I still wholeheartedly support the public sector slash n burn. The wastage and reliance on the economy supported by a public sector service industry is a deck of cards that we're now paying the price for. The far east countries are having a field day laughing at us!

But on topic, yes, fun to watch. I really didn't know about the difference between the commercial law that is meted out in magistrates court and the standard common law. Interesting.

S

 

[Blossom]

Why revolt against the ones trying to fix someone else's mess? Doesn't make sense.

The problem is that most of the time the new leader of the country seems to cause more problems than he/she fixes, which in turn impacts the next government. And people's expectations are always too high.

 

[newguy]

Power to the people. An interesting couple of vids there.

 

[jasman]

Both Labour and the Conservatives are working for the same people and it clearly ain't us.

This belief that Labour ran up a debt and landed the country in it and the Conservatives are now trying to fix it is a myth. If you know how central banks and commercial banks work, you will know that the money they lend out is created out of thin air and then lent at interest. There is no reason why the last government or this government could not create the money out of thin air themselves. They could create an amount of money equal to the government debt tomorrow morning and pay the bloody thing off if they wanted to, after all the debt was created out of thin air in the first place and was not backed by gold or anything else.

Why don't they do this? Because they would rather the millions of people in this country struggle to pay off the government debt for years to come and suffer huge cut backs, than stop their banker friends getting £billions in interest. It's pretty obvious who they are working for.

Look who's paying Blair for services rendered now
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7186975.stm

Look who Osbournis best pals with
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4985718.ece

Photo
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-447223/Oxford-1992-Portrait-classless-Tory.html

 

[Frog]

i wish it had been done in this case which i'm always quoting
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article564002.ece

if they ever try and do this again to an oap vicar of all people, i'll be first in line to kick the judge up the jacksy all the way down the road
it's to that judge's eternal shame that he sent him down
why diodn't they take his settee or tv instead if they're that mean? a man of the cloth in his 70's sent to a cat. a
friggin disgrace this country

enough people there, police can't do naff all. bring it on
especially with all the cuts. hopefully they will start feeling everyone elses pain too with all their own cutbacks

I don't see the relevance of him being an OAP, or a vicar.

What exactly did you want them to do with him? He's repeatedly refusing to pay. And no, taking his tv isn't a real option

If there is no repercussions for non payment of council tax (or just generally ignoring laws you don't like) there would be anarchy. Nobody would bother paying council tax, road tax, or any other type of tax.

 

[Pred]

I don't see the relevance of him being an OAP, or a vicar.

well, let me explain it for you
he's managed to get to a ripe old age doing no wrong in his life, and sending an old man to a main prison (that could have killed him), solves nothing and
would have cost thousands
it also hardens the quiet majoritys resolve. you can't send everyone to prison, plus non-violent people should never be sent to prison for non-payment of a bill. just seize from his account etc, electronically
that taken into consideration and the fact that he's a vicar he would at no cost wanted to have broken a law and risk being branded a criminal but stood up for what he believed was the right thing to do

What exactly did you want them to do with him? He's repeatedly refusing to pay. And no, taking his tv isn't a real option

if you read it you would see he owed about £60. the rest was made up of vast fines etc
they could have took something cheap or a draconian payment from his bank account if necessary
point is there are options. judges are there to make the call. he made the wrong call. this chap, the vicar stood up for a matter of principle and i admire him for it.[/QUOTE]

If there is no repercussions for non payment of council tax (or just generally ignoring laws you don't like) there would be anarchy. Nobody would bother paying council tax, road tax, or any other type of tax.

99% of the time I would agree with you
some 'laws' involving bills and payments are illegal though and need to be challenged. tv licence is a classic.
insane we're still paying for it tbh, made to. any receving equipment in house thats it. you got to pay it. even though theres hundreds of channels now and a provider, eg. sky could easily do it so noone could receve bbc channels, or sets could have taken out. no options. even the blind pay only a reduced amount!
if you had that on the league of gentleman you wouldn't believe it , lol

anyway, we're on about council tax. fact is he's an oap, so on a pension. not some layabout who refuses to pay. (those on max benefits get everything free anyway! grr) rates had gone up 77% in a few years. he stood up for the oaps less fortunate than himself who couldn't articulate themselves as well.
because he gets a vicars pension as well and could see how bad it was for those on just a normal pension.
by going to court a judge had an opportunity to see injustice particularly for the elderley and could have passed a judgement against this particular council ,for the elderly.

sometimes when something is wrong, brave people need to stand up. if it weren't for them , people like the suffragettes, women wouldn't have got the vote etc.
no doubt there were millions of men saying then 'it'll be anarchy if we give in' etc.
they did a lot more than not pay a bill too!

 

[Frog]

well, let me explain it for you
he's managed to get to a ripe old age doing no wrong in his life, and sending an old man to a main prison (that could have killed him), solves nothing
would have cost thousands

It solves something - you'll now pay your council tax as you don't want to join him Yes its expensive to deal with him... but its more expensive to just let people not pay. They need to make examples of a few who step out of line to keep everyone else in order...

if you read it you would see he owed about £60. the rest was made up of vast fines etc
they could have took something cheap or a draconian payment from his bank account if necessary
point is there are options. judges are there to make the call. he made the wrong call. this chap, the vicar stood up for a matter of principle and i admire him for it.

I realise he didn't owe much, but where do you draw the line at it being acceptable to choose not to pay? £100? £200? More?

The old guy was leaving the judge with very little option - he's acting like he's above the law, the judges hand was forced. He had to show him he wasn't.

If he wants to stand up against council tax, thats fine. He just went about it in the wrong way. If you don't agree with laws, you could stand as an MP and get votes from people who agree with you, then try and change the laws you don't agree with - would that not be a better approach than just ignoring them, and racking up a massive amount of public spending dealing with your protest?

by going to court a judge had an opportunity to see injustice particularly for the elderley and could have passed a judgement against this particulat council for the elderly.

Its not up to an individual judge to make up the law as he goes along... he can only enforce what is already in place.

sometimes when something is wrong, brave people need to stand up. if it weren't for them , people like the suffragettes, women wouldn't have got the vote etc.
no doubt there were millions of men saying then it'll be anarchy if we give in etc.
they did a lot more than not pay a bill!

Lol, you're stretching it a bit to compare someone refusing to pay a council tax bill to Emily Pankhurst

I do agree that council tax is too expensive and something should be done about it... individual protests by silly old men with too much time on their hands isn't it though.

 

[Pred]

It solves something - you'll now pay your council tax as you don't want to join him Yes its expensive to deal with him... but its more expensive to just let people not pay. They need to make examples of a few who step out of line to keep everyone else in order...

I realise he didn't owe much, but where do you draw the line at it being acceptable to choose not to pay? £100? £200? More?

clearly there isn't a set amount. he witheld what he felt was an unreasonable rise. all authorities have different amounts and manage/mismanage spending and rises

The old guy was leaving the judge with very little option - he's acting like he's above the law, the judges hand was forced. He had to show him he wasn't.

as a citizen and human being he has the right to protest peacefully to something he feels is unjust. it's everyone's right. you hope you get someone who can see the the injustice. this time he didn't. maybe the next person in his position, not just anyone who doesn't fancy paying their council tax, get's someone more balanced

If he wants to stand up against council tax, thats fine. He just went about it in the wrong way. If you don't agree with laws, you could stand as an MP and get votes from people who agree with you, then try and change the laws you don't agree with - would that not be a better approach than just ignoring them, and racking up a massive amount of public spending dealing with your protest?

don't be so naive.
do you have any idea the millions people have had in backing etc. and got nowhere? the energy and time needed
the green party are a household name in this country and been around 30 years and only now got their first mp
there is a monopoly of 3 main parties if you hadn't noticed
it would be hoped future mps and current mps would take up stories of injustices like this and try and change the system

Its not up to an individual judge to make up the law as he goes along... he can only enforce what is already in place.

judges get sentencing guidelines. its why some judges let drugdealers off and others send them away
they have options. the particular scumbag who sent the vicar down clearly used the full force of the law, when other orptions would have been on table.
actually it's the sort of thing that if it kept happening i believe we would see some solidarity and thats when real change would occur. if hundreds of thousands stood together and didn't pay they couldn't actually do anything. fact. people wouldn't at this stage and i don't feel there is a need for that as the coucil tax needs paying by and large but in that authority where rates went up by almost 80% in a few years, there can be no excuse for that and the mis managers of the money in the council need to be called to book.

Lol, you're stretching it a bit to compare someone refusing to pay a council tax bill to Emily Pankhurst

you were the one talking about anarchy, so you're the one reaching ,for a vicar not paying a small part of his bill and needing to be sent to a cat a prison ffs lol. and if they didnt send him to prison there would be anarchy and noone would pay? gimme a break
if you know your history you will know the suffragettes even blew up buildings in their quest, didn't cause 'anarchy' did it?

I do agree that council tax is too expensive and something should be done about it... individual protests by silly old men with too much time on their hands isn't it though.

i don't think you should be so insulting towards a man that is clearly a far bigger man than you will ever be, with principles.

you clearly don't get it Frog, and I can't spell it out clearer for you

 

[Frog]

You are saying there are other options... what are they exactly?

He's made it perfectly clear he's not going to comply. Do you think he's going to do community service or something if they gave him that instead? All another option is going to do is delay the inevitable, and run up the bill even higher.

Everyone has a right to protest - that doesn't extend to not complying with laws you don't like. He could have paid and protested publicly all he wanted.