Acorn View on .uk Direction

[Stephen]

Rather than wait for June and find out what Nominet are going to propose for the .uk tld, I thought I would try and see at Acorn what the view is on the big picture for the .uk future.

Trying to be proactive than reactive and hope to provide Nominet with some feedback before they form their new .uk proposal.

There is a thread .uk shelved but we know Nominet's intention is to bring it off the shelf later. This does contain some observations that you may find useful.

One way to move forward to find out what the varied memers at Acorn think the direction should be for .uk and I have condensed it to 3 possible outcomes for .uk.

The 100% pairing of .co.uk and .uk is the .uk is provided free (possible as no security added to it) and you cannot sell one without the other, so the only benefit is the owner can choose to use either the .co.uk or the .uk not both at the same time. When they expire both expire, when they are acquired both are acquired.

The mixed bag of effective different ownership of .co.uk and .uk solution will still encounter lots of the issues of cyber squatting, phising, email problems etc. identified in the previous consultation but the number would be far less (than the original proposal) as the .co.uk registrants that undertand domains and are informed about it will often take up there right for .uk but we don't know what auction phases there would be and how it will work out for the rights of .ltd.uk, .org.uk and .me.uk owners.

No .uk ever speaks for itslef but there maybe other new 3rd level domains introduced at a later date for example .birmingham.uk, .music.uk etc.

Which do you think is better for the UK namespace with all the many, many factors you are aware of or sometimes maybe consider the position fresh without the baggage of the previous .uk consultation:

1. 100% pairing of .co.uk and .uk ownership
2. Mixed bag of .co.uk and .uk ownership with release changes to original proposal which favour current UK registrants more
3. No .uk ever

not what you want
not what you think is going to happen
not what you think Nominet is going to do

Simply what would be best for the UK namespace?

Please provide your views and any observations. Thankyou.

 

[monaghan]

direct.uk seems to restrictive to me, you effectively close down the .uk namespace, once the names are gone, that's it move along to a new TLD loosing the .UK brand, Nominet become simple caretakers and registrars have nothing new to sell.

Replacing .co.uk with .uk seems pointless as does pairing the 2, again reducing Nominet to caretakers and leaving registrars with nothing new.

New second levels genre and/or location based seems to be the obvious way to go, something along the lines of ford.car.uk, sweetshop.portsmouth.uk and so on. A few simple controls over locations (must have office and so on) would stop a lot of the cybersquatting issues which would give the "security" suggested by the original direct.uk suggestions. This opens up the domain space, keeps the ".UK brand" visible and allows for desired keywords in multiple "domains" with clear "category" reducing to less consumer confusion. Most importantly this allows for the same keyword to be sold multiple times so increasing revenue stream for registrars and Nominet. Obviously, not perfect, there needs to be controls / safeguards.

 

[Edwin]

There is a thread .uk shelved but we know Nominet's intention is to bring it off the shelf later. This does contain some observations that you may find useful.

If the hope is to engage Nominet in constructive dialogue, then everything they say must be taken in good faith as a starting point for discussion. In other words: "hit the reset button".

As such, it's crucial to note that they have not stated that they WILL introduce .uk, but only that they MAY do so (in revised form). This is indicated in no less than 3 separate places in the official statement they issued at the end of the consultation round http://www.nominet.org.uk/news/latest/update-directuk

As a result, we are going to explore whether it is possible to present a revised proposal that meets the principles of increasing trust and security and maintaining the relevance of the .uk proposition in a changing landscape.

...

The Board plans to review progress at their June meeting, where they would decide whether there is an alternative option that addresses the concerns raised in the consultation. This would be subject to further consultation prior to any final decision being made.

Should the new shorter .uk suffix be introduced, Nominet has committed to continuing to support the existing third level domains (e.g .co.uk).

That may seem like a small difference, but it's a crucial one if you want your comments to be taken seriously by Nominet.

 

[websaway]

Rather than wait for June and find out what Nominet are going to propose for the .uk tld, I thought I would try and see at Acorn what the view is on the big picture for the .uk future.

Trying to be proactive than reactive and hope to provide Nominet with some feedback before they form their new .uk proposal.

There is a thread .uk shelved but we know Nominet's intention is to bring it off the shelf later. This does contain some observations that you may find useful.

One way to move forward to find out what the varied memers at Acorn think the direction should be for .uk and I have condensed it to 3 possible outcomes for .uk.

The 100% pairing of .co.uk and .uk is the .uk is provided free (possible as no security added to it) and you cannot sell one without the other, so the only benefit is the owner can choose to use either the .co.uk or the .uk not both at the same time. When they expire both expire, when they are acquired both are acquired.

The mixed bag of effective different ownership of .co.uk and .uk solution will still encounter lots of the issues of cyber squatting, phising, email problems etc. identified in the previous consultation but the number would be far less (than the original proposal) as the .co.uk registrants that undertand domains and are informed about it will often take up there right for .uk but we don't know what auction phases there would be and how it will work out for the rights of .ltd.uk, .org.uk and .me.uk owners.

No .uk ever speaks for itslef but there maybe other new 3rd level domains introduced at a later date for example .birmingham.uk, .music.uk etc.

Which do you think is better for the UK namespace with all the many, many factors you are aware of or sometimes maybe consider the position fresh without the baggage of the previous .uk consultation:

1. 100% pairing of .co.uk and .uk ownership
2. Mixed bag of .co.uk and .uk ownership with release changes to original proposal which favour current UK registrants more
3. No .uk ever

not what you want
not what you think is going to happen
not what you think Nominet is going to do

Simply what would be best for the UK namespace?

Please provide your views and any observations. Thankyou.

Don't want to be a thorn in your side but you are carrying out a consultation.
And your asking loaded questions that will often be clouded by emotion and guesswork, nobody knows what Nominet will do, they most likely don't know themselves yet. You must not overlook the fact they are a big organisation and have had a severe knock back, their credibility is in question and they are accountable for their actions. Let Nominet carry out the consultation if they feel they can go that far and then lobby members for their opinions if necessary.

 

[Edwin]

Don't want to be a thorn in your side but you are carrying out a consultation.
And your asking loaded questions that will often be clouded by emotion and guesswork, nobody knows what Nominet will do, they most likely don't know themselves yet. You must not overlook the fact they are a big organisation and have had a severe knock back, their credibility is in question and they are accountable for their actions. Let Nominet carry out the consultation if they feel they can go that far and then lobby members for their opinions if necessary.

Agreed. That's why I said it's so important to "hit the reset button" (mentally) at this point.

Anything else is just tilting at windmills.

 

[foz]

Status quo on extensions and few board members tossed overboard in an EGM would be my ideal wish at this point.

 

[Stephen]

Don't want to be a thorn in your side but you are carrying out a consultation

Yes I am, until Nominets .uk effort it was not a dirty word.

My objective is to go back to Nominet before June with some feeling of the big picture views of the domaining community that they may want to take account before Nominet launch their .uk proposal mark II.

And your asking loaded questions that will often be clouded by emotion and guesswork, ..

I don't see the question as loaded as I have laid out the big picture question and given the only 3 alternatives I can think of and asked for all comments about those 3 options.
It is the starting point Nominet should have started with in my opinion.

... nobody knows what Nominet will do, they most likely don't know themselves yet. You must not overlook the fact they are a big organisation and have had a severe knock back, their credibility is in question and they are accountable for their actions

I agree I dont know what Nominet will do but what is wrong with advising them what the domaining community would like them to do.

It has already been stated, Nominet themselves don't really know at the momment what they are actually going to present in June.

Let Nominet carry out the consultation if they feel they can go that far and then lobby members for their opinions if necessary.

Because you will never know if they listen until it is too late, if it is in their next proposal it might just go through, so try to get views to Nominet now in the hope of modifiying the direction of .uk.

Lets be proactive not just wait for Nominet to direct the situation.

First thing is to gather the range and volume of opinions on what should be the course of action for .uk.

It may be at the AGM or an EGM but havent seen that notice through yet.

 

[Edwin]

My objective is to go back to Nominet before June with some feeling of the big picture views of the domaining community that they may want to take account before Nominet launch their .uk proposal mark II.

I believe that will do more harm than good (it gives "legitimacy" to a specific viewpoint, which misrepresents the situation as the reality is a wide range of views - i.e. there is no such thing as "A big picture view" but rather a myriad of different opinions - there is no "domaining community" waiting in the wings to speak with one voice, and there never has been) and if that's your intent then please count me out. In other words, only I speak for me.

 

[Stephen]

VIEWS (plural)

I believe that will do more harm than good (it gives "legitimacy" to a specific viewpoint, which misrepresents the situation as the reality is a wide range of views - i.e. there is no such thing as "A big picture view" but rather a myriad of different opinions - there is no "domaining community" waiting in the wings to speak with one voice, and there never has been) and if that's your intent then please count me out. In other words, only I speak for me.

Nobody knows until the comments are made whether there is ONE widely held view or a range of views or one of the outcomes is not supported at all.

The point is it is VIEWS (plural).

I'm simply trying to get views on what Nominet should consider doing before it makes their second .uk proposal.

 

[Edwin]

I'm simply trying to get views on what Nominet should consider doing before it makes their second .uk proposal.

Ok, then my official view is that Nominet should be left alone to see if it can come up with that proposal or not (it may well not) based on the gigantic stack of information it's already collected in response to the consultation. Then in June we will know whether there is action needed or not (Nominet have promised a second consultation IF there's a second proposal).

 

[websaway]

Nobody knows until the comments are made whether there is ONE widely held view or a range of views or one of the outcomes is not supported at all.

The point is it is VIEWS (plural).

I'm simply trying to get views on what Nominet should consider doing before it makes their second .uk proposal.

Stephen, how can anyone form an opinion when they don't even know what nominet might propose ?
You can only go on what you know and their original proposals have been soundly rejected.
The only thing you can tell nominet at this moment in time is that co.uk owners want no additional costs and co.uk owners don't want any competition to the co.uk extension in the uk namespace.
I really can't appreciate what you are trying to achieve, whatever our views are the ball is back in Nominets court, leave it there.

 

[Stephen]

try to influence before or just wait?

Stephen, how can anyone form an opinion when they don't even know what nominet might propose ?
You can only go on what you know and their original proposals have been soundly rejected.
The only thing you can tell nominet at this moment in time is that co.uk owners want no additional costs and co.uk owners don't want any competition to the co.uk extension in the uk namespace.
I really can't appreciate what you are trying to achieve, whatever our views are the ball is back in Nominets court, leave it there.

We can all have views of what we believe should happen about .uk and why we believe or own ideas are the best way forward for the UK namespace.

If Nominet would have had the views of the domainers at Acorn whether .uk should be .uk is a new extension and have security bundled before they went to the consultation stage maybe we would not have gone through .uk proposal number 1.

I'm just asking for big picture views from Acorn members, a question Nominet have never asked, to see if it worth feeding them back to Nominet before they make their next plan for .uk.

Some of those big picture views may have been included in individual responses to the .uk consultation but many would not have been as their was enough to comment on about the short comings of the proposal as it was plus there was not a slot in the form to really express that opinion.

 

[Nigel]

I too am not sure about the benefits of putting together a consultation on behalf of the domaining community. For my part, I believe the 6 members of the Nominet board should have shelved direct.uk completely when they met last week.

The consultation exercise was deeply flawed - entirely undemocratic - leaving out existing registrants and hoping they had enough friendly stakeholders/registrars on board to get the required result.

The consultation document was, in my view, a disgrace and worded to get answers in the affirmative, without first asking the one important question - are you happy with the current system operated by Nominet i.e. extensions at the third level with each sector clearly defined by .co.uk, .org.uk, .me.uk, .ac.uk etc?

If they couldn't get the required result with such a loaded, biased consultation then the proposals should be dropped - full stop. I'd also like to see changes at the top - very soon.

 

[Edwin]

I'm just asking for big picture views from Acorn members, a question Nominet have never asked, to see if it worth feeding them back to Nominet before they make their next plan for .uk.

Surely it's up to each member to determine for themselves if their own view is "worth" feeding back to Nominet? Nobody's looking for a spokesperson.

As I said earlier, there is no consensus on Acorn. That much has long been obvious. So seeking to find "a view" to feed back to Nominet on behalf of Acorn means a deliberate picking-and-choosing along the way of whose views you bring into that consensus, and whose you discard because they don't "fit". For example, you've already indicated on many occasions that you don't like my alternative proposal for a .uk release mechanism - yet Nominet are already in receipt of it (i.e. it's one valid view).

I don't believe anyone our "side" of the table is in the position of supplying an "aggregate" view, nor will any amount of discussion lead to one.

Not to mention that they may well give up on the whole exercise, which as I mentioned before is a harder decision to take if they're being fed even more "well how about this" "well how about that" during the course of their follow-up process.

 

[Stephen]

Lets wait!

Well as I respect the views of Edwin, Websaway, Nigel, Foz who have all helped enormously get us to the point with .uk we are at, I will change my objective.

I thought it would be useful to try to influence Nominet about .uk now before it formed its version 2 plan, but clearly the thrust of the postings on this thread is too leave Nominet to make their plan with the information they have gathered from the .uk consultation and if it is not a good proposal then fight it then.

 

[viceroy]

I think that's a good idea, Nominet should first show that there is a need for direct.uk before they launch a consultation which leads to a proposal that members can vote on. Hopefully they've figured out by this stage how to introduce new policy... Nominet arbitrarily having 'consultations' every now and again just causes more instability. I'm going to stick with 'we don't need direct.uk'. They could've been more productive if they'd used this period to do some research on the market for direct.uk and also would've created less of a headache for themselves.

 

[Bailey]

There does seem to be a wish to keep an open-wound going, By sticking pins into it.

I agree this Subject, should be given a break. When and If he comes back as a Nominet proposal then we can revisit both in a historical and working document format

In the mean-time I don't think it's on many of our "Labour-of-Love" agendas

 

[scottb]

Perhaps a poll can be set up on the forum.

But I am sure members of Nominet already know the majority feeling among .co.uk registrants. They don't want it, at least without grandfather rights, as it completely devalues their existing names.

My point of view is that complete pairing is the only sensible option if it is introduced.

The main reason is that direct.uk will be a direct replacement for .co.uk as the MAINSTREAM UK domain.
To introduce direct.uk as competition would be to screw over 93% of their existing customers, and cause a security nightmare with all the cross-email traffic.

.co like .com originally mean 'commercial', but in reality it is the commonplace domain used for ALL types of sites.. blogs, personal, email, arts, info etc.

This is why the minority rights of those with org.uk or ac.uk names come after the vast majority of .co.uk domain owners - It isn't direct competition for them.

I also don't see a problem with future shortage when there are going to be thousands more TLD's on the way. Google could even give them away for free.

It seems like a good opportunity to 'upgrade' the namespace for the VAST MAJORITY of nominet users by pairing .co.uk with direct.uk, which would allow site owners to rebrand in their own time.

 

[aZooZa]

I personally think there should be 'post moratorium' on this issue now, as it's all getting somewhat jaded and repetitive. I'd suggest that Nominet already know what their options are moving forward, and how much/little resistance they might or might not get for anything brought off the shelf and dusted down later on.

 

[willbon]

When the short domains were sold off recently where there any kept aside for possible future use as subdomains? ... i.e. allowing another .xx.uk

If not, then Nominet really has painted itself into a corner and the only way to go would be to not do anything and stay as it is... or simply swap the .co.uk for .uk.

I don't think anything else would work.

Re security.... there are products out there that will suffice if you want them.

Re price.... I get the feeling that one of the big reasons this plan was hatched in the first place was for revenue rather than for the 'greater good', so any price increase will be seen as that.