Cheating collation

[RobM]

Having checked through the data this year there is clear patterns of multitagging and a certain 'group' of people abusing the system. This is ignoring the confirmed 'cheat' that some people are using quite openly at certain times.
I am gathering information together to present to nominet as I feel it is getting out of hand and adversely affecting myself and the majority of the catchers who adhere to nominet's rules.
Therefore if you have any evidence that can also be included please email it to me at robert at emailmalta dot com.
I have had success with a cheating tag in the past with nominet so hopefully they will start to look at the issues.

I don't want to turn this thread into a flamefest so I will not be responding any more in this thread. If you feel you have something nominet can work with please email me above.

Thanks.

 

[timter51]

 

[Sean]

They're even bidding up their own auctions now so maybe it's time to start a public debate and start naming and shaming?

 

[RobM]

At DL? Well nominet have a list of the tags that seem to be cheating and they said they're looking over their transactions and interactions with each other. Whether they will find or do anything is another matter. To get the last tag penalised I had to produce logfiles to the second, statistics, and about 20 emails and then they didn't seem to do much except 'stop' them doing whatever they had been doing with an admission that the tag *was* cheating, they couldn't tell me in what way, and they couldn't tell me what steps had been taken. At least they phoned me to tell me that. We'll see if greed gets the better of common sense in the next couple of premium drops

 

[dee]

Good on you Rob. I thought the whole point was that its an even playing field. Can people pretty much guarantee to get decent drops then ?

 

[armistice]

Are we talking pooling of resources or multiple tags for one entity?
Also whats the confirmed cheat relate to?

 

[RobM]

Both. One is collusion - the other is exploitation of the system. I know (and nominet do apparently) for a fact that the latter is going on but cannot always be used it seems. The former is harder to prove but it seems certain tags may pool their allocation and rotate their quotas possibly for a guaranteed shared percentage of sales (unknown). The previous cheat seemed to be an exploit of the 'random' drop time but I'll never know if that was the case - statistics proved it and forced nominet to act. I do know there are now a LOT of tags that have no presence, have never advertised or sold openly in the namespace, have no history of questions/answers, yet miraculously 'appeared' seemingly with a perfect knowledge of best server locations and fast catching software. Looking at their catches, many wait a while, then transfer to a certain few tags. If these are sales they are not documented anywhere on the net. All this may be innocent and just coincidences but it is clear over the past few months that there is a lot of backstabbing, exploitation, and accusations going on. Hopefully nominet will get to the bottom of it once and for all - I wouldn't hold my breath though. All nominet need to do is remove the anticollusion clause. Might as well let it be an *open* free for all instead of hampering people who attempt to abide by the rules.

 

[Sean]

Are we talking pooling of resources or multiple tags for one entity?
Also whats the confirmed cheat relate to?

We're talking many levels including outright cheating i.e. people using TAG's that are nothing more than fronts for a member of this forum, someone who ironically likes to ring Nominet and report others that he believes are cheating!

There is no cheat, it's a function of the process and in no way against Nominet's T&C. I've spoken to a member of Nominet's tech staff who thinks the person that originally found it is very smart rather than a cheat. The problem is that someone sold their script and the cheat that isn't a cheat to people who are greedy and want to catch everything and that means getting hold of as many TAG's as you can.

Just to add, some TAG holders may or may not know that they're party to something much bigger. The people that control things are greedy and paranoid so keep things very close to their chests. I worked with one of them for around 3 months and I've only recently found out how devious and underhanded they are.

 

[boxerdog]

Why all the secrecy and faffing around? Why do people not just name names and explain exactly what they think is going on?

 

[RobM]

If it was a 'function in the process' don't you think nominet might have mentioned it as part of their usage? It doesn't matter at this stage but you can dress an exploit up however you want - if nominet do not provide that in their documentation for everyone to use that's exactly what it is.. an exploit. Obviously if it only uses DAC polling within the quota, one tag, and the EPP commands and quotas as listed then that is different. That is how nominet want the system to be used. Personally I wish they'd stuck with the automaton - it always seemed stupid to say they want a 'fair' system and then basically cut out most people with slow scripts or servers anyway. The automaton was a lot fairer. It didn't stop multitagging but it did stop flaws in the registration software.
However I think the main issue is multitagging.

 

[Sean]

Why do people not just name names and explain exactly what they think is going on?

Speaking for myself, the culprits would deny all knowledge and if challenged for proof I would have to break the confidence of a number of other people and that wouldn't be fair. Myself and Rob disagree on whether there's a cheat but we can agree that Nominet aren't interested in investigating real cheating, even when presented with irrefutable evidence. The thing I've taken away from my discussions with them is if you can't beat them, join them.

 

[Sean]

If it was a 'function in the process' don't you think nominet might have mentioned it as part of their usage? It doesn't matter at this stage but you can dress an exploit up however you want - if nominet do not provide that in their documentation for everyone to use that's exactly what it is.. an exploit. Obviously if it only uses DAC polling within the quota, one tag, and the EPP commands and quotas as listed then that is different. That is how nominet want the system to be used. Personally I wish they'd stuck with the automaton - it always seemed stupid to say they want a 'fair' system and then basically cut out most people with slow scripts or servers anyway. The automaton was a lot fairer. It didn't stop multitagging but it did stop flaws in the registration software.
However I think the main issue is multitagging.

My script runs from 1am until midnight, I use a maximum of 432,000 DAC requests, my quota of delayed DAC and 1000 EPP create requests. My script legally "exploits" a part of Nominet's process and I'd be more than happy to ring Nominet and discuss it wth them.

 

[RobM]

Well if it uses their quotas as they've set out doesn't sound like an exploit/cheat to me. However my main concern is groups of tags that appear to be used interchangeably by the same few people. Basically anything that is *against* the rules. Obviously more quota or quota combination is collusion and outside of their acceptable use. They can check this to a certain extent.. the question is whether they will. They've really made a rod for their own back considering in other extensions the more registrars you buy, the more epp connections you have, and money = success. Considering how money orientated nominet are I'm surprised they don't just abolish their collusion policy.

 

[Sean]

Well if it uses their quotas as they've set out doesn't sound like an exploit/cheat to me. However my main concern is groups of tags that appear to be used interchangeably by the same few people. Basically anything that is *against* the rules. Obviously more quota or quota combination is collusion and outside of their acceptable use. They can check this to a certain extent.. the question is whether they will. They've really made a rod for their own back considering in other extensions the more registrars you buy, the more epp connections you have, and money = success. Considering how money orientated nominet are I'm surprised they don't just abolish their collusion policy.

I whole heartedly agree but I've given this a lot of thought and I can think of lots of solutions but none of them are cheat proof. The fact is that some people don't like to share, they want everything for themselves.

 

[timter51]

Well if it uses their quotas as they've set out doesn't sound like an exploit/cheat to me. .

If we're all talking about the same "exploit" then it certainly isn't a "cheat", anyone with an ounce of coding skill willing to spend timing putting their own script together can work it out, using their quotas as allowed by Nominet. Maybe one day Nominet will upgrade their network and wipe out this little quirk for good, which I thought they had done until recently. Until then, no one is going to sit there and not take advantage of it out of some moral high ground stance... we're all in this game for the same reasons.

 

[keys]

I have faired quite well from drop catching, but long ago when the key weapon was a daily quota of 1000 registration requests. Now, I merely observe from the sidelines.

As far back as I can remember, the system has been exploited/ abused by catchers willing to use any means possible to secure valuable drops.

I came across a quote which seems apt, "laws without enforced consequences are merely suggestions"

I have seen no evidence that Nominet takes action against errant catchers, or that they even care who gets what.

Speed limit enforcement on UK roads seems much the same. Fortunately, most drivers follow the advice most of the time.

Airing frustrations in this thread with like minded fair players may make you feel better, but it will not change anything.

 

[RobM]

Yes that's why I made the distinction between using the services nominet provide in your own way or gaining an advantage using other methods such as knowing drop order, figuring out other methods of getting data not involving dac/epp etc.

 

[PoshTiger]

Hey Sean - drop me a PM, I think we should talk..

 

[philliph]

Spotting this happening loads at the moment.. it's as though the people doing it aren't even trying to hide it anymore.

 

[davedevelopment]

I'm pretty oblivious to everything people are alluding to in this thread, I think I may need to start spending a bit more time keeping an eye on things. Whatever they're up to, I appreciate you trying to stop them @RobM