Copying Tables and Data

[addz123]

What's the legal implications or status of copying tables on another site assuming they don't own the data?

For example, the complete university guide has quite a lot of tables it would be nice to just copy, but most of their data (that I'm looking at) is all from HESA, who have also allowed me to use their data online.

I'm not exactly sure it's plagiarism since it's just a table of stats, which they don't own. Having said that, obviously doesn't seem right to be able to just copy and paste someone else's research/tables that they've put considerable time into producing.

I don't think it's anywhere near the same as image rights, but at the same time think it;s murky ground.

Llots of sites publish the Times or Milkround top 100 graduate recruiters.

What's people's opinions on this?

 

[woopwoop]

My advice is be very careful.

I have had issues with this (on both sides) in the past.
It can be argued that it is database infringement. Even though it seems the data isn't owned, the arrangement of data is the property of the site owner.

The best bet would be for you to contact them and ask for it.

(disclaimer: I also have sites with university addresses, student union details and also feeds... don't really want to share it because it took me forever and I didn't make any real money off those sites yet.

The issue I had with database infringement was with unrelated sites:
(1) where I thought that the data was publicly available so why would they mind me taking it and rejigging it... they did mind, I learned about database infringement and I lost ££££ in legal (great learning experience)
(2) where my site's data was scraped and taken and I had the hassle of going after them.

We all take risks and so I don't blame you for wanting to scrape and rejig the data, my advice is to just be careful and be aware of the risks.)

 

[addz123]

Interesting.

Like I said, they don't own the data, so I wonder if I could just copy and pase their data into excel, then re-arrange and reformat into my own design. That way I'm not actually copying their table, I just used it to speed up the data collection aspect.

 

[woopwoop]

Yep it makes sense what you are saying but from a legal point of view, it could be considered database infringement depending on the method used to access/replicate the data.

Being older I think that you can probably get away with it if you are careful about not copying over typos for example, but also being older I think that if HESA is allowing you to use the data, then why not ask nicely and they might give you a copy of the spreadsheet if you credit them on your site. The data may be more accurate and you have written permission in an email from them - zero risk.

The added risk of getting the data from a third party site is that you don't know their source of the data and maybe they did something sketchy to source it. All it takes is one entry in the database to include something unique that ties the data to it's source and if the source didn't grant permission then you could be in hot water.

When I got the information for around 130 universities/colleges, I manually went to each site and even collected SU rss feeds etc. I felt safer after my problems years ago and felt like I could make a better site with the feeds. Although I've done very little so far.

Good luck.

 

[addz123]

Just thought I'd come back to this thread.

I did some research and found that research data and tables, where significant investment has been made to obtain/publish the data, falls under literary works of copyright.

In other words, copying large parts or entire data tables (or even using it as part of research) does violate copyright unless express permission has been granted.

Lots of useful info here; http://ukdataservice.ac.uk/manage-data/copyright/introduction.aspx

 

[Skinner]

The site you are referring to will have licensed or purchased the table data either way, so regardless of who owns the data and who is using it, there will be a license agreement somewhere.

Hesa (assuming higher ed) do have lotta public data http://www.hesa.ac.uk/content/view/1897/706/ so mayne what you need is there and you just have to crunch it ?

I did notice http://www.hesa.ac.uk/content/view/35/134/ which indicated you may have to pay for extra stuff.

 

[addz123]

The site you are referring to will have licensed or purchased the table data either way, so regardless of who owns the data and who is using it, there will be a license agreement somewhere.

Hesa (assuming higher ed) do have lotta public data http://www.hesa.ac.uk/content/view/1897/706/ so mayne what you need is there and you just have to crunch it ?

I did notice http://www.hesa.ac.uk/content/view/35/134/ which indicated you may have to pay for extra stuff.

Yep I've already been in touch and ordered some premium data.

Can't wait to start publishing my own data and using copyright to my advantage.

 

[retired_member33]

I was in need of some data and I hired a student to find it for me, I pay him about 15 Euro an hour and told him to take as long as he needs (within limits, we have been working together for a while so he knows what I mean) to get the right data.

One (important) thing we agreed on was that he was the source of the data if anyone would ask.

Putting that into a Uk perspective... How about finding a student online who can search/research/crunch the data for you? Might be cheaper then getting it from Hesa?

 

[addz123]

Thanks but I'm talking about university rankings tables, it's not something a student can research uniquely. Also if he uses copyright data in his research and crunching then that can still be a violation.

I'm pretty confused as I emailed the guardian and they said they don't have copyright ownership of the Guardian university rankings tables

From their site: "The tables were compiled by independent consultancy firm Intelligent Metrix. It's based originally on information collected by Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) and the National Student Survey, published by Higher Education Funding Council for England (Hefce)."


If the results were published by HEFCE, then they state on their copyright page:

"Should you wish to re-use information which is owned by HEFCE then you may be able to do so in accordance with the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulations 2005. "

I think it's a pretty unclear situation when you have a collection of data that probably has a shared copyright among 4 sources. Either way I'm trying to get in touch with all sources lol.