Corona please read very important

[EdwinEdwin is verified member.]

Boris has test positive, mustn't have been washing his hands

And in a related development, Dominic Cummings was spotted running - and I do mean running - out of Number 10, and scuttling off somewhere.

You would have thought he should have been self-isolating if he'd been with a proven-infected Boris Johnson...
https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1243520576007872513

Oh, and Matt Hancock also has it.

Other than that, it's been a quiet Friday so far.

 

[boxfish]

Oh, and Matt Hancock also has it.

CMO Chris Whitty has just announced on twitter he has symptoms and is also isolating.

Couldn't make it up!!

 

[deedee is verified member.]

Irrelevant to all the conspiracy theories potential and numbers of people who may have actually died of something else, surely.... no one can deny the facts coming out of italy / spain of ICU's overwhelmed with people drowning in their own fluid and Doctors having to decide who to save and let die ? Even today the figures have gone up again there and we're a few weeks behind that curve. FFS just listen to what were being told. If we all come out of it able to say " I told you so" then great !

 

[newguy]

Irrelevant to all the conspiracy theories potential and numbers of people who may have actually died of something else, surely.... no one can deny the facts coming out of italy / spain of ICU's overwhelmed with people drowning in their own fluid and Doctors having to decide who to save and let die ? Even today the figures have gone up again there and we're a few weeks behind that curve. FFS just listen to what were being told. If we all come out of it able to say " I told you so" then great !

Yes, it's taking a horrendous toll. I think it's a combination of the time it took to bring in social distancing measures and close down businesses, and also so many people living in inter-generational households. Hopefully our numbers won't reach those levels due to the measures brought in, but it's a big unknown. God only knows what the numbers in the US will look like as time goes by.

There is a horrendously inescapable feeling to all of this, in that when we are told to get back to normal and these measures are lifted to a degree, the numbers will rise once more. I get that the hospitals will better be able to cope due to the current approach, but still. It's important that we all do all that we can to shield the more vulnerable members of our families for the foreseeable. Maybe 18 months down the line, this will pass and all seem like a bad dream.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Why does everything have to automatically be bad, to fit your ideology?

On TikTok and similar platforms, the film has a lot of hype at the moment, being used in memes and that sort of 'thing'.. because of well the situation.

I would say it's just catering to an audience that is interested in a film that is kind of based on what's happening right now. Someone most probably just used the judgement call that lots of people are talking about the film, so nows a good time to show it.

You're just outside of the cultural loop that is happening around the film in certain areas of society and automatically assume it's part of the world domination conspiracy.

Is it insensitive if that's what people want to watch?

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertain...ic-film-contagion/ar-BB11NQk6?ocid=spartanntp

Still crazy....

 

[BREWSTERS]

Seems quite standard for people complaining about everything. A Britains got talent episode had nearly 200 Ofcom complaints recently if I remember correctly. Always gone to be a small handful of complaints.

Whatever

 

[AssetDomains]

Agreed, that would. We won't know those figures for a long time though. And the number would need to be very big to show an anomaly considering approx 1120 people over the age of 70 die every day in the UK (obviously not all pneumonia, and 44% of people who get pneumonia each year in the UK are under 70yo.
Does anyone have any figures for deaths by age in UK for CV yet?

Not the UK but death by age in cases worldwide so far
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/​

No Edwin, I know you'd rather everyone believed what you do, and your views are based as much on belief if not more, than mine.

This is rational discussion. The measures being imposed far far far outweigh the threat given what we KNOW.

We KNOW that the same is true of the flu, and we know that kills 10,000s per year, so why no restrictions or hysteria surrounding that?

Wrong we do take measures against the flu. we develop and distrabute semi effective vaccines against flu annually this has reduced death numbers drastically in the last few years.
lets look at Italy as they have some trusted numbers Average flu deaths pair year are 17'000 higher than the UK because of there more elderly population.
In the last 6 weeks over 9000 Have died of covid-19 in Italy roughly 6 months flu in six weeks. but in reality as the numbers are climbing exponentially a huge proportion of theses deaths over 50% have happened in the last week. So one quarter of the Annual Flu deaths recorded in week hope these numbers ARE clear and make you realise the scale of what is happening.
I'm sure you are going to well how many would have died of flu anyway just in case lets do the numbers 17'000 dived by 12 is roughly 1400 a month. lets be reasonable and say we know flu is seasonal and more deaths occur in the winter even if you double 1400 to 2800 its clear to see 9000 is a much bigger number and lets just reiterate over 4000 of the covid-19 deaths occurred in the last 7 days

Until and unless it can be quantified if any death has been directly attributed to CV, no-one knows this.
Agreed, health services are already stretched to breaking point. The hysteria surrounding CV has created panic with many people turning up at hospitals because they are showing some or all symptoms.

Wrong as some of you know I largely left the domain industry to take up a career in the NHS I can see from the front line what is happening and I can tell you A&E has been eerily quiet there is no large scale panic or hysteria. People are only turning up when they have had a serious accident IE have really broken rather than a little bump or bruise or when it is a genuine emergency acute Chest / abdominal pain or are in Acute respiratory distress.

The later of which I've X-rayed far more of in the last week than I have in the last 18 months since qualified.
Some due Anxiety attacks but far more due to suspected cases of covid-19 I say suspected as it takes so long to get the test results back test 3-4 days in many cases.
As for other test as I know you have mentioned else where yes when someone comes in with chest problems all the normal tests are still carried out Cardiac Enzymes, ECG Liver kidney function chest Xrays sepsis other infection markers etc. There is no mass conspiracy by all us healthcare professionals to suddenly diagnose every patient as covid

Approx 1450 people die every day in the UK. Life expectancy is 80yo

Yes that's true and these numbers have never overwhelmed the health system they push it to the limits most winters because of torrie cuts. But whats coming are way unchecked would certainly overwhelm it. The question is have the government left it to late we will only know the answer to that question 7-14 days from now. If they have its not only the elderly who will suffer and die but many other people who need the NHS for all the day to day things it saved people from before covid came along.

 

[newguy]

We're bound to be at about 500 deaths a day in 3 days time. For those questioning if Coronavirus is even directly responsible for these deaths, why would these numbers be rising here and elsewhere if not?

There are still some deeming this lock down to be an overreaction, but with the numbers exponentially increasing as they are, I think it becomes clear that it was a sensible move. Nobody benefits is we push our hospitals to breaking point. I heard that it's at all not uncommon for people to be on a ventilator for 20 days with this (one reason why lots of the cases aren't yet listed as recovered), so the 'smooth the curve' idea approach has merit..

I imagine from the economics point of view, that some countries would love to simply blast through this with no restrictions and get on with normal life, but without at least some I think there would be thousands of deaths a day before long, so people would be scared to go out anyway.

 

[keys]

The most informative, and probably accurate, assessment that I have seen is a 35 minute interview in Korean, with subtitles. The guest is a Professor and senior government medical advisor with 30 years experience in this field.

He explains how Korea has effectively overcome CV so far, and the possible longer term solutions. In some respects it is more disturbing than graphic images from overstretched medical facilities.

 

[AssetDomains]

The most informative, and probably accurate, assessment that I have seen is a 35 minute interview in Korean, with subtitles. The guest is a Professor and senior government medical advisor with 30 years experience in this field.

He explains how Korea has effectively overcome CV so far, and the possible longer term solutions. In some respects it is more disturbing than graphic images from overstretched medical facilities.

Do you have a link I've been vastly impressed at how they have handled it there.

 

[boxfish]

Do you have a link I've been vastly impressed at how they have handled it there.

Not sure but possibly this one:

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[keys]

Yes, that one. I highly recommend the full 37 minutes, if you would like a clearer picture of CV progress.

 

[LCHappy]

There are still some deeming this lock down to be an overreaction, but with the numbers exponentially increasing as they are, I think it becomes clear that it was a sensible move.

But take a look at what is happening in Italy, day 20 and people are starting to raid supermarkets. People have run out of money and they can't feed their families.

There has to be a balance of Covid Deaths v Starving to death v Riots

In my opinion, It's just too simple to say lock everything down. The studies show that you have about 20-30 days of lockdown before people start doing their own thing. That seems to now be being played out in Italy. Lord only knows what South Africa is going to be like in a week or so.

 

[newguy]

But take a look at what is happening in Italy, day 20 and people are starting to raid supermarkets. People have run out of money and they can't feed their families.

There has to be a balance of Covid Deaths v Starving to death v Riots

In my opinion, It's just too simple to say lock everything down. The studies show that you have about 20-30 days of lockdown before people start doing their own thing. That seems to now be being played out in Italy. Lord only knows what South Africa is going to be like in a week or so.

It's no doubt a difficult balancing act. I think in time their strategy will adjust and they will request that people in less vulnerable demographics try to carry on as normal. But the numbers of people dying will likely factor into their planning. It's certainly not ideal not to be able to carry on as normal day to day, but in any scenario and using any approach there is going to be no 'normal' to return to for as long as the numbers are as high as they are in Italy for example.

 

[bonusmedia]

https://www.concordiavolunteers.org.uk/feed-the-nation

 

[AssetDomains]

But take a look at what is happening in Italy, day 20 and people are starting to raid supermarkets. People have run out of money and they can't feed their families.

There has to be a balance of Covid Deaths v Starving to death v Riots

In my opinion, It's just too simple to say lock everything down. The studies show that you have about 20-30 days of lockdown before people start doing their own thing. That seems to now be being played out in Italy. Lord only knows what South Africa is going to be like in a week or so.

It is worrying Whats happening in Italy but it doesn't have to be this way in the west. The EU needs to step in with direct cash into peoples banks similar to what the US is doing. I know Italy has a wage protection scheme similar to here and elsewhere in Europe this linked to Tax contributions though. I think the problem in southern Italy is the cash economy and tax dodging making it hard administrate. There is a element of chickens coming home to roost for these tax dodgers but still in the west we cant let people starve and society fall into ruin. I really fear for what's going to happen in India and Africa and the other less developed parts of the world

 

[MurrayMurray is verified member.]

Maybe everyone under 50 without a health condition and not displaying symptoms needs to go back to work

Anyone who doesn't fall into that category needs to heavily self isolate

 

[anthony]

Maybe everyone under 50 without a health condition and not displaying symptoms needs to go back to work

Anyone who doesn't fall into that category needs to heavily self isolate

That tends to ignore the asymptomatic effect, as it's virtually impossible to avoid millions of people less than say 35 who live with their 55+ parents etc.

 

[MurrayMurray is verified member.]

That tends to ignore the asymptomatic effect, as it's virtually impossible to avoid millions of people less than say 35 who live with their 55+ parents etc.

Thats true

I don't know if there are any unique reasons why Italians would riot and storm supermarkets and the UK wouldn't but fingers crossed

Having seen the London riots there's enough people happy to go out to loot tomorrow if they could, on top of families doing it out of desperation, I wouldn't be surprised if it was already being planned

Hopefully having seen this the government, if it's even possible, will expedite all the financial help they've promised

If not at a certain point does the collapse of society outweigh the overwhelming of the NHS in terms of a crisis and would the NHS even be able to run properly in such conditions

 

[newguy]

That tends to ignore the asymptomatic effect, as it's virtually impossible to avoid millions of people less than say 35 who live with their 55+ parents etc.

It's certainly imperfect and imperils the vulnerable, but if vast numbers of people in at-risk groups can isolate themselves to their best of the their ability and let others build an immunity to it, it would in a sense also help to protect people. I'm fully behind the current strategy but long term it seems realistic that 50%+ of the population will get this virus at some point, before it hopefully peters out.