development on non MS based products

[disruptive]

I have to confess I have done most of my web development on a MS platform. I'm beginning to see the merits of walking in the direction of open source.

However it seems this means PHP, which I have only limited experience. There are an increasing number of new platforms such as Ruby on Rails and Python platforms. I do python and some ruby. So my question is: "has anyone got any experience of web developing with Python/RonR". Or is PHP still the best OS web development program.

 

[davedevelopment]

I have experience in all three, but as I know PHP like the back of my hand compared to ruby or python, I end up going back to it all the time.

If I were starting fresh, without prior knowledge of the languages themselves, I think I'd go with Python/Django.

PHP will always have it's uses, especially for minisites etc, where you really just want to drop a little functionality into some HTML. So if you do a lot of that, maybe PHP would be the way to go, using one of the many frameworks for the larger sites.

 

[rob]

I use the standard 'lamp' setup ie. Linux apache mysql and php.

Overall lower cost to dev, and suits me as I know enough php to do what I want.

I can do a little .net, but as everything is setup linux focused there is no sense in having apps/sites made like that.

 

[retired_member27]

Like Rob I use the LAMP setup, however in my case the P is for Perl which I find by far the best language for really complex websites.

 

[tifosi]

Like Rob I use the LAMP setup, however in my case the P is for Perl which I find by far the best language for really complex websites.

Got to say I disagree thesedays about perl being best for large websites. I've used php for close on 10yrs now, from php3 to php5.3/6.

It has its detractors about being a loose language with security holes, but that's ultimately down to the developer.

PHP5 & especially 5.2.5+, 5.3 and the upcoming 6 is more and more OOP based and more than capable of enterprise level projects. Most of the best known and up&coming CMS.ERP projects are PHP5 OOP based with pattern based OOP development.

I'm a geeky purist though and still rant about bad non-OOP based php projects littering the web. *cough WP* *cough oscommerce*

S

 

[Admin]

I use LAMP too but only learnt PHP as a consequence of vBulletin and other PHP based scripts I use. I still consider myself a novice.

If you want a full demo Apache server on a Windows box install: http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp-windows.html

Then I use http://www.pspad.com/en/ freeware editor.

Set the Server location in PsPad as your Xampp htdocs folder and you can code and test on your Windows PC with ease

Admin

 

[bensd]

I don't know php at all, apart from putting in a few includes for headers/menus/footers but would love to learn it.

Any recommendations for online tutorials or reading etc?

 

[Admin]

I don't know php at all, apart from putting in a few includes for headers/menus/footers but would love to learn it.

Any recommendations for online tutorials or reading etc?

Same here, anyone want to run a free AD PHP training course or webcast?

 

[tifosi]

double post... see below. Seems to be a time delay somewhere!

 

[tifosi]

If you want a book to start with get 'PHP & MySQL web development' by Welling & Thompson. In it's 3rd/4th edition. Amazon has the latest version. Also 'Advanced PHP' by schlossnagle from the same publisher. Apress has some good books on advanced PHP OOP & patterns.

PHP.net has a lot of documentation. Google is your friend!

phpclasses.org has a lot of good core classes.

Same here, anyone want to run a free AD PHP training course or webcast?

Sorry, time is money & all that! Muck n brass!

 

[disruptive]

Cheers guys...

I have been thinking about django, but it seems mainly implemented for CMS systems and not sure how it will pan out for more custom ground up approaches. Of course I am a big python fan - but realise that code life is pretty important and that keeps bringing me back to PHP.

I've done plenty of SQL stuff in the past - so its just a question of learning the object model in PHP.

 

[monaghan]

For PHP tutorials, take a look at Sitepoint.com, their books and forums are quite good as well.

As mentioned by others PHP is often looked down on by some programmers, however since PHP5 it is a lot more robust than it used to be. My thoughts are that if you can code well you will code well in whatever language you use, if your coding is pants, then the language you choose to use won't really make that much difference

Take a look at the Eclipse editor, there is a PHP specific version you can download and the latest version I upgraded to the other day seems to have a type of code completion along the lines of the MS intellisense system.

Big projects can get a bit of a pain to work with as you can't split a class into multiple files (unless you make heavy use of includes). The Partial class in .net possibly made me lazy in the past.

As for SQL, take a look at adodb this will give you a familiar view of the database without having to write your own database classes.

The Smarty template system gives you the ability to split presentation and code (although you can still include code in the presentation layer as Smarty is essentially PHP)

For development I have a local copy of Apache & MySQL on my test server, but there are many solutions to install a development environment onto a single PC if you just have the 1 box.

For distribution of code to customers, SourceGuardian will give you the ability to protect distributable code from modification - about as secure as you'll be able to get in the PHP world.

 

[tifosi]

Big projects can get a bit of a pain to work with as you can't split a class into multiple files (unless you make heavy use of includes).

That's where pattern-based OOP development comes in with composition & inheritance. With php5's autoload, and better still SPL autoloading it's easy to construct a complex class.

That's why I want to hurl when I look at the guts of wordpress!

 

[davedevelopment]

As for SQL, take a look at adodb this will give you a familiar view of the database without having to write your own database classes.

The Smarty template system gives you the ability to split presentation and code (although you can still include code in the presentation layer as Smarty is essentially PHP)

I wouldn't bother with either of those any more, pick a framework and go with their recommended practices.

There's plenty to choose from, my picks being:

* Zend Framework
* Symfony
* CodeIgniter
* Yii

The former two for larger projects, the latter for smaller sites

 

[expertc]

From my experience:

PHP (e.g. LAMP) - cheap and cheerful, easy to learn. Has tons of free code snippets so even a noob can make use of it (something like Lego blocks...)
PERL - very fast, doesn't have a pretty face. Best for fast processing of simple text.
ROR, etc. - attempt to replace and somehow simplify the area made for Java. Never used them, to be honest.

And here comes THE King - J2EE, for any coder that knows C - easy to learn. Scalable to any level. Needs lots of work. Better done by teams.