Direct.uk is ongoing.....

[monaghan]

What is also being missed here is that many early adopters of the Internet have good .co.uk domains which have not been DRS'd, yet the proposals were to offer .uk domains to trademark holders first, holding a .co.uk would count for nothing, this in turn would lead to consumer confusion trying to determine whether to go to myshop.co.uk or myshop.uk potentially crippling the "little guy" who invested early in myshop.co.uk.

If you then choose to offer .uk to the .co.uk holder, then for the most popular terms what does anyone other than Nominet get out of .uk?

Many existing .co.uk owners have the matching .com and other TLD's so would just reg the .uk resulting in it being just another TLD to reg for brand protection. Yes there may well be a few medium quality names back in the pot, but these are just as likely to be taken by the smaller domainers than companies or "real users".

Domainers will always duck & dive between deals, so most of those making big money will survive the .uk introduction, yet despite this they still stand against .uk, that's got to suggest something!

 

[namealot]

If .co.uk domains are the wild west then why wasn't Phil Kingsland dressed in cowboy attire at Domaining Europe 2012. This domaining event occurred just 5 months before Nominet announced the direct.uk proposal and consultation. There he is talking up .co.uk domains to an eager audience. A few months later he's promoting a new extension .uk.

http://www.dnjournal.com/archive/lowdown/2012/dailyposts/20120429.htm

So you expected them to promote the new product by saying the old is shit or they would never bring out another did you.... Interesting marketing growth strategy which I've yet to see anyone in business ever use think “new improved “as they would sell it...

 

[Nigel]

The commercial domain space has already been sold - its called .co.uk. No need for another product - proposing another commercial domain space to run alongside/competing with .co.uk is sheer greed on nominet's part. Now they can't say they didn't induce people to buy .co.uk domains. Quite the opposite - they took every opportunity to pump up .co.uk domains - conferences - auctions etc. And within months they introduce another extension - Bringing large losses in value for .co.uk domain owners. You might think that's par for the course - but I don't - it's not the way I treat people in business. If I make a promise I stand by it - even if it hurts sometime.

 

[websaway]

So you expected them to promote the new product by saying the old is shit or they would never bring out another did you.... Interesting marketing growth strategy which I've yet to see anyone in business ever use think “new improved “as they would sell it...

Ok I know where you're coming from, but look, even if you should expect a business to act in that manner it doesn't necessarily mean that they can get away with a smash and grab idea.
They have already found it difficult to re-sell the uk business namespace ( no surprise ) and will find it increasingly difficult in the future.
If they really wanted to promote the .uk then they would have to simply offer a .uk for a co.uk and phase the .co.uk out gradually, now how realistic that is I don't know, we'll have to wait and see what the new proposal looks like
.
The great idea in the first proposal was to cloak their objective using issues of security.

 

[GreyWing]

.
The great idea in the first proposal was to cloak their objective using issues of security.

It was until security experts seen it and then laughed at it.

 

[websaway]

It was until security experts seen it and then laughed at it.

Yes, it is like a building company owning loads of land in say the New Forest and wanting to build houses on it, the idea is clearly money making, the practicalities of reaching that objective is something else.

 

[Edwin]

A much better analogy is this:

Shops and businesses have established themselves over time in large numbers on the costly land in the commercial district at the centre of a city. They are paying handsomely for the privilege, and are happy/willing to do so because of the prestige of the area (great footfall, credibility etc). If they come onto the market at all, plots of land in this area exchange hands at high prices. Land in other parts of the city costs just a tiny fraction of the going rates for this prime commercial space, but the price reflects the benefits and it remains highly sought after (and completely occupied, with wall-to-wall businesses jostling for space)

Suddenly (with no prior warning) every single property sinks into the ground overnight until only the flat roofs are sticking out, flush with the ground. A layer of tarmac is poured over the submerged businesses, and the "new land" thus created is sold anew.

Sure, you can still "get to" the old businesses by going down from the street into the basement of the new properties, but they've instantly lost the prime locations that they had spent all that time, energy, money and resources establishing themselves on.

Doesn't the above sound absolutely bug-eyed crazy? How could ANY of the affected businesses have anticipated that? Can you imagine the stink that would be raised if such a plan were even hinted at? Yet it's as close as a real-world analogy to direct.uk as you're likely to find.

After all, Nominet willingly worked arm in arm with businesses, government, end users, domain investors, secondary market platforms, etc. for close to two decades to establish .co.uk as THE business extension (backed by regular surveys that they proudly trumpeted to prove the effectiveness and value of the extension) - then tried to sweep the extension aside as a "second best" choice by bringing in .uk over the top.

I believe that the direct.uk proposal did catch a lot of people, even very experienced hands, by surprise by virtue of how ludicrously misguided it was. In business, you sensibly plan for every foreseeable likelihood - but it's the very rare business indeed that plans for insane, completely off-the-wall things that logic dictates could/would never happen.

But hindsight makes for a great stick to beat people with, doesn't it? Especially if you've got some sort of an axe to grind against domain investors anyway because of some misplaced sense of entitlement/feelings of being hard done by. All these "Well, you should have guessed this utterly nonsensical, ludicrously unlikely scenario was going to sabotage your business. Ha ha! Serves you right for being so blinkered. Sucks to be you" posts are pathetic, spineless revisionism after the fact.

 

[retired_member29]

Slightly off topic but whatever happens i dont think UK domains is a shrinking business, without doing proper research and posting links, i have a few rough points to make off the top of my head:

1) The population of the UK is growing
2) Online business is growing
3) The UK economy is healing slowly but surely?
4) Devices such as tablets and future faster broadband is taking off

Now all of these factors i think effect the UK domain industry in a positive way. Just some random thoughts.

 

[Bailey]

The Internet economy has been fantastically large for years . The problem for the UK has always been how much of it is associated/related to our own .co.uk extension. (even within our borders)

I've said it before - The proposed launch of the 'New' UK extension is about Nominet bringing the UK domain space back under its stewardship and control (in its entirety) Sure this will mean tie-ups with the largest, Registration customer facing, Commercial resellers. Capture systems that don't favour the tech savvy. But, let those with the presence and customer facing outlets dictate values etc. It's not about tight control, The ICANN model, by example, never was

For all its faults the Gtld (.com etc) system works. and it's the model that Nominet now want to emulate.

Nominet never foresaw the control of the UK namespace by its open membership model garnered by the tech-aware. The systems that allowed such, and I have to say its stagnating effects.

Now whether Nominet is the right or even a capable body to move things forward or indeed have any part of a new UK space is whole different matter

 

[vikingraider]

.en?

Considering the UK seems to be breaking up as we lose our economic power, I'd have thought .uk is a dead duck, at least long term (after we're all gone anyway). Maybe there's more mileage in national domains?

.en or .eg for England, etc.

Just a thought

 

[Nigel]

Considering the UK seems to be breaking up as we lose our economic power, I'd have thought .uk is a dead duck, at least long term (after we're all gone anyway). Maybe there's more mileage in national domains?

.en or .eg for England, etc.

Just a thought

I wouldn't mind an England extension (as long as nominet don't run it!) but personally don't like .en or .eng - I prefer the longer term .England - it sounds much better. Not sure that it would be that popular for businesses as .co.uk tells everyone that you trade across the whole of the uk and its been established for so long - so customers trust it. a .England domain would be nice for tourism sites and local interest sites.

In any event I can't see Scotland voting for independence so don't see UK breaking up for a very long time - if ever.

 

[Murray]

I wouldn't mind an England extension (as long as nominet don't run it!) but personally don't like .en or .eng - I prefer the longer term .England - it sounds much better. Not sure that it would be that popular for businesses as .co.uk tells everyone that you trade across the whole of the uk and its been established for so long - so customers trust it. a .England domain would be nice for tourism sites and local interest sites.

In any event I can't see Scotland voting for independence so don't see UK breaking up for a very long time - if ever.

I don't really much like .england, too long.

But then .en sounds foreign to me, not sure why.

.en.uk

.eng.uk

maybe

travel.en.uk/travel.eng.uk hmmm not sure I like it.

maybe en.uk looks alright after I've been sitting here staring at it for a minute.

 

[TheAngryDog]

in regards Scotland's independence not surr that

 

[TheAngryDog]

in regards Scotland's independence not sure what ccTLD would be used but with .scot on the horizon, plus the .uk not looking good for scottish based domaind

 

[anthony]

Bring back .gb, Nominet have no rights to it, about time we had some real choice.

 

[Stephen]

Nominet going forward...

Last time when the .uk consultation was created, Nominet did not consult the wider domain community and was vague about exactly which organizations it consulted about .uk and what shape it may take.

Has anybody seen anything from Nominet about gathering opinions or bouncing ideas of what unforeseen flaws there may be in their current thinking, outside a Nominet select few staff?

Wait before you reply, "Nominet have gathered all the opinions in their .uk consultation?", I would say Nominet have not: they have received arguments/points/observations about a single presented proposal and the replies in my opinion should not be mistakenly taken by Nominet as all relevant points of view about .uk and the way forward and twisted and used as blue print of agreement of what to do next.

I hope Nominet will use this forum to float any new thinking of what might happen to see if more observations can be provided that they have not considered, that may factor into their final proposal to the board of Nominet.

 

[namealot]

I do wonder co.uk? Has it no customer loyalty. No industry reputation, built upon little or no substance? why does an extra cctld effect it so much? Other tlds launched to bigger target audience mobi, tel info all the new that are coming out will or did they make any difference? Poor names, no plain other than regging no hindsight or vision to figure its bad business, doesn’t stop people regging them though? Makes stronger name portfolio or developing or quicker turn around rather than reg do nothing a maybe a better strategy. Is sex.co.uk worth less because of sex,uk is there only one buyer for the name ?

The two biggest ifs with “uk” I see Joe public the buyer of the goods services etcwill they take to it ? Or are they just sheep and go anywhere (Then the cctld etc doesn’t matter) Or importantly for domainers business did they all flocked to plc.uk .ltd.uk etc (If it’s because its shorter then co.uk is stuffed? )
Or because nom says so ? The co.uk public perceptions , first to market advantage etc is all that “spin” will “uk” have better spin? Not from nom but the registrars all those in the industry they’ll give it a good go? Don’t bother with cctlds at all go com or will that fall foul eventually they keep trying co etc all aimed at grabbing the com market.

Personally don’t really give a toss one way or another I can see benefits for both depreciation of current undeveloped against potential growth of new? ordinary Joes no vested interest one way or the other then yes shorter cctld uk like fr, de, es, us, infact most of the rest of the world less hassle typing
reg one name for profit you decide what or if it sells that done millions of times over especially non developed you’re going to get a new cctld , tld etc s appearing and search engines changing they parameters nobody wants to keep finding holding, affiliate undeveloped pages ? are those enough reasons alone or obvious £.

If all domainers, developers, marketing firms all other associated with the industry told clients there no good would as many be regged or would they be like uk.com plc.uk .ltd.etc or is the truth of the matter is most will have there noses in the trough whilst moaning of the demise of there existing yet gorging on the new ?

 

[julian]

your not Mr. IOW firestars are you, he's long dead?

p.s. If you are firestars you must have had a personality transplant - you seem better for it if so.

I am neither trying to goad anyone, nor am I new to the domain game. What I realised early on was that holding a large portfolio in a highly volatile market such as domain names was financial madness. So, I quickly learnt to liquidate my holdings on a regular basis and use the profits to pay off my mortgage.

Am I excited about the chance to obtain desired names that would otherwise been out of my reach? Yes. Very much so.

Do I feel sorry for holders of large portfolios of .co.uk domains that may (or may not) have to either pay large fees to obtain the .uk equivalent OR see their holdings diluted to a fraction of today's valuation? No. Not at all. Its a jungle out there and we all need to look after number 1.

I will not proactively lobby Nominet to proceed with .uk. They would have no interest in me and I have no interest in doing so but if it does go through, I will fill my boots and it hopefully will be like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[retired_member29]

This has probably been covered before but wont .uk instead of co.uk increase the value of UK domains internationally?.

For example would international domain investors be more keen to invest in .uk rather .co.uk. Having 3 less digits has surely got to be a some sort of bonus. Also would there be some uk business's who it would benefit keeping a uk domain ext rather than com because of the shortened version. Maybe there are some clues in Germany's main extension .de.

SO would this proposal not boost the UK domain industry as a whole to have a similar shorter extension to the likes of Germany?. If yes would it not be reasonable to question the motives of the people opposing this.

 

[Stephen]

Profit v Non-profit?

This has probably been covered before but wont .uk instead of co.uk increase the value of UK domains internationally?.

For example would international domain investors be more keen to invest in .uk rather .co.uk. Having 3 less digits has surely got to be a some sort of bonus. Also would there be some uk business's who it would benefit keeping a uk domain ext rather than com because of the shortened version. Maybe there are some clues in Germany's main extension .de.

SO would this proposal not boost the UK domain industry as a whole to have a similar shorter extension to the likes of Germany?. If yes would it not be reasonable to question the motives of the people opposing this.

I agree to an international investor in domains, a .uk would have more appeal than a .co.uk and so if that was the only UK domain its prices would go up from where they are now, as demand would be higher.

That is why if Nominet launched .uk lots of international domain investors would put lots of resources and funds to obtaining the best quality and most desirable .uk domain names and depending on the release mechanisim if they went ahead, would mean very slim pickings for small Uk domain investors (not much different as too now with opportunities with .co.uk).

If you regard "domaining" as an industry were usual rules of business apply you are in the camp of Nominet who see growth of the market and the maximum number of domains as key to success, whereas you can take the other view Nominet is non profit organization and should act for the benefit of the UK namespace including its current users.

Nominet has shown total disregard for existing .co.uk owners positions both as users of the domain for proper websites and those investors who have them for resale or future development, in any planning that I strongly object to, not the .uk itself.