20i Domains

First DRS claim

Discussion in 'Domain Name Disputes' started by DarkSky, Aug 12, 2020.

  1. DarkSky

    DarkSky Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2009
    Posts:
    117
    Likes Received:
    3
    so in the last 3 months I've regged approx 500 domains. half of those are expired domains. I'm not parking these domains or offering to sell them.

    so, this DRS case if for <word><niche>.co.uk and to me it seems a bit plain and generic. archive.org tells me a small club had the domain before me.

    The DRS claimant says the registration is abusive because it uses their intellectual property, which is apparently "<word> <niche>", and they back this up with a link to arhive.org. There is no trademark registered, nor has there ever been a company registered with the name. (I check these before regging)

    I offered them the domain for the DRS fee -20%, which seems fair to me.

    I have not responded to the case yet, does anyone have any tips on how to secure this domain in my favour, or more to the point, what *not* to say in my response?
     
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

    Joined:
    1999
    Messages:
    Many
    Likes Received:
    Lots
    articles.co.uk
     
  3. JMI

    JMI Active Member Acorn Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 2015
    Posts:
    433
    Likes Received:
    74
    Offering the domain for DRS fee early put you in weak position.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  4. Ben Thomas

    Ben Thomas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2018
    Posts:
    1,665
    Likes Received:
    215
    Agreed. You shouldn't have done that. If you truly think it isn't an abusive registration, why would you roll over?
     
  5. redbird United Kingdom

    redbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2005
    Posts:
    1,177
    Likes Received:
    24
    Were they owners prior to the drop?
    If not then did they issue a DRS against previous owners. If not why not?

    If they were, then as the domain/email wouldn't have worked for 60+ days prior to the drop, it can't have been that important to them.

    See the info on abusive domains at
    https://www.nominet.uk/domain-support/uk-domain-disputes/

    As others have said, offering to sell to them wasn't a great move.

    Refusing mediation will force them to pay to continue the DRS
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
  6. Jiblob United Kingdom

    Jiblob Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2005
    Posts:
    161
    Likes Received:
    36
    If they don't have a trademark registered and you type "<word><niche>" into Google and it comes up with other companies using the name and not their company specifically on first page then they don't have a leg to stand on because it's generic enough to fail to identify their "brand" specifically.

    Archive.org isn't proof of anything in terms of brand use or that the phrase in question is a way to recognise their brand in the market place.

    If you haven't used it in bad faith prior to the DRS, like offering it to them, then I don't why you would lose.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
  7. poetry

    poetry Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2007
    Posts:
    188
    Likes Received:
    3
    If your 500 domains shows a pattern of alleged abusive registrations then that will count against you.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Hay

    Hay Active Member Exclusive Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2019
    Posts:
    346
    Likes Received:
    88
    I had one not long back where the domain was listed for sale for £200 and they didn't bother to make an offer or even buy it for £200 (It was a low-value mediocre domain), instead they paid multiple thousands to go down the DRS route (Which i was shocked by when i received the email showing how much they had paid to complete the DRS, i didnt realise people paid such high amounts to complete a DRS especially when they could have bought it for £200 by visiting the domain's for sale page!) as i didn't even bother to reply and let them have it given they had paid through the roof for the DRS and the domain wasn't worth anywhere near that.
     
  9. poetry

    poetry Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2007
    Posts:
    188
    Likes Received:
    3
    It’s the lawyers acting in their own interests not that of the client....
     
  10. Ben Thomas

    Ben Thomas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2018
    Posts:
    1,665
    Likes Received:
    215
    A phone call helps.
     
  11. mibut United Kingdom

    mibut Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2005
    Posts:
    332
    Likes Received:
    16
    If its a club, find out if they unincorporated and incorporated.
    If they are unincorporated then they are not a legal entity and cannot sue or enter into a contract. I had this with a fishing club last year. Once this was pointed out they backed off.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. DarkSky

    DarkSky Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2009
    Posts:
    117
    Likes Received:
    3
    Thanks for all of the replies, was not expecting that!

    I've since had a print out of the email sent to me a week ago, sent to me as a letter via *special delivery* - which would have cost nominet more than the registration fee of the domain. Am I right in thinking, that so far it has cost the claimant nothing to initiate this? Why would nominet send a letter in the post, when they know I have logged in and read the claim? I think this tells me something about nominets position in these matters, hmm.


    edit: not sure if you mean in terms of DRS or getting that amount for the domain? I'm not a domainer so I'm not so exeprience on that side of things.

    Well, at the time I made the offer, I thought they had no chance of "winning" as IMO it isnt an abusive registration of any sort. The amount I asked for is less than I anticipate making from the domain (not from selling it, it has no real value in that respect imo) in the first year.

    Well, I can only assume they still operate as a club and I can imagine its frustrating for them, maybe. So why not offer an option? that gets it over with quickly and both are (potentially) happy.

    Yes they were

    In nominets communication, it says "You do not have to respond to this complaint, but any decision made about your domain name will apply to you even if you do not respond. If you want to respond (and we would encourage you to do so) we must receive the response on or before 21 August 2020.", which on first read says to me that they will may make a decision there and then? but if they dont, then the claimant can pay for a decision. I'm guessing I'm wrong on that, and the claimant *must* pay the fee for it to go as far as a decision which would lead to me losing the domain?

    If I do that, theres clubs in other parts of the UK using the name, as well as a club in Australia. None of these are big/competitive in any way, just amateur/hobby stuff.

    While 50% of them are expired domains, I didnt catch them, I regged them manually, some months after they dropped. This is the first problem I've had. Often the .uk is available too, and I dont reg those.

    Thanks, I will look into that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
  13. cav United Kingdom

    cav Active Member

    Joined:
    May 2007
    Posts:
    658
    Likes Received:
    39
    It sounds like they could be a not for profit club run by volunteers who accidentally let the domain name drop (perhaps the person who dealt with this for them is no longer around). If this is the case and it was me, I would let them have it back FOC.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. DarkSky

    DarkSky Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2009
    Posts:
    117
    Likes Received:
    3
    Seems odd that they would wait 4 months (3 months after it expired + 1 month I since I regged it) and then their first move is to go through DRS instead of just using the contact form on the site to contact me about it? The site is active and being used, not parked/asking for an offer.
     
  15. Jiblob United Kingdom

    Jiblob Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2005
    Posts:
    161
    Likes Received:
    36
    Great, that works in your favour. Many people using the name means that the name is not just an identifier for the identity that is trying to grab the name from you. If it isn't associated with them specifically then they can't claim that you're targeting them specifically with the registration.
     
  16. Murray

    Murray Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2012
    Posts:
    4,180
    Likes Received:
    396
    Could that work against you in future DRS cases? that you're now on record as having one abusive registration
     
  17. BREWSTERS United Kingdom

    BREWSTERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2007
    Posts:
    2,418
    Likes Received:
    80
    Has this come to a head now? You mentioned a deadline of 21 Aug 20...be interesting to know the outcome, and the name in question.

    Also...what are they claiming to be their 'intellectual property'?
     
  18. DarkSky

    DarkSky Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2009
    Posts:
    117
    Likes Received:
    3
    This changed to the 25th Aug when i submitted my response, seems the goalposts can change, maybe some extra reading between the lines is needed with these things
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Robert Smith United Kingdom

    Robert Smith Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2016
    Posts:
    374
    Likes Received:
    37
    Ideally need to know the domain name to be able to advise. I avoided getting sued twice (by 2 huge conglomerates - they weren't messing around - i spent quite a bit buying the domains in the first place which was a kicker but this was back in 2012 when things were less formal and they were dot coms). It is very difficult to enforce but ideally need to know the domain name.

    I wouldn't have offered to sell to them. You would have been better getting the DRS and then selling privately afterwards.
     
  20. BREWSTERS United Kingdom

    BREWSTERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2007
    Posts:
    2,418
    Likes Received:
    80
    I'm guessing things didn't go too well?
     
  21. DarkSky

    DarkSky Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2009
    Posts:
    117
    Likes Received:
    3
    Well, actually, a nominet mediator emailed me to tell me he's seen this thread and linked it to my case. TBH the email seemed non-threatening and honest, but left me with a bad feeling. I'm guessing they would have a reply notification on this thread so I'll leave it there.

    As for progress, I've not heard anything from the other party so I guess I will just have to wait to see how it pans out.

    The mediator asked me in his email if I was interested in selling the domain, but in this situation I dont feel comfortable dealing with the registry about such matters, seems weird to me and a bad precedent for the future, which ever answer I gave.