20i Reseller Hosting

Have the 'no to .uk' changed their mind?

Discussion in '.UK Domain Name Consultations' started by Stephen, Nov 23, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Stephen United Kingdom

    Stephen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2006
    Posts:
    1,734
    Likes Received:
    13
    There have been many on Acorn and beyond who have argued that the status quo should be maintained and that .uk should not be released.

    Even many that wanted .uk argued that an impact study, surveys and a business case be provided to support .uk.

    Now Nominet have provided;
    • details of how it is bring in .uk
    • provided an independent study on .uk
    • provided a report of the thinking behind .uk
    • undertaken surveys about .uk
    • provided lots of Q & A and information

    Have the 'no to .uk camp' converted that .uk would be good for the UK namespace?
     
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

    Joined:
    1999
    Messages:
    Many
    Likes Received:
    Lots
    articles.co.uk
     
  3. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2005
    Posts:
    9,815
    Likes Received:
    537
    I still believe the status quo would be better for the UK namespace.

    However:
    A) I'm pragmatic enough to accept that we're not going to get to keep the status quo no matter what happens - that's extremely clear at this point.
    B) V3 is such an huge improvement over V2 that (given that .uk is going ahead) V3 is now "good enough" - in fact, it's hard to think of a better version than V3 if you start from the premise that .uk HAS to happen
    C) I'm therefore going to wait for V3 to be implemented.

    In summary, V3 gets a grudging thumbs up from me.

    I covered this in more detail here...
    http://www.dnjournal.com/archive/lowdown/2013/dailyposts/20131121.htm
     
  4. monaghan United Kingdom

    monaghan Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 2007
    Posts:
    2,099
    Likes Received:
    70
    I don't see that it is anything more than a vanity option and locking it down for 5 years is not exactly giving us more choice as you have to wait and see if the .co.uk you couldn't get decides to register the .uk, by which time you'd have chosen another TLD or a different name.

    The 5 year window just gives longer to migrate, so if the assumption is that people will own the .co.uk and the .uk why not just parallel run from day 1 and be done with it (like they were suggesting on .wales)

    I'd love to know how they will implement the checking at a registry level, how will they know that John Smith registrant of johnsmith.co.uk currently a customer of registrar X is the same regiistrant as my customer John Smith, after all, my customer may have looked at the whois and given the same address, he may also be someone like me who tends to use different email addresses with different suppliers so he can clearly see who is selling on his email addresses. This is going to be quite complex for the registrar and the customer unless they lock it down to the Nominet account the domain is in which in effect for most people locks you into a single regostrar.
     
  5. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2005
    Posts:
    9,815
    Likes Received:
    537
    Perhaps it will work something like domain transfers? In other words, a unique link will be sent to the admin email address on record for the qualifying domain at Nominet to verify that they are the same entity applying for the .uk. Hopefully we'll find out in February.
     
  6. websaway United Kingdom

    websaway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2007
    Posts:
    4,903
    Likes Received:
    107
    I don't think it's a question of changing one's mind, it's more about compromising on the inevitable and getting on with it.

    A lost year, a comedy of errors, total incompetence, but at least we can now function, and, who knows "from every adversity sprouts the seed of equal or greater opportunity, for those that search for it"
    W.Clement Stone.
     
  7. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2005
    Posts:
    9,815
    Likes Received:
    537
    Absolutely perfect summary. I've highlighted the advice in bold.
     
  8. foz

    foz Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2006
    Posts:
    3,030
    Likes Received:
    34
    Have the 'no to .uk' changed their mind?

    Nope, but can live with it. My renewals bill will double (eventually). It gives me time to adjust, prune and focus the portfolio. I can also start buying again knowing I won't be cut off at the knees based on when the registration date is.
     
  9. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2005
    Posts:
    9,815
    Likes Received:
    537
    Yes. Having a final decision unfreezes everything.

    Drop catchers know the status of what they're catching (whether it will qualify or not)

    Domain sellers can mention the .uk to help close deals.

    Domain buyers - as you pointed out - can get their chequebooks out again without worrying that they're buying lemons.

    Developers can start developing again.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
  10. bb99 United Kingdom

    bb99 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2005
    Posts:
    1,616
    Likes Received:
    38
    A good thread, thanks for the opportunity to have a moan.

    I have not changed my mind - I'm still against it.

    The changes were squared away with Government before the October board meeting. These changes do make it more palatable to me and my customers but the big beefs still remain:

    - Mass confusion is coming.

    - Increased costs are coming. More costs in (up to) 5 years time are still more costs.

    - There's just no point in it, it's change for change's sake under the guise of "relevance".

    The big registrars will clean up on all the incremental sales, Nominet will grow accordingly and any poor performance of its curious diversification strategy will get lost in the growth.

    That said, it is happening so I need to stop being miserable and move on - perhaps I'll email all my customers to tell them they *need* to start paying double from Summer next year :rolleyes:

    And, as above, on the plus side it has brought an end to the uncertainty that has dogged the secondary market for over a year.
     
  11. websaway United Kingdom

    websaway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2007
    Posts:
    4,903
    Likes Received:
    107
    I think because of the slow transition a huge train crash will be avoided.
    And yes you need to see the sheer volume of vehicle signage built up over 15 years to appreciate the cost of the change had it been done any differently.
     
  12. tifosi United Kingdom

    tifosi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2004
    Posts:
    3,411
    Likes Received:
    55
    That's if they drop! The new registrar agreement will put paid to that to a large degree and start a whole new industry of corporate warehousing. It's a case of the closer you are the less you see.. and many are too close to the .uk obsession.

    Agreed, I have 3 start up businesses that were on hold due to each of them potentially losing the .uk. Now I can at least get on with these with some security.
     
  13. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2005
    Posts:
    9,815
    Likes Received:
    537
    When's the new registrar agreement coming into force? I had a feeling it was still some way off being implemented?
     
  14. bulkcorn

    bulkcorn Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2011
    Posts:
    934
    Likes Received:
    13
    I was against .uk but remained open to the idea of the shorter extension as long as the business extension wasn't sold a second time to the highest bidders.

    I would have preferred a straightforward upgrade/transition from .co.uk to .uk rather than two separate domains ..... but I'd gladly settle for V3 than V1! .uk would have happened one way or the other!
     
  15. tifosi United Kingdom

    tifosi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2004
    Posts:
    3,411
    Likes Received:
    55
    Sure I've seen somewhere it will be introduced early 2014 with a 6month transition. No fixed date I think. Someone will have pointer links. Isn't it at the 'comment' stage now i.e. past consultancy final draft this is what it is version.

    From the nom-announce email:

    I expect it in force around the time .uk is introduced.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
  16. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2005
    Posts:
    9,815
    Likes Received:
    537
    Ok, thanks. So it sounds like .uk will be live before too long after it's implemented, which is sure to shake up drop catching in any case.
     
  17. Stephen United Kingdom

    Stephen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2006
    Posts:
    1,734
    Likes Received:
    13
    2 battles?

    After the launch of .uk, when a .co.uk drops that had the rights to .uk.

    Will there be 2 battles;

    who catches the .uk
    who catches the .co.uk​

    will the date time stamp be know, in case the .co.uk is caught first and they argue they have the 5 year rights to the .uk as it was previously registered or will it all change on launch?

    It is possible to code for that scenario at the registry level!
     
  18. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2005
    Posts:
    9,815
    Likes Received:
    537
    Nominet have already covered that in their Q&A:

    Since a dropped domain has always been counted as deleted-then-reregistered, if a .co.uk drops after launch that had been in the running for the .uk, the right to the .uk will be lost i.e. the new registrant of the .co.uk has no right.

    Now whether that unlocks the .uk to be registered instantly, or whether they're going to be batched up and released periodically, I don't know...
     
  19. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2005
    Posts:
    9,815
    Likes Received:
    537
    In other words, the whole "who qualifies for a .uk" question is based on a window in time.

    That window opened on 28 October 2013 and closes on launch day.

    Domains can never gain the right to the .uk after launch day, only lose it (if they had it but get dropped).
     
  20. anthony United Kingdom

    anthony Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2006
    Posts:
    1,762
    Likes Received:
    33
    In reality, it doesn't escape the scenario that to get .uk through, Nominet could simply have decided to capitulate to the whims and moans of the domainer community in terms of price and rights, simply to achieve the bigger picture. Without this vocal group on their side post .uk roll-out, the flack for Nominet would have continued for years to come, whereas now they have a happy bunch no longer carping on about the effects on businesses etc.

    As for the .co.uk v .org.uk debate, a disproportionate number of the .co.uk domains that would have lost rights to the .org.uk domains based on age are held by domainers. This is a result of many years drop catching, where the age rights 'flipped' over to the .org.uk registrants due to the .co.uk drop. By trampling over any rights for .org.uk's to .uk based on age, the drop catching community are left happy.

    No clearer point to emphasise this is the rights afforded to a .co.uk that is dropped and re-registered even after the cut-off date. It makes the anti-gaming measure appear ridiculous, and a deliberate act against .org.uk registrants to pacify drop catchers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
  21. scooter United Kingdom

    scooter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2006
    Posts:
    2,022
    Likes Received:
    41

    +1
    Hats off to Nominet. An exercise in how to double your income.





    .
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.