July PAB meeting report

[fred]

very well said fred..

<falls off chair in shock> :mrgreen:

So are we in agreement that the rules may allow you to register a domain name but this does not necessary give you rights to that domain name. AND importantly as you said Fred....the rules are totally separate to your rights....the rules as set out in clause 10 and are administrated by Nominet?

Do you agree ole?

Lee

Yes, Nominet can set their own rules, and can police them. Nominet should not, in my opinion for reasons I have already posted in this thread, police rights (obviously with exception to through the DRS).

 

[olebean]

ole you are now being silly....Nominet cannot purport to offer me the same contract terms as another but offer that other a different set of terms....and then take £750+vAT for an expert decision on rights which has nothing to do with rules....if you are studying the drs you should get a grade z for that remark!

Lee

Read what I write carefully.. nominet can "change their rules" if they do that all domain holders are subject to those changes.. what nominet can do is choose not to enforce the rules with one client and enforce the rules with another.. That is not silly it is basic stuff

 

[grandin]

bang on

right said fred, bang on....so here we go

Follow the rules and tell me the answer...

My company is Land@lord Limited and I want to register landlord.ltd.uk

Lee

 

[olebean]

right said fred, bang on....so here we go

Follow the rules and tell me the answer...

My company is Land@lord Limited and I want to register landlord.ltd.uk

Lee

You should have gone for land.ltd.uk alternatively you could have asked for your trading name which could be different that the company name

 

[fred]

right said fred, bang on....so here we go

Follow the rules and tell me the answer...

My company is Land@lord Limited and I want to register landlord.ltd.uk

Lee

well, as I read it - assuming the @ would be removed then as long as it is the only domain you register it should be ok.

I'm assuming you couldn't get it though so what was the reason?

 

[grandin]

what you go for

ole, what you go for is not what should be registered....

I went for a second ltd.uk but got refused by Nominet....is that because I was breaking the rules that Nomient were administrating at the time of the request for registration?

Clearly ole you are talking 'off the cuff' without reading the contract of registration that includes the rules..

Lee

 

[fred]

actually, re-reading it:

This algorithm is not guaranteed to generate a Domain Name capable of registration with us, i.e. the algorithm may only produce a name which is still in an inappropriate format or has already been registered, and in these cases the name will not be registered to your company.

so as it doesn't mention @'s it may fall under "an inappropriate format"

 

[Whois-Search]

I see the same guy got insurance.ltd.uk:

http://webwhois.nic.uk/cgi-bin/whois.cgi?query=insurance.ltd.uk

Using "In@ Surance Ltd"

Just shows you where there is a will there is a way and nothing with stop domaining....... I have even seen a .plc.uk domainer.

 

[grandin]

see fred

See Fred you have overlooked an important point but don't be too worried Nominet probably did the same....

the rules do not allow Nominet to remove the @ symbol therefore the name is not registrable under the rules....

If you follow each step you end up at the end of the set of rules with [email protected] which is not a name that is registrable....at no point are symbols removed in the rules...

You may say so what.... but Landlord Limited would be blocked by Nominet themselves, i.e. because Nomient did not correctly administrate their own set of rules.

To my surprise I have had to escalate my complaint to the chief executive



Lee

 

[olebean]

ole, what you go for is not what should be registered....

I went for a second ltd.uk but got refused by Nominet....is that because I was breaking the rules that Nomient were administrating at the time of the request for registration?

Clearly ole you are talking 'off the cuff' without reading the contract of registration that includes the rules..

Lee

Lee

If you don't go for it how can the rules be tested

 

[grandin]

design of the rules

The rules were designed to mirror that of Companies House but at no point were symbols considered.

Indeed Andrew....

Whilst Insurance is generic Insurance Limtied is not Insurance. Only one company can be called Insurance Limited and therefore have unequivocal rights to a domain name that represents that company i.e. ltd.uk is a company incorporated in the UK...

Nominet has created many @ symbol registrants in ltd.uk and they must undo this cock up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On this occassion their 3 million word contract has failed them lol

Lee

 

[olebean]

Whilst Insurance is generic Insurance Limtied is not Insurance. Only one company can be called Insurance Limited

Erm! I think you will find providing they trade in different sectors there can be more than one..

 

[retired_member12]

Erm! I think you will find providing they trade in different sectors there can be more than one..

No they can't i'm afraid! You can re-use a name of a dissolved company, or a name previously used by someone else. That's why you end up with permutations like this:

abcd limited
abcd(uk) limited
abcd(gb) limited
abcd(europe) limited, etc..

CH works on the single text string, so it strips out all the crap to end up with:

abcd
abcduk
abcdgb
abcdeurope

 

[olebean]

No they can't i'm afraid! You can re-use a name of a dissolved company, or a name previously used by someone else. That's why you end up with permutations like this:

abcd limited
abcd(uk) limited
abcd(gb) limited
abcd(europe) limited, etc..

CH works on the single text string, so it strips out all the crap to end up with:

abcd
abcduk
abcdgb
abcdeurope

You are right..

 

[grandin]

yes double tap is right

Yes double tap is right...the rules are designed to stop similar company names being offered...

for example the words... the, limited and company are removed when companies house is considering whether two companies are similar.... the example andrew explains is taking a generic word insurance and breaking it into two parts.....using a @ symbol....you can't just remove it when registering a domain name ending ltd.uk and thats what the rules state BUT Nominet fail to administrate them correctly....

Lee

 

[ScottJ]

I see Nominet have created their own Limited Company this year.

Nominet Limited
Registered No. 06259453
Type: Private Limited with share capital

Not a 'not for profit' company

 

[retired_member12]

^ WTF....

Watch the profits move!

 

[ScottJ]

Admin will have to create a new sub forum for 'Nominet Ltd'

Instead of: 'For tag holders and non tag holders'
It'll be: 'For shareholders'

 

[olebean]

Nominet UK hold all the shares and Ms T!! is sec

 

[Whois-Search]

Nominet Limited

This has already been posted on "nom-steer" and the story is...

Back in 1996 when Nominet was formed they let the name slip before registering the company. Someone registered Nomi.net Ltd and Nominet had to make do with "Nominet UK".... hey at least it wasn't Nomi@net Ltd !!!

Recently this company was dissolved and three days later Nominet registered Nominet Ltd as "name protection".

However ....

With the on going Governance Consultation and the comments made at the AGM (watch the webcast again) you have to wonder if there is a plan to float Nominet and pay off the members sometime in the future.