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Jury Service
- Thread starter stender
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I wish there was, they surely deserve it. Guilty the minute they walk in the door in my book.
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- Sep 24, 2009
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Going into my second week, I have taken laptop in as nothing seems to happen until 11am at the earliest!
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are you paid for jury service?
loss of earnings ?
loss of earnings ?
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- May 28, 2009
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Yes but not much, it's a set amount per day. Luckily my employer made up my pay.
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£30 ish for the day, and £5.50 for lunch which sounds great until you find a small cup of coffee is £1.15 and about 10 chips are £1.55!
got called to the old bailey last year for jury service and was sent along to a case where the judge told all the prospective jurors the case would last between 12 and 18 months!
He asked if anyone wouldn't be able to do it and every hand in the room went up! Luckily I managed to avoid that case, people who were choosen for it were just about in tears though.
He asked if anyone wouldn't be able to do it and every hand in the room went up! Luckily I managed to avoid that case, people who were choosen for it were just about in tears though.
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Well day one over. got there at 9am and got called at 1pm. I thought the case would be an open and shut case but boy do they drag it out. The defence barrister did a better job of prosecution than the prosecution!
I wont go into detail obviously but the case involves identity fraud. cant for the life of me work out how it's done though!
I wont go into detail obviously but the case involves identity fraud. cant for the life of me work out how it's done though!
2 days left and to sum up, what a waste of taxpayers money and british law is a joke!
every other case seems to have the defendant change their plea at the last minute to guilty. so that means 12 jurors wasted time, judge, qc, defence, usher 2 or 3 others and usually a police officer off the street.
so on average you have 64 jurors at the court every week 70% of the time sitting doing nothing. Your tax has been subsidising me catching up on dexter season3.
And whats worse the one case I have got to rule on.....
Scenario
defendant tries to leave shop with trolley of goods, is stopped by security guard and returns to shop. He then leaves again without paying AGAIN and says he was going to car park to get credit card from car in order to return and pay.
We're all unanimous that he's guilty of trying to nick the goods but.......
According to british law the definition of theft is
"A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it"
Therefore we had to be sure he was not going to return to the shop and pay! which we couldn't without seeing into the future!
So tommorow i'm going to harrods and walking out with the most expensive watch they have. If I happen to get as far as the train before being apprehended I'll just say I was going home to get my credit card and was then going to come back and pay! and a jury can't find me guilty.
every other case seems to have the defendant change their plea at the last minute to guilty. so that means 12 jurors wasted time, judge, qc, defence, usher 2 or 3 others and usually a police officer off the street.
so on average you have 64 jurors at the court every week 70% of the time sitting doing nothing. Your tax has been subsidising me catching up on dexter season3.
And whats worse the one case I have got to rule on.....
Scenario
defendant tries to leave shop with trolley of goods, is stopped by security guard and returns to shop. He then leaves again without paying AGAIN and says he was going to car park to get credit card from car in order to return and pay.
We're all unanimous that he's guilty of trying to nick the goods but.......
According to british law the definition of theft is
"A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it"
Therefore we had to be sure he was not going to return to the shop and pay! which we couldn't without seeing into the future!
So tommorow i'm going to harrods and walking out with the most expensive watch they have. If I happen to get as far as the train before being apprehended I'll just say I was going home to get my credit card and was then going to come back and pay! and a jury can't find me guilty.
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Yep but the judge should give you a direction when summing, that do you believe that any reasonable person would carry the goods out to the car to come back in with his / her cards. Or would any reasonable person ask a staff member to watch their goods whilst they return with their card.
If the judge hasn't summed things up for you thewn the judge is at fault. Remember it is not "beyond doubt" it is "beyond reasonable doubt" so do you think this chap was being reasonable in taking his shopping out.
The answer to that has to be no
On your second point the fraud trials are very complicated, that's why the government wanted to scrap jury trials as a high percentage of jurors have no grasp of what is going on, and some of them are truly baffling.
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A friend did jury duty recently and said that if it goes beyond a certain period number of weeks, the payments are much more than this.
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Sounds like the judge is a complete and idiot. I expect the defence to say it but the judge is just bizarre and silly.
No wonder we are in the mess we are in this country when people like that sit on the bench. I have heard judges on similair stories give better guidance than that.
I personally would like to see two things, the juror's question the suspect and the juror's set the sentance.
These judges are out of touch and sometimes more suspect than the criminals.
No wonder we are in the mess we are in this country when people like that sit on the bench. I have heard judges on similair stories give better guidance than that.
I personally would like to see two things, the juror's question the suspect and the juror's set the sentance.
These judges are out of touch and sometimes more suspect than the criminals.
But to go back to the identity fraud - how was that done?
I'm interested because someone managed to nick the identity of my aged and blind WWII veteran aunt a couple of years ago, and was trying to get a "xxK" loan from the Abbey National (who were suspicious, and checked with her).
Given that she is careful, shreds her old paperwork and lives very modestly, it is hard to see how anyone could have targeted her ...
I'm interested because someone managed to nick the identity of my aged and blind WWII veteran aunt a couple of years ago, and was trying to get a "xxK" loan from the Abbey National (who were suspicious, and checked with her).
Given that she is careful, shreds her old paperwork and lives very modestly, it is hard to see how anyone could have targeted her ...
Never got to the bottom of that. He lived in essex and the guy who's account was used was in herts. He somehow had 2 cards and statements addressed to the guy in herts so I can only assume the post was intercepted.
or dodgey postman friend.
I never understand all these frauds. I know someone who had a card cloned and the fraudsters bought all immediate use things such as tickets. But how does it work when someone for example buys stuff to be delivered? do they rent a bedsit for a week or two for cash and get the stuff delivered to there then disappear?
I know years ago people would goto the records centre and find a birth near to their age then request a copy of the birth certificate, then once you have that you can apply for......then.... then......Not sure you can do that now though? i did a family tree a couple of years back and got birth certificates without any id but they were old ones. dunno if they only check last few decades or so?
or dodgey postman friend.
I never understand all these frauds. I know someone who had a card cloned and the fraudsters bought all immediate use things such as tickets. But how does it work when someone for example buys stuff to be delivered? do they rent a bedsit for a week or two for cash and get the stuff delivered to there then disappear?
I know years ago people would goto the records centre and find a birth near to their age then request a copy of the birth certificate, then once you have that you can apply for......then.... then......Not sure you can do that now though? i did a family tree a couple of years back and got birth certificates without any id but they were old ones. dunno if they only check last few decades or so?
Well, about birth certificates - they write a disclaimer on them in indelible ink. I was adopted, so I know what they did when I went to get a copy of my birth certificate.
As a chemist, I know I could get around that and pass off the funny appearance as "something got spilled on it" - 99% acceptance rate, and only household chemicals needed.
Delivered goods - a work colleague of my wife got her card details stolen somehow. The fraudster was sitting in his car outside her house when she was working to take delivery of a couple of top-line laptops and some peripherals.
Someone cloned my debit card in Paris (I never use it abroad, but I use it on ferries) and tried to extract £6k on it. I was right up to the limit on my overdraft, so it was only good for £110 anyway.
A credit card was lost in the post - it was probably delivered to 26 xxxxx street, when I lived at 26 Upper xxxxx street, and I know the inhabitants of 26 xxxxx street are a pack of rascals anyway. That card was used to buy petrol from so many local filling stations I wouldn't have believed that the "Jat mafia" could extend so far. I was in Glasgow that day, and I calculated that I could have gone to Glasgow and back TWICE using the "petrol" bought.
I know that a lot of fraudsters will look for a "house for sale" with an open porch, where they can get goods delivered. Look like they're gardening, and why should the delivery man ask?
As an ex-delivery man, I can honestly say I've delivered to a couple of "knights of the realm" who were gardening at the time of delivery, as well as lots of ordinary people. After a while, you get cautious about the "for sale" sign and ask for ID - just like you learn to be wary when there's a notice on the delivery door bell, asking you to ring a mobile number because the bell's not working.
Getting the goods is relatively "simples"!, unless I'm the bloke delivering - and I'd be the first to admit it is easy to deceive a delivery man.
As a chemist, I know I could get around that and pass off the funny appearance as "something got spilled on it" - 99% acceptance rate, and only household chemicals needed.
Delivered goods - a work colleague of my wife got her card details stolen somehow. The fraudster was sitting in his car outside her house when she was working to take delivery of a couple of top-line laptops and some peripherals.
Someone cloned my debit card in Paris (I never use it abroad, but I use it on ferries) and tried to extract £6k on it. I was right up to the limit on my overdraft, so it was only good for £110 anyway.
A credit card was lost in the post - it was probably delivered to 26 xxxxx street, when I lived at 26 Upper xxxxx street, and I know the inhabitants of 26 xxxxx street are a pack of rascals anyway. That card was used to buy petrol from so many local filling stations I wouldn't have believed that the "Jat mafia" could extend so far. I was in Glasgow that day, and I calculated that I could have gone to Glasgow and back TWICE using the "petrol" bought.
I know that a lot of fraudsters will look for a "house for sale" with an open porch, where they can get goods delivered. Look like they're gardening, and why should the delivery man ask?
As an ex-delivery man, I can honestly say I've delivered to a couple of "knights of the realm" who were gardening at the time of delivery, as well as lots of ordinary people. After a while, you get cautious about the "for sale" sign and ask for ID - just like you learn to be wary when there's a notice on the delivery door bell, asking you to ring a mobile number because the bell's not working.
Getting the goods is relatively "simples"!, unless I'm the bloke delivering - and I'd be the first to admit it is easy to deceive a delivery man.
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