market sucks...

[Jamie101]

I've had a couple of PMs based on my previous post in this thread, I will get back to you guys at some point tonight - not ignoring you, just super busy!

Shoot me over a PM when you have time thanks!

 

[anthony]

...There's definitely still plenty of opportunities in domains though, even for newbies...

Totally agree. By now they should have worked out that .org.uk is the new .co.uk!

 

[Rob_F]

I think it is the way some people go about selling their domains too. I don't think certain sellers are doing themselves any favours by listing a name (or multiple names) and then every 24 hours reducing it/them, along with a desperate sounding comment, punctuated with several exclamation marks.

"Got to shift some of these tonight guys!!!"
"NO OFFERS??"
"20 for £1??"
"Are they that bad!!!!!?
"Some of these have got to be worth at least £50, NO?!!!"
etc.

- Rob

 

[Jamie101]

I think it is the way some people go about selling their domains too. I don't think certain sellers are doing themselves any favours by listing a name (or multiple names) and then every 24 hours reducing it/them, along with a desperate sounding comment, punctuated with several exclamation marks.

"Got to shift some of these tonight guys!!!"
"NO OFFERS??"
"20 for £1??"
"Are they that bad!!!!!?
"Some of these have got to be worth at least £50, NO?!!!"
etc.

- Rob

I really agree with you. Especially when something starts off at a "great price that won't be reduced (£500)" and then for the next week or two it drops by £50 every few days.

It makes people think that they should wait and wait until its at the minimum that the person would sell it for.

 

[Edwin]

I think it is the way some people go about selling their domains too. I don't think certain sellers are doing themselves any favours by listing a name (or multiple names) and then every 24 hours reducing it/them, along with a desperate sounding comment, punctuated with several exclamation marks.

That, or the "Another 24 hours and I'm going to stop this sale and develop the domain." (as if that magically makes it more appealing) It's like the boy who cried "wolf" - we all know this isn't going to happen, so why keep pretending that it will?

But the single biggest problem, without a shadow of a doubt, is people posting the SAME names for sale again and again and again. No wonder nobody's looking at the sales threads much any more!

 

[Rob_F]

But the single biggest problem, without a shadow of a doubt, is people posting the SAME names for sale again and again and again. No wonder nobody's looking at the sales threads much any more!

Yep, and overly long "make offer" lists, or worse still, overly long "make *realistic/educated offer" lists.

Do I really want to spend an hour or two creating a short list of domains I'd like to buy from said list, value each of those names and shoot over an offer that makes it worth my while. Only to receive a reply (sometimes) stating that my offer is no where near acceptable.

Answer: No, I don't.

---

* Educated/Realistic

Educated = uneducated, offer me more that it is worth.
Realistic = end user level offers only, please.

- Rob

 

[websaway]

Some good posts last night on this topic.

I just wonder if some buyers are trying to drive the market down by listing endless worthless domains which won't sell and most don't list their best names . It's in the buyers interest for sellers to reduce prices through frustration and uncertainty ( the wood for the trees syndrome )

Lesson: don't register a name unless you can develop it or hold it for five to ten years. Cycles in this industry are not new nor are the cycles within the cycles, quality domains will retain their value in the long term and the people with the quality domains are fully aware of that. You won't see fire sales on the top names any time soon, if ever.

And I completely agree that to list a portfolio of names with no prices, and not as a single portfolio sale, is an affront to domainers intelligence aswell as an abuse of the AD system.

 

[Brassneck]

Some good posts here. It would be interesting to know what is still driving the increase in the UK registry. It's been growing 10 per cent a year and now nearly 10 million domain names - http://www.nominet.org.uk/intelligence/statistics/registration/

I suspect that the vast majority businesses are happier to register a new domain name (brandable or sub-optimal generic) than to 'invest' in a more suitable generic name. Unless that changes then it is only the top x% of registered names (where x could be 1 or less) where a proper aftermarket exists. Only a handful of domainers own significant numbers of such names.

 

[Edwin]

I suspect that the vast majority businesses are happier to register a new domain name (brandable or sub-optimal generic) than to 'invest' in a more suitable generic name. Unless that changes then it is only the top x% of registered names (where x could be 1 or less) where a proper aftermarket exists. Only a handful of domainers own significant numbers of such names.

But a lot more than that "handful of domainers" THINK they do, which is one of the reasons many are seeing a weakness in the market

 

[Brassneck]

But a lot more than that "handful of domainers" THINK they do, which is one of the reasons many are seeing a weakness in the market

I agree. However 2 or 3 years ago I think many people imagined that the aftermarket might properly encompass maybe the top 10 per cent of registered domains and I think that is what was driving the large number of reseller type sales on here and to some extent on domainlore.

Stephen.

 

[cc976a]

There were a few discussions on this last year - there are two types of domainer. The primary with a generic portfolio, and the secondary with a portfolio of names for the resell / passive income earning Market.

The bubble burst on the secondary Market as soon as Google penalised small affiliate / adsense based sites. They weren't necessarily complete crap - but never going to get the authority stamp needed today.

This meant buying a name for £100, adding a few pages overnight and making £50 a month within a week ( generating a 500% ROI in 12 months) a thing of the past. So hence those names rarely sell now - which us why we see the same names appearing again and again now.

Drop catching is really now down to a select few, and the only drops without catches are again for the secondary Market.

Those with a better selling skills to find, approach and sell to end users will fair a little better (I used to be a salesman so I know how hard it is selling to an audience that doesn't know or care - even though they should).

I've always been in the secondary area, I have no issue with that, but at the same time with a development and SEO background I was able to take a 1000% ROI on the overall domain investments made over the years (all declared - I have no secrets ) and learnt a lot in the process.

Really for the secondary Market it comes down to not only building content but getting those sites to rank, and show they can make regular 6months relatively passive income for a 12 month revenue return sale. It's tough to be in but development and ranking is the way to go.....just will take longer and with more effort per name!

 

[julian]

The truth is to realise the potential of any of those names probably means development - yes some work. As this forum is 90% full of lazy shits (sorry the world in general) people just can't be arsed..

I like budegetgifts not a bad name for lunching would you belive a budget gift website!

I am tempted to buy it but for it only to join the 1000+ dev list - even if you gave it to me for free it would probably never see the light if day therefore I tell myself I don't need it atm.

So its not that theres no value there just the 'wrong' time, wrong people - to the right person its worth £500+

I agree - there are deals all over the place and buyers maybe moving on.
Before I was good at gauging prices now I'm lost.

For something concrete let's take the 15 names (counting plurals) I mentioned above (all .co.uk's):

budgetgifts
studentpaintball
preventspam
royalforum(s)
celebrityscoop
specialbreak(s)
london365
londonouting(s)
procycles
ratesearch
sporttalk
studentpodcast

If these weren't mine and any one came up on DL/sedo then I really wouldn't be surprized to see it sell for £250 (some possibly a lot more).

But trying to sell some at xx is hard work and still no sale at the end of it!

Rob (or anyone else) what do you think the 15 names above are worth?

 

[Aiden Roberts]

What an interesting thread!

As a relative newbie it is this kind of thread that gives me hope, it is great to see the business of domaining so openly dissected and debated.

If I was looking for a quick buck then reading this discussion would certainly put me off entering the arena as once again I had missed the boat but 7 months ago now I took on board what I was reading, the advice I was given and made a point of learning the industry.

I have made all of the mistakes already mentioned an probably some more besides, I have no doubt I will make many more in the future but that doesn't really matter because what separates me from the "get rich quickers" is resolve, when I set out to achieve something I often do. The nuggets of information in this thread simply strengthen that resolve.

The world is in the middle of a downturn, why should domain names be immune?

Portfolios are being sold off cheap because they were top heavy in the first place, good names should be held onto until the market recovers or to develop as this will realise their true value.

The less people entering the industry because of a generalised pessimism the better, better for me at least as I will improve my portfolio at a lower cost.

I see me being in the right place at the right time, buyers market, get rich quick doors closed and as it's slow it gives me the time to develop my skills so I am ready with my sail up when the wind blows.

I like others have not been spoiled in the past, whatever I achieve will be as a result of effort, I will be mocked for some of my decisions (not bothered), I will win more battles than I lose and that's all that matters to me!

Good luck to all and I wish each and every one of you success whichever side of the fence you are on.

Aiden

 

[domainseller200]

I wouldn't say the market sucks at all - the main statement to take away from this 6 page thread is 'Good names will always sell regardless of the market'

As a domain trader, you just have to understand and work out what makes a good name and what doesn't - this has never changed and never will.

It is like I said back last year - Acorn is the car boot sale of the domain market, with the odd trader pushing out some quality names from time to time, but the majority are the same sellers, turning up week after week trying to sell the same stuff the other traders have seen week after week.

If you put Acorn domains into real world terms, it is like a bunch of butchers turning up day after day to the same place, with the same meat trying to sell it to each other and lowering their prices daily hoping ANOTHER butcher will buy it.

When the butcher turns up with the prime piece of fillet steak - everyone wants to buy it, as they rarely see it, but the majority can't afford it, but that butcher isn't too concerned as he knows he will have a number of restaurants contacting him to buy that fillet of steak - the only barrier then is the price

 

[foz]

Do I really want to spend an hour or two creating a short list of domains I'd like to buy from said list, value each of those names and shoot over an offer that makes it worth my while. Only to receive a reply (sometimes) stating that my offer is no where near acceptable.

Answer: No, I don't.

- Rob

Amen.

 

[woopwoop]

This really turned into a great thread.

I agree with a lot that's been said.

I also think the times 2005-2009 were too good to me: sitting back watching £xxx adsense income and £xxxx affiliate/link income. Now I'm working harder for a lot less.

Don't think my focus on selling the domains has changed (I never really worked at it!). But I am trying to sell off domains because it's a new year and I'll never get around to developing/selling most. My very recent focus has been to trim down to focus on a handful of decent sites.

All the dreams and ideas (for domains/businesses) are really an obstacle to making a single idea achieve success.

As for the market sucking, maybe it is only focused on the reseller market... but I think someone (in this thread or maybe another) talked about how difficult it is to convince an end user of something that is ultimately good for them.

 

[sdsinc]

My rules:

• don't become infatuated with your domains or you'll lose (I'm sure this is a real problem for many domain owners)
• do follow the reported sales, stay in touch with the market
• trim your portfolio and get rid of the non productive domains
• quality over quantity

To address post #1 I think some domains are okay, for example royalforum(s).
But most would have to be developed. Just because I see potential in them doesn't mean I would actually want to own them.
There is no shortage of 'okay' domains, but people prefer to buy great domains.

 

[woopwoop]

My rules:

• don't become infatuated with your domains or you'll lose (I'm sure this is a real problem for many domain owners)
• do follow the reported sales, stay in touch with the market
• trim your portfolio and get rid of the non productive domains
• quality over quantity

To address post #1 I think some domains are okay, for example royalforum(s).
But most would have to be developed. Just because I see potential in them doesn't mean I would actually want to own them.
There is no shortage of 'okay' domains, but people prefer to buy great domains.

I think your bullets nailed it.

RoyalForums had an offer of £150 but I lost it... It was that negotiation and another that led to my original post.

I was in a position where I had to fight to negotiate £200 (or whatever it was) for a domain where the negotiation was stuck at £100 and it was over a name I believed for the longest time was a mid-high xxx domain... just made me try to figure out if it was my sense of value (which had been pretty good to me in the past) or the market.

A few people made the point about good names selling themselves, which I agree with. Although I think the domains I mentioned are good (not great, just good, and they were probably reg fee when I bought them!), there used to be a market for these good-but-not-great names (but maybe it was propped by resellers/domainers who knock up quick sites (but not real end users).

The domains I have at Sedo auction right now are names that will probably sell for less than I want but have this huge desire to shed domains. Too much going on.

I think it's great that so many have shared their experience/take on it. Am going to read through it again and let it sink in.

 

[accelerator]

I wouldn't say the market sucks at all - the main statement to take away from this 6 page thread is 'Good names will always sell regardless of the market'

As a domain trader, you just have to understand and work out what makes a good name and what doesn't - this has never changed and never will.

It is like I said back last year - Acorn is the car boot sale of the domain market, with the odd trader pushing out some quality names from time to time, but the majority are the same sellers, turning up week after week trying to sell the same stuff the other traders have seen week after week.

If you put Acorn domains into real world terms, it is like a bunch of butchers turning up day after day to the same place, with the same meat trying to sell it to each other and lowering their prices daily hoping ANOTHER butcher will buy it.

When the butcher turns up with the prime piece of fillet steak - everyone wants to buy it, as they rarely see it, but the majority can't afford it, but that butcher isn't too concerned as he knows he will have a number of restaurants contacting him to buy that fillet of steak - the only barrier then is the price

A good analogy there. Acorn really is the car boot sale, but every now and again you'll find a gem at a car boot sale!!

Rgds