Nominet allowing Registers to retain UK domains ??

[Bailey]

A follow on discussion about (the apparent) intention to allow UK registers of domains to renew inhouse and retain.

Forgive me if I've missed much of any previous disscusion on this topic. But, this is would represent a massive change in the way the UK name space operates in the future.

Obviously big implications for catchers. But, I'm looking at the positive side of "registration services" with their massive budgets being able to bring a much higher profile to UK domain sales and an education to that particular UK problem of understanding the "resale" of domains.

I'd be interested to read others opinions and any time-line information that those more Nominet savvy can share.

 

[tifosi]

I'm still not sure how far that has gone yet. It's still consultation. But yes It would be a massive change in the terms and conditions.

As it is the 'contract' with Nominet is between the registrant & Nominet. The registrar is a facilitator/middleman. No more. And has no rights to the domain. Once the domain has not been renewed and goes through the due diligence of the renewal & suspension periods the contract is voided and the domain released.

The grey area is the 30days renewal and 60says suspension period where the proposed changes are, to effectively allow transferance of the contract to the Registrar at the one extreme, and at the other give them some control to auction off expired domains.

Either is IMO utterly detrimental to Nominets remit as the .uk controlling body. The only winners here are the big 2-3 registrars. Considering the control they have over voting rights it's an very dangerous proposal to Nominets autonomy. It makes the smoke and mirrors crap of a few years ago seem like a storm in a teacup.

I hope Nominets committee see just how detrimental this is and keep any control over expired domains firmly in-house.

S

 

[Edwin]

Not true. 123-Reg for a start have T&C right now that allow them to help themselves to expired domains (or sell them on) quite soon after expiry:
http://www.123-reg.co.uk/terms/expired-domains-terms.shtml

 

[seemly]

Not true. 123-Reg for a start have T&C right now that allow them to help themselves to expired domains (or sell them on) quite soon after expiry:
http://www.123-reg.co.uk/terms/expired-domains-terms.shtml

Out of interest, although this is clearly within 123-reg's T&C's, is it actually legally enforceable? Especially seeing as the domain name is registered to the user until the actual nominet date of expiry, rather than 123-reg's deemed date of expiry?

Also, what with the nature of the various issues people have mentioned with 123-reg services over the years, with a failure to remove domains from peoples accounts and charging them for renewals, etc, with regards to high value domain names, does anyone else think there could be a few instances of "coincidental" failure to auto-renew a domain name, thus said domain name then being the property of 123-reg?

 

[Edwin]

Also, what with the nature of the various issues people have mentioned with 123-reg services over the years, with a failure to remove domains from peoples accounts and charging them for renewals, etc, with regards to high value domain names, does anyone else think there could be a few instances of "coincidental" failure to auto-renew a domain name, thus said domain name then being the property of 123-reg?

This has long been a potential issue in the .com namespace. It will no doubt become more prevalent in .co.uk if more registrars set up processes for "hoarding" expired domains that were formerly registered to their customers.

NOTE 1: I am NOT saying that 123-Reg is the ONLY registrar doing so right now. I merely pointed to them as an example of a large registrar that I already was aware had the legalese in place to take over expired domains for its own benefit. An exhaustive list would require the checking of the T&C of every registrar!

NOTE 2: This illustrates just another of the many, many good reasons why anyone managing more than about 50 domains or with a collection of domains of high value should consider becoming a Nominet member and Registrar - that's the single safest arrangement possible after all as there is only ONE third party in the relationship (Nominet).

 

[tifosi]

Not true. 123-Reg for a start have T&C right now that allow them to help themselves to expired domains (or sell them on) quite soon after expiry:
http://www.123-reg.co.uk/terms/expired-domains-terms.shtml

But according to current Nominet T&C this is not currently allowed.

123-REG:

If we do not receive the renewal fee within the 16 day period stipulated above 123-reg may at its discretion terminate the agreement and change ownership of the requested domain

Nominet:

By registering a domain name ending in .uk (with some very limited exceptions), you enter into a contract of registration with us (Nominet UK)

I don't believe they currently have the legal authority to change the registrant details to their own company/representative. There are ways and means around this as certain tag holders have used especially with 123-REG, but that requires the 'authorisation' by the current registrant.

This I believe is the crux of the issue - to make this grey area legally allowable. And one I firmly oppose.

S

 

[Edwin]

You're right, it is a grey area with the loophole being which parts of Nominet's T&C still apply after the domain has expired (not many it looks like but I am not a lawyer so I am not going to list them here) but during which time the Registrar can still "fish it back" out of the expire-to-drop process.

Some registrars may believe that their own T&C can trump the "weakened" Nominet T&C during that timeframe...

 

[Bailey]

Thanks to those posting, particularly that link to 123-reg T&C, Edwin.

The big registrant services .Gtlds (Godaddy for one) have been doing this for years. so i'm quite use to the process in action. the common problem is the registrant services playing around with the time-line for taking control, ie, It might have been 20 days grace last week - well this week it's 10 days ("It's in the T & C's" would be the standard reply).

Certainly time to get .co.uk domain house in order.

So really under this new proposal - the registration services have just put themselves in the position of guaranteed catchers but, if they're not in a position to re-register the domain under their own chosen name as a Reselling service. then the domain would have to be disposed of in that 60 to 90 day time window. That seems to be a can of unnecessary worms

I was trying to envisage a more *respectable/acceptable front for the UK domain name reselling. As corporate Influence of reseller pricing may have helped become.

Anyway any more opinions ??


*(lose use of the word respectable)

 

[tifosi]

Though Nominet's methodology is to to work (at least in the registration of domains) through their Registrars / members, I just believe that allowing registrars any 'legal' control of domain registrant rights is opening a pandoras box and the top of a slippery slope to the top 2-3 registrars gaining a hedgemony of sorts.

I'm not opposed to Nominet bringing in new rules for expired domains, just that contractual obligations should firmly remain with the controlling body. If that means slapping a few registrar wrists which is I hope the purpose of this consultation then fine.

 

[anthony]

Nominet is nothing like the members based company established in 1996, any believe that the members have any real teeth anymore has gone completely out of the window. Seriously, is anyone really surprised at this latest development? The big boys now have what is left of any say in what happens, they are the remnants of the membership influence as was, but they do provide a broad based service which is probably what Nominet percieve as the principle of membership. Does the company really need any input from the rest of the membership? I doubt it, especially the dropcatching members, most of which only had self interest at heart. Unfortunately, some of the dropcatchers run things as a business, it's those who will suffer the most!

 

[sdsinc]

Not true. 123-Reg for a start have T&C right now that allow them to help themselves to expired domains (or sell them on) quite soon after expiry:
http://www.123-reg.co.uk/terms/expired-domains-terms.shtml

I guess that currently applies to gTLDs only, where the registrars have full control over the whois ?