.UK Announced

[DomainManagement]

Andy

Hi there Andy ,

When you say who's pulling the strings here , in which way

if you take the time and trouble to read the link provided

http://www.that.co.uk/nominet-member...net-files.html

if your assumption because some pulls in 5 k per week and has a obe
makes them innocent and non accountable

maybe you work at the bbc and did not want to rock the boat for jimmy saville too ??

Also if you're A domainer and don't like being called scum

i urge you all to let Mr Beale know you thoughts about being called such a name , but please be polite , and no swearing , [email protected]

i don't like being called or labelled as scum Do you !!!!!!!!!!!

Does anybody have any other evidence to nail this guy and the others that appear to run nominet not for the benefit of its members

 

[Edwin]

To sort out trademark issues , bring in £30 million. and shaft current co.uk owners.
why didn't they just say that.

I found it interesting how explicitly the 2004 document laid out the "benefits" and how so much of the suggestions in it have been shoehorned into the current proposal.

It's also interesting that the brand new site architecture has made nearly all of the 2,420 PDF documents on Nominet's site "vanish", including PAB statements, position papers, policy reviews and all sorts of other interesting documents.

 

[~andy]

Hi there Andy ,

When you say who's pulling the strings here , in which way

I just don't see why, in that enviable situation, you wouldn't just sit tight and keep the punters happy. I don't see what she has to gain from bringing this proposal to the table apart from a lot of hassle.

I don't have views beyond that right now. It just doesn't add at to me.

 

[Lovekraft]

Shouldn't the discussion on this be moved to this thread to avoid derailing the original topic?:

http://www.acorndomains.co.uk/nominet-general-information/109194-about-all-come-out.html

 

[markb]

site:nominet.org.uk filetypedf "uk revisited"

Thanks for the link Edwin, that was interesting reading, and I suppose if they go ahead that is how they will implement the rollout of the new extension.

Its not brilliant news for the owners of existing generic .co.uk domain names. Presuming people cannot trademark exact generic names, then the owners of businesses built around a generic .co.uk domain name, will have to compete against .org.uk, .me.uk domain owners to secure the relevant .uk domain name. Even if the .co.uk owners have spent thousands promoting their brand.

The .co.uk owners would usually have the deepest pockets to bid the highest but this is not always the case. Therefore could the owner of money.me.uk compete against the owners of money.co.uk to buy register for the domain money.uk ???? In this case, as money.me.uk has never been used would it default to the owner of money.co.uk as they use it? What if the owner of money.me.uk had the money to outbid the .co.uk owners, or nominet never even informed the owners of money.co.uk that the new domain was available to register?

It would work very well for large companies who have brandable domains and are trademark owners, but for the vast majority of everyone, its going to be a nightmare.

 

[martin-s]

Explains why a certain My Dyer on the Nominet forum is so keen on the proposal...

 

[websaway]

Thanks for the link Edwin, that was interesting reading, and I suppose if they go ahead that is how they will implement the rollout of the new extension.

Its not brilliant news for the owners of existing generic .co.uk domain names. Presuming people cannot trademark exact generic names, then the owners of businesses built around a generic .co.uk domain name, will have to compete against .org.uk, .me.uk domain owners to secure the relevant .uk domain name. Even if the .co.uk owners have spent thousands promoting their brand.

The .co.uk owners would usually have the deepest pockets to bid the highest but this is not always the case. Therefore could the owner of money.me.uk compete against the owners of money.co.uk to buy register for the domain money.uk ???? In this case, as money.me.uk has never been used would it default to the owner of money.co.uk as they use it? What if the owner of money.me.uk had the money to outbid the .co.uk owners, or nominet never even informed the owners of money.co.uk that the new domain was available to register?

It would work very well for large companies who have brandable domains and are trademark owners, but for the vast majority of everyone, its going to be a nightmare.

Am I reading the extract from that document ( below )correctly.

Quote "What little value there is in the existing structure is preserved and companies have the
choice as to whether to transition to the new shorter name or stick with the brand they
have created. They can choose the duration of any such transition over years if they wish."

It says "what little value there is in the existing structure" and yet they continued to sell names for 8 years.

 

[Edwin]

Explains why a certain My Dyer on the Nominet forum is so keen on the proposal...

Yes, absolutely! Worth mentioning over there, perhaps...

 

[Edwin]

Am I reading the extract from that document ( below )correctly.

Quote "What little value there is in the existing structure is preserved and companies have the
choice as to whether to transition to the new shorter name or stick with the brand they
have created. They can choose the duration of any such transition over years if they wish."

It says "what little value there is in the existing structure" and yet they continued to sell names for 8 years.

You are reading it correctly, but as far as I understand it the orginal document was more a commentary by one particular party than "policy".

Nevertheless, I found it very enlightening just how many of the ideas from that "commentary" made their way into the final document.

Also worth doing the sums for the potential 2012 windfall given that the back of the envelope math in 2004 came to £30 million against a much much smaller number of registered domains, and at a (likely) lower implicit cost/registration.

 

[foz]

Also worth doing the sums for the potential 2012 windfall given that the back of the envelope math in 2004 came to £30 million against a much much smaller number of registered domains, and at a (likely) lower implicit cost/registration.

No competing auction model either.

 

[Edwin]

Nominet sounds extraordinarily ambitious for a non-profit, public-interest company whose role is to make the UK domain system work smoothly, don't you think?
http://appointments.thesundaytimes.co.uk/job/421528/chief-commercial-officer

 

[Edwin]

No competing auction model either.

And no accounting for the costs to each business of rebranding (if they even manage to secure "their" .uk) - every single place their URL appears needs to be changed, and that will cost from £thousands for a very small company to £millions for a larger firm.

Multiply that by 4 million "actual" businesses on .co.uk (that's the approximate count based on Nominet's industry reports) and you're talking about many, many £billions in additional unnecessary costs.

I can see the launch of .UK elbowing out "New Coke" as the gold standard of marketing failures for generations to come.

 

[markb]

Some people at nominet may think domainers are scum, but I think the new .uk domains would be a positive thing for domainers but a bad thing for small businesses.

It looks like nominet are keen to get feedback from domainers but not interested in asking small business owners opinions. Otherwise they would have emailed domain owners to let them kno wwhta they are actually proposing.

When the .uk domains are released to the general public, domainers will have had lots of time to prepare and will be able to register the best .uk domain names quickly that havent already been registered by business owners. Would domainers be able to use a drop catching system to quickly register .uk domains as soon as they are released to the public?

 

[Edwin]

Some people at nominet may think domainers are scum, but I think the new .uk domains would be a positive thing for domainers but a bad thing for small businesses.

It looks like nominet are keen to get feedback from domainers but not interested in asking small business owners opinions. Otherwise they would have emailed domain owners to let them kno wwhta they are actually proposing.

When the .uk domains are released to the general public, domainers will have had lots of time to prepare and will be able to register the best .uk domain names quickly that havent already been registered by business owners. Would domainers be able to use a drop catching system to quickly register .uk domains as soon as they are released to the public?

There shouldn't be ANY decent names released to the general public.

If they are, it means the .co.uk owners got done over by the process.

Even if TM holders go first (which I am strongly against for previously-stated reasons) the process should allow .co.uk owners to register "their" equivalent .uk name.

Worst case, even if they have to fight any .org.uk registrants to do so, the domains will STILL get registered before the general public gets a look in.

Only in the most unfair possible situation (i.e. if Nominet deliberately sabotages the process against domain investors - something which, believe me, certain contingents within the wider Nominet membership would LOVE to see happen) will any decent names make it as far as the final general release stage.

So even if there was a thousand years to prepare, there's nothing to prepare for, as nothing of value will "drop" (i.e. be sitting around ready to register when General Availability starts).

That's also why anything Nominet says about this benefitting ordinary businesses is simply untrue (assuming they don't already have a .co.uk of course).

 

[markb]

I think nominet should as I goodwill gesture, allow the equivalant .co.uk domain owners to register the .uk domain free of charge for the first year. The domain should automatically be registered on behalf of the .co.uk owner.

This is because nominet have always said from the beginning that the .co.uk domain was the main one to have. Thats why the majority of business owners in the beginning when starting their websites, would have only ever have registered the .co.uk domain, which would then have allowed other people at a later date to grab the .org.uk and .me.uk domains.

This way it would proove that the whole idea wasnt a moeny making idea, but lets just see what they decide to do.

 

[Sound]

By charging £20 per year to register Nominet hope they will drive a lot of large portfolio owners out of business how many have the £20,000 per year needed for every thousand names they own.

Its also looking more likely that Nominet will come under some form of government control to mop up the extra revenue this new venture will make.

I also don't believe Nominet will allow drop catching to continue with the new release so ending the monster that they created in the first place.

They are never going to allow the current owners to have grandfather rights as they are looking for change.

Nominet has disliked domain portfolio owners from the very beginning why are people now so suddenly surprised?

 

[Bailey]

Indeed Sound

All this speculating about what and what may not be allowed at the release stage (and rules of registration later), is getting us nowhere. The proposal is directed at closing the door on domainers in the UK space , as much as about new revenue

 

[websaway]

We all like to see industries rejuvenated with more revenue created and distributed, in these times of austerity new initiatives would be welcomed by many.

But not in this way, this is simply a case of product churning.

 

[anthony]

...I also don't believe Nominet will allow drop catching to continue with the new release so ending the monster that they created in the first place.

They are never going to allow the current owners to have grandfather rights as they are looking for change.

Nominet has disliked domain portfolio owners from the very beginning why are people now so suddenly surprised?

I agree with your obs there Sound. Whatever the feelings are here, the membership have given away much of their influence by not being more vocal at key moments in the past, and have relinquished their powers as a result. I do wonder whether it's possible for some to see the different level of 'wrong' between rolling out the .uk for example, or senior staff and board members collectively using private email addresses to avoid discovery of conversations with government ministers. The latter you can get your teeth into and do something about, whereas the former you can't.

I've been saying from the start of this .uk proposal, arguing for grandfather rights is the logic of gagaland, there are no legal rights to be given these. Self interest and greed often cloud's good judgement!

 

[Bailey]

Yes, Nice to see some realistic talk.

Anybody that thinks this is going to be a late opportunity to enter into domaining, is going to be sadly dissapointed.

Thats not to say there won't be loopholes - Of course they will be there and found, but, I believe Nominet or who ever holds the strings will be looking to close those doors as soon as they're exposed. Don't be suprised to find some sort of revocation clause in the registration agreement as well