20i Domains

UK whois protection

Discussion in 'Nominet General Information' started by Whois-Search, Jun 17, 2006.

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  1. Jac

    Jac Active Member

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    olebean

    Get over yourself mate! I was simply pointing out that you and every other body on this forum know how to contact Jay Daley. He has made no secret of the fact he works for Nominet or how he can be contacted. I was not referring to him as a registrant of a domain name but if he does own domain names which are being used for business purposes; as in the quest for profit; then I would expect to see a contact address on the whois.

    Geez... what do you want? Total exemption from every rule that applies to everyone else in life? Go speak to your M.P.

    Not letting me or Nominet know who to expect tomorrow is IMO just plain bad manners. You are, by the way, in a minority of 5 to 1 on that score. Like I said, get over yourself. ;)

    Regards
    James Conaghan
     
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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    articles.co.uk
     
  3. olebean

    olebean Well-Known Member

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    James

    "Always the same" too true, some of use like to ensure what is occurring at ground level on operational processes and decisions is transmitted to the wider community... Its nice to see you take it so well!

    Oh dear "if the domain name was earning".... The domain name doesn't necessarily have to generate or earn money for the registrant.

    As was said in another post:

    I reg a domain, for a childrens football team, I pay (on a charitable basis) the hosting fees, a friend creates the site. Nominet refuses to allow me to opt out.

    In your case James, considering your domain is in conection with activity whereby you recieve funds albeit expenses you should have less right to opt out
     
  4. olebean

    olebean Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear James

    Sometimes you just cannot lead blind horses to water......

    Firstly the use of Jay was an "analogy" and in no way meant to impart that Jay had done anything untoward I am aware of. If you read my comments you would have noted that..... Well done for missing it!


    Secondly Nominet know I am coming.
     
  5. Jac

    Jac Active Member

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    You may be right; it isn't fair; but in general, you don't get punished for breaking a rule, you get punished for being caught breaking it. If someone decides to complain about rule breaking are they wrong to do so? Maybe they aren't being fair, but they aren't wrong either, because (as I keep saying) rules apply to everyone equally, even me. There are legitimate reasons why the whois is as it is.

    There are also legitimate reasons why these things may have to be done faster than a month.

    Here is a story another Nominet member posted on nom-steer today. He gave me his permission to use it. I quote it verbatim.

    Not suggesting at all that anyone on this forum is up to criminal shennanigans, but the above story is another reason why the 'powers that be' want to see Nominet maintain a correctly opted-in whois.

    Regards
    James Conaghan
     
  6. Whois-Search

    Whois-Search Retired Member

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    As an UK individual who opted-out I could host anything I like on the domain name ? Warez and Pr0n..........

    Therefore the "rule" should apply to the domain name and not what is hosted on it! Which the ISP is responsible for not Nominet.
     
  7. Jac

    Jac Active Member

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    olebean

    I will repeat verbatim what I have just said to Whois-Search on nom-steer. I have nothing to hide and I am more than happy to make my viewpoints public.

    Sorry if that pisses some of you off, but I figure what's good enough for you is good enough for me. ;)

    Regards
    James Conaghan
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2006
  8. Whois-Search

    Whois-Search Retired Member

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    And I will repeat what I put:

    Sometimes people like the PAB won't see past the term "user registrants"
    unless you give examples which are often personal i.e. "how would you like
    it if it happened to you".

    On here (Nom-Steer) people will either dismiss it or make some pedantic comment.

    I was merely asking how clear the whois opt-out rule is and why is it
    abused.
     
  9. sneezycheese

    sneezycheese Active Member

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    ...I don't think anyone is disagreeing with what you've just said, that's the point - Having a 'Correctly Opted In' Whois DB - That's the issue that has been raised.

    Out of interest; what 'formal tests' does Nominet apply to opt someone back in?
     
  10. Jac

    Jac Active Member

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    The Terms and Conditions pre-define "consumer".

    ‘consumer' – You are a consumer if you are an individual not registering, using or planning to use the domain name as part of a business, trade or profession.

    You cannot be a consumer if you are dealing in warez or porn. IMO it does not equate.

    Regards
    James Conaghan
     
  11. Whois-Search

    Whois-Search Retired Member

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    Ahh we are back to that term "consumer"

    [​IMG]
     
  12. olebean

    olebean Well-Known Member

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    Exactly!

    If You

    Oh, with regards to personal names, again I repeat it, Nominet will not allow opt out for "very personal" domain names, which are childrens names
     
  13. sneezycheese

    sneezycheese Active Member

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    ...Funny you should mention that, as I've put in a formal complaint to have Nominet's Crystal Mark rescinded.

    PM me if anyone feels the need to join in. ;)
     
  14. olebean

    olebean Well-Known Member

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    Totally spurious arguement, data protection act allows criminal activity to be reported etc
     
  15. Jac

    Jac Active Member

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    A user registrant to me is a person who registers a domain name for use in personal or business capacity. It could be an individual, a sole trader or a company or corporation. In the latter two examples, the company is the user registrant or more correctly, the end user registrant. If someone owns 10,000 domain names and points them all at PPC sites and makes loadsa dosh out of doing so, then I do not personally regard them as an end user registrant. They are a domainer.

    The whois opt-out is enshrined in 11.2 of the Terms and Conditions: "For these purposes we will publish your name and (unless you are a consumer and choose to opt out) your address, but not your phone or fax number or e-mail address" and "you are a consumer if you are an individual not registering, using or planning to use the domain name as part of a business, trade or profession".

    I will be blunt and say I don't know if this is clear enough or not but there seems to be only a sub-set of registrants complaning about it. Why don't you raise it as a question at the Nominet/Acorn meeting tomorrow?

    Regards
    James Conaghan
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2006
  16. Jac

    Jac Active Member

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    If I suggested you had to keep breathing to stay alive, you'd probably hold your breath whilst protesting it was a spurious argument. Good grief man, do you ever allow for the possibility (small as you may think it is) that you just might be wrong in something?

    Regards
    James Conagham
     
  17. Jac

    Jac Active Member

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    As I do not know the children's names you refer to, or in what context you are registering them, I cannot offer any guidance. If you are at Nominet tomorrow, I assume you will be raising this as an issue? If you are right in your contentions, I will be the first to support you.

    Regards
    James Conaghan
     
  18. olebean

    olebean Well-Known Member

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    Considering what I have read, it appears Nominet never really wanted to apply data protection principle to whois in the first place..... I am loathed to debate issues "that type" of "personal nature" with them....
     
  19. olebean

    olebean Well-Known Member

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    James

    Not when an arguement is so seriously fawed....
     
  20. Jac

    Jac Active Member

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    Erm... olebean did.

    Unless all registrants are truthful at the time of registration, you will probably never have a correctly opted in whois. If we want Nominet to police every single registration, this will inevitably result in delays to all registrations and I would suggest add to the cost per domain name. The only sensible way seems to be for Nominet to act when it notices something is wrong, or when a breach of the opt-out is pointed out to them.

    On a side note, it may well be that registrants (in general) do not necessarily understand what is expected of them when registering a domain name, and this is something that is part of the communications drive I hope to see Nominet embark on shortly.

    That said, there will always be someone intentionally abusing the system and that applies to any system.

    Regards
    James Conaghan
     
  21. Hazel Pegg

    Hazel Pegg Active Member

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    What does 'very personal' mean?

    My kids own domain names and they are opted out of the WHOIS.

    I don't think that I (they) are breaking the rules.

    Hazel
     
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