A story about a domain

[woopwoop]

Here's a story about a domain.

(A few months have gone by but the topic came up when speaking with a mate and I'm still hung up on it).

I was after a domain that was owned by a company (who became the new owners when they bought another company). They weren't using it and it didn't seem that they ever would. The name had personal value to me and so I tried for years to get it from the company.

Each time they said they'd get back to me, followed shortly by an email saying the business unit said it wasn't for sale. Then I noticed the domain had expired. The company said that they wouldn't sell. I watched as the status of the domain changed to "no longer needed" and wondered what was happening and why wouldn't they sell but it looks like they are going to throw it away?!

I then noticed that there was a new owner. I was gutted. I really wanted to make an offer at least have a fair chance to buy it.

So I contacted them and they said that it was a mistake and that they let it expire by mistake?! But the domain had only been in expired/no longer needed status for a few weeks... From what I had seen through my whois checks (later confirmed by Nominet) the domain had been transferred from the old owners to the new.

But why wouldn't they give me the chance to make an offer?
And why would they tell me they hadn't sold it - but it had expired by mistake?

I contacted the new owner (who is a member on here) and he said that he acquired it from the old owners.

I asked if he could disclose how much (if he paid £10,000 then I could forget about it and move on - above my price). He told me to mind my own business...

I pressed for info and after emails back and forth with the new owner about the strangeness of the old owners telling me that it wasn't sold - the new owner told me to check his earlier emails where he hadn't said that he paid for it, he pointed me to how he said he had "acquired it from them", now suggesting hadn't paid?!

The story now got more cryptic! Who gives away a valuable domain and says that they let it expire.


I may be a sore loser. I am definitely still hung up on this domain months after because of how hard I tried to get it and the strange circumstances and emails from both the old owner and the new owner.

The old owner is a PLC so if it was a sale then wouldn't it be on the books somewhere? I hate mysteries.

 

[wb]

Do the correct people at the company (previous registrant) actually know it has been transferred away from them?

It could be that the company you have been speaking with didn't want to sell it, but someone with access to the domain has given it away or taken payment for it. Obviously that is pure speculation as I don't know the domain or specific details, but there isn't really a reason why they should want to give it away if you have been offering to buy it off them.

 

[woopwoop]

The person I was speaking to (original owner) was in the patents and trademarks division. Because I had been going after this name for years - I remember dealing with the person's predecessor (I believe). That person left and I had been emailing the new patents person a few times over the last 12 months. They said they'd check if it was for sale, later emailing me to say the relevant business department said it's not for sale.

I cannot believe that they would have given this away. So strange but they haven't replied to my last emails - now sent months ago.

 

[wb]

I highly doubt it's anything sinister, it will probably be just being in the right place at the right time and speaking to the right person. If one person says no, they may not be the only person who has authority to transfer it (e.g. you could have gone higher than the intellectual property department, how about straight to a director?).

Edit: Also, being "acquired" doesn't necessarily mean that it has been obtained at no cost; there could have been a strong offer made for it to secure a sale. Only the current/previous registrants will know the details and that information is personal to them.

 

[woopwoop]

I'm not trying to out this person. Just want to get over this whole thing - I hate mysteries and I am a sore loser.

I just re-read the emails and he didn't say 'acquire' here are the quotes:
XXXXXXX was not renewed before I received it i.e. it was
transferred still expired, so it is correct that the original owners
did not renew it.

Followed by:
You need to re-read my emails *carefully*, as I *never* said that
XXXXXXX was "sold"!

 

[wb]

That doesn't confirm whether it was or wasn't sold, it simply states they haven't told you.

 

[philiporchard]

Quite a few times I've tried to buy a domain and may push for years... then along comes someone else, and bang, it disappears from under your nose... Sometimes it is a case of the right person at the right time, sometimes they push a little harder for it.

I've learnt the hard way that once it's gone - it's gone!

 

[bensd]

From what you have said there is not much you can do about it!

Have you tried making an offer to the new owner?

 

[Edwin]

The person was me.

Every step was 100% professional and above board. Emphasis on the professional - that's almost certainly the key that unlocked this deal for me. I found the right people within the PLC, made the right arrangement (which involved neither a renewal nor a sale, strictly speaking), and received the domain name.

I am certain it's no surprise to most people why I was less than forthcoming when the original poster started bombarding me with questions: details of this transaction, like any other deal I strike, are confidential and none of anyone's business, let alone somebody subjecting me to a shrill inquisition by email.

What's with posting my confidential emails, btw?

 

[retired_member16]

Can't see a problem here myself.

One winner, one loser.

Move on and move on up.

 

[suzi]

made the right arrangement (which involved neither a renewal nor a sale, strictly speaking)

Maybe a swap or services, rather than cash.

 

[diablo]

The person I was speaking to (original owner) was in the patents and trademarks division. Because I had been going after this name for years - I remember dealing with the person's predecessor (I believe). That person left and I had been emailing the new patents person a few times over the last 12 months. They said they'd check if it was for sale, later emailing me to say the relevant business department said it's not for sale.

I cannot believe that they would have given this away. So strange but they haven't replied to my last emails - now sent months ago.

I think the key here is that you were talking to the wrong people throughout. You should have gone directly to the relevant business department - which I assume Edwin did.

Incidentally, Edwin's one of the most professional people in the UK domain market. His reputation is second to none too.

Lesson learned, you just need to move on.

 

[brum]

have to agree edwin's rep is second to none .

in most large companies it's a case of finding who has responsibility and the authority to make the sale.

selling assets like domains will not be anyone job role , the patents departments would be there to help patent and trademark thier IP and enforce that. they will not have the authority to sell .

the only way you are likely to get the domain is if they want something from you. edwin has a large portfolio it may be likely that they wanted one of his domains and just did a swap, it is also most likely that they would have made him sign a non disclosure document , this is common practise with large PLC.

it's just a case of understanding how a big company works . they just have no reason , and no interest in a few 1000 pounds it makes no difference in thier turnover. and more importantly beacuse of the controls most will hvae in the disposal of assets it would need to be approved much higher up. so they simply will not do it .

the only time this is different is if 1 they are reviewing thier assets and have a team disposssing of no longer need ones .

2 they want somthing from you and you ask for it as part of the deal.

i hope that helps it is just the way big companies work.

 

[disruptive]

I find dealing with "employee's" is never good. Many have no vested interest in doing anything other than the least possible amount of work. What do they get out of it other than a headache...and more work?

 

[Aegean]

Brum said: it's just a case of understanding how a big company works . they just have no reason , and no interest in a few 1000 pounds it makes no difference in thier turnover.

Basically Brum has hit the nail on the head. I work as head of online development for a large company now with over 750 employees and 8 large offices throughout Greece, Cyprus and Turkey. Before this I spent over 10 years as a professional strategy consultant to many big companies.

The problem here seems to be woopwoop taking this personally. Whilst I completely sympathise with how he feels, I have to agree with Brum's comments. It's just how big companies work, it isn't personal and nothing should ever be taken as personal.

It's a difficult job to speak to the right people when you're dealing with a large company, never mind actually get hold of someone who has the real authority to make a decision. Manys a hopeful deal has been scuppered by some lower tier manager. I know woopwoop feels this has been a little unjust, but that experience will serve him very well the next time he has dealings with a corporation.

 

[Edwin]

For a bit of context, this was relating to a FTSE100 company i.e. a company with £billions in turnover a year and many thousands of employees across many divisions in the UK and around the world. It's a company of the kind of size that I seriously doubt the people I dealt with had even heard of the people the original poster had been trying to dialogue with!

The most disturbing part was - and remains - the original poster's repeated assertions to me by email (confirmed in his initial post to this thread) that he was still trying to pursue it with the old owners AFTER my transaction had concluded.

That's just embarrassing! I arrange a professional deal with very senior people, and some unrelated third party then starts potentially hounding my counterpart in the deal about it, an action which can only backfire on ME (the third party has no stake as the deal's done and was never "theirs" to lose) as it could make the people I dealt with start to doubt my own professionalism.

So I will say to the original poster publicly what I said to him by email in various ways at least 5 times: This deal is done. Finished. Above board. And none of your business. So let it go.

 

[retired_member27]

Totally agree with what Edwin say's.

In my experience with buying domains from large companies, you should never speak to unknown employees first, always write a professional letter directly addressed to the finance director and always include lots of 0's in the offer price, if he's interested he will then put you in touch with the right person who will then make the deal happen.

It would seem the OP was speaking continually to the wrong people, some you win some you loss, just forget it and move on.

 

[retired_member16]

Totally agree with what Edwin say's.

In my experience with buying domains from large companies, you should never speak to unknown employees first, always write a professional letter directly addressed to the finance director and always include lots of 0's in the offer price, if he's interested he will then put you in touch with the right person who will then make the deal happen.

It would seem the OP was speaking continually to the wrong people, some you win some you loss, just forget it and move on.

I wouldnt agree with all of that. You dont have to pay four figures, heck you dont even need to pay three figures if you dont want to. Its knowing what to say to who and from whom.

 

[retired_member32]

If the domain was registered under a Company ,firstly was the Company under a CVL liquidation order Administration order(served) or bankruptcy,or struggling (companies house register) ,if so you could ask the LLP for a breakdown,when the company has served time it should be published on the companies house register (i think its a quid to download) and dont forget if the assets was not sold for market value then you could have it reversed (i have done this many times) if it is a simple company to company transfer then they could tell you to f**k off...because they don't have to tell you anything...

 

[woopwoop]

... made the right arrangement (which involved neither a renewal nor a sale, strictly speaking), and received the domain name.

Edwin - you can see why I may have questions after a long slog to try and get this name and the circumstances in which it traded hands (your comments in email and their comments do not match up - they said they let it expire and someone else re-registered it!)

Maybe a swap or services, rather than cash.

Maybe. But they had told me it expired and someone else re-registered it.

It's a company of the kind of size that I seriously doubt the people I dealt with had even heard of the people the original poster had been trying to dialogue with!

The most disturbing part was - and remains - the original poster's repeated assertions to me by email (confirmed in his initial post to this thread) that he was still trying to pursue it with the old owners AFTER my transaction had concluded.

That's just embarrassing! I arrange a professional deal with very senior people, and some unrelated third party then starts potentially hounding my counterpart in the deal about it, an action which can only backfire on ME (the third party has no stake as the deal's done and was never "theirs" to lose) as it could make the people I dealt with start to doubt my own professionalism.

Edwin - this thread is helping me let it go, thanks.

But I have the right to contact the people at the company and say why did you tell me something that wasn't true? It wasn't expired and then re-registered - it was transferred. That's my right. You may feel it's embarrassing but I have a right to ask questions when the situation raises a lot of questions.

You say that it's disturbing me contacting them after the deal - but what is disturbing is the fact that this is a PLC (which should be acting in the best interest of its shareholders), not giving all potential buyers of one of its assets a chance to make an offer (maybe bad communication within the business or incompetence).

Maybe by me contacting them they can investigate why I was given the wrong information by the people I dealt with and not allowed the opportunity to make an offer.

Who wants to move on from a losing situation without learning a lesson?