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Current feeling on value of hyphenated .co.uk vs .org.uk?
- Thread starter Edwin
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To my mind, the moment you mention "Commercial" takes .org.uk out of the circle (whatever the available options are)
Thats not to say '.org.uk' isn't workable or even applicable to a "Commercial" term but you can't give it that 'blanket-tag' EVER
If you go back to the early days of the internet (pre 1995 say) It's quite amazing how popular hyphens where as the natural, first-choice term.
I would've thought someone with your mind Edwin, wouldn't see either as hyphens or .org.uks as viable alternatives. Same goes for .UK's as opposed to .COM. (unless your targeting)
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Personally I'm not too keen on hyphenated or org domains, it would be .co.uk all the way.
I've only ever owned 1 .org.uk and thats "homes.org.uk", the only reason I got it is because the .co.uk couldnt realistically be bought for sensible money.
Im not too keen on building a commercial site around it though, probably just use it for an information site.
I've only ever owned 1 .org.uk and thats "homes.org.uk", the only reason I got it is because the .co.uk couldnt realistically be bought for sensible money.
Im not too keen on building a commercial site around it though, probably just use it for an information site.
hyphens v org.uk
It is interesting that Edwin started this post now as personally I think that it is about time for the domain industry to take a lot more notice of the hyphen and I would say that the hyphen will ultimately beat the org.uk hands down.
One of the reasons that there may not have been that many hyphenated sales in 2011 is because for some reason the domain industry in the UK does not appear to have embraced them yet (very different in Germany) but my personal opinion is that the domain industry is quite probably going down the wrong alley with org.uk’s and that eventually the hyphen will supersede. I would even go as far as suggesting that one day there will be little difference between the value of hyphenated and non-hyphenated co.uk’s. How far off we are from that I wouldn’t like to hazard a guess but when it happens I think it will be quite a swift progression by the hyphen.
I am an SEO specialist with extensive digital marketing experience within a commercial environment. The reason that I think the hyphen is much stronger than org.uk is primarily because I believe it will be difficult to sway marketing departments, developers and end user businesses who are essentially “the buyers” from the belief that co.uk and .com names (and perhaps .net) are the way to go when building a large site or a brand. There will always be people that go against the grain but I think that these suffixes are heavily cemented in the minds of most buyers as being the suffixes to use and I think it will be difficult to change this view. In addition the .Org ending still has certain connotations that may put people off buying it and Org.uk may be tarnished by this. Also although I have not tested the theory, instinctively I think that it is possible that org.uk may not be as good from an SEO perspective as co.uk names and if this theory becomes proven then it will lower their value as time goes on.
I do not believe there is any difference in the potential of a hyphen verses a non hyphen from an SEO perspective or an exact match perspective and in the past I have done tests to verify my opinion and there are various articles with the same view on the web. I think that they are equal runners and to add to this there is one SEO school of thought that says the hyphen could be better as the search engines may read the hyphen as word separators. The difference in potential between the hyphen and non-hyphenated version of the name in SEO terms comes from other factors such as the age of the domain which is a very important factor (i.e. the older the better) alongside the attributes of the site that is developed beneath the domain.
It is interesting that Edwin started this post now as personally I think that it is about time for the domain industry to take a lot more notice of the hyphen and I would say that the hyphen will ultimately beat the org.uk hands down.
One of the reasons that there may not have been that many hyphenated sales in 2011 is because for some reason the domain industry in the UK does not appear to have embraced them yet (very different in Germany) but my personal opinion is that the domain industry is quite probably going down the wrong alley with org.uk’s and that eventually the hyphen will supersede. I would even go as far as suggesting that one day there will be little difference between the value of hyphenated and non-hyphenated co.uk’s. How far off we are from that I wouldn’t like to hazard a guess but when it happens I think it will be quite a swift progression by the hyphen.
I am an SEO specialist with extensive digital marketing experience within a commercial environment. The reason that I think the hyphen is much stronger than org.uk is primarily because I believe it will be difficult to sway marketing departments, developers and end user businesses who are essentially “the buyers” from the belief that co.uk and .com names (and perhaps .net) are the way to go when building a large site or a brand. There will always be people that go against the grain but I think that these suffixes are heavily cemented in the minds of most buyers as being the suffixes to use and I think it will be difficult to change this view. In addition the .Org ending still has certain connotations that may put people off buying it and Org.uk may be tarnished by this. Also although I have not tested the theory, instinctively I think that it is possible that org.uk may not be as good from an SEO perspective as co.uk names and if this theory becomes proven then it will lower their value as time goes on.
I do not believe there is any difference in the potential of a hyphen verses a non hyphen from an SEO perspective or an exact match perspective and in the past I have done tests to verify my opinion and there are various articles with the same view on the web. I think that they are equal runners and to add to this there is one SEO school of thought that says the hyphen could be better as the search engines may read the hyphen as word separators. The difference in potential between the hyphen and non-hyphenated version of the name in SEO terms comes from other factors such as the age of the domain which is a very important factor (i.e. the older the better) alongside the attributes of the site that is developed beneath the domain.
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Thats a pretty good summary from an seo point of view domsaleuk. Unfortunately your missing one vital ingredient (lets call it Evolution) of the domain namespace.
Evolution isn't always down to best-fit,or even best outcome.It comes down to Quirks in history, and all sorts of one-off-events. hyphens have their place in certain types of advertising media and in certain circumstances can even work better as a string. But, No they are not going to replace none hyphenated domains as first choice (in general or even come close) there's more chance of the Wheel being reinvented.
Your comment about the German market is well understood. The mitigating factors your missing are.
1. The bouancy and therefore general avalibility on the German market for .de terms
2. the market squeeze due to ,de not having its second level as in ..UK domains
3. Their use of grammar
Evolution isn't always down to best-fit,or even best outcome.It comes down to Quirks in history, and all sorts of one-off-events. hyphens have their place in certain types of advertising media and in certain circumstances can even work better as a string. But, No they are not going to replace none hyphenated domains as first choice (in general or even come close) there's more chance of the Wheel being reinvented.
Your comment about the German market is well understood. The mitigating factors your missing are.
1. The bouancy and therefore general avalibility on the German market for .de terms
2. the market squeeze due to ,de not having its second level as in ..UK domains
3. Their use of grammar
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hyphenated .co.uk over .org.uk for me
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How that reads to me is you have probably worked in some overpriced or massively inefficient agency working on typical boring "brand" clients with a set doctrine of how SEO should work and never deviated from it.
You dont have to be an SEO specialist to know .org.uk SEO just as well as anything else out there. .com, .net, .org, .co.uk
Just go to that thing called Google and start punching in commercial terms across many niches and open your eyes.
Step out of the matirx...welcome to the real world
Hyphen V Org.uk
Hi,
With regard to the comments to my post – I agree with the points that Bailey makes about the German market and that there are differences that influence the fact that hyphens are strong there but I still think that when more and more commercial businesses in the UK start buying into generic domains that the org.uk will lose out to the hyphen. In fact I think it comes down to the buoyancy of the market and general availability as Bailey outlined. I just don’t think we have even taken off yet here in the UK in terms of “end user buyers” purchasing generics. When we do take off and things start rising in terms of domain purchases I do not believe that generally the end user buyers will deviate from co.uk, com (or maybe .net). My view is that the barriers to entry that there will be with the non-hyphenated versions will lead to a lack of availability and this is why at some point in the not too distant future I think we will see the hyphen market become big in the UK much like it has in Germany. Once this happens then I think the value and appeal of the org.uk domain suffix will decline in domain circles and my personal view is that savvy domain investors should therefore take more notice of the hyphen now.
Secondly I just want to clarify that I did not say the hyphen will ever overtake non-hyphenated. I don't believe this to be the case for a moment and would be foolish to suggest it – I just stand by the fact that I think the hyphen will become the secondary runner as I am personally confident that this will happen. As development of generic domains becomes more apparent and it is seen that hyphens generate similar levels of natural traffic to non hyphens and more and more companies utilise hyphens in their offline advertising then I do however believe that we will see the gap closing dramatically between the value or sales price of the two types of name.
In response to JMOTS comments – you couldn’t be further from the truth in terms of the type of experience I have! I do not need to extend suffice to say that my knowledge and experience of SEO and digital marketing is vast and spans over a decade. The points I made were simply some thoughts on the matter that I stand by. You will note that I said I have not tested the theory about org.uk which is not surprising because I have never worked on this suffix . However for various reasons I still instinctively think that co.uk and .com and other top level domains may well carry more power in SEO terms but as I said until proven I could not verify this theory. I don’t want to be impolite so I will just say... it is all very well saying “go to that thing called Google and start punching in commercial terms”. This is fine when you are looking at smaller sites – my view is that it could be a very different kettle of fish when you are developing from scratch or working on the development of extremely large sites that you are building to produce hundreds of thousands of unique users a month.
Hi,
With regard to the comments to my post – I agree with the points that Bailey makes about the German market and that there are differences that influence the fact that hyphens are strong there but I still think that when more and more commercial businesses in the UK start buying into generic domains that the org.uk will lose out to the hyphen. In fact I think it comes down to the buoyancy of the market and general availability as Bailey outlined. I just don’t think we have even taken off yet here in the UK in terms of “end user buyers” purchasing generics. When we do take off and things start rising in terms of domain purchases I do not believe that generally the end user buyers will deviate from co.uk, com (or maybe .net). My view is that the barriers to entry that there will be with the non-hyphenated versions will lead to a lack of availability and this is why at some point in the not too distant future I think we will see the hyphen market become big in the UK much like it has in Germany. Once this happens then I think the value and appeal of the org.uk domain suffix will decline in domain circles and my personal view is that savvy domain investors should therefore take more notice of the hyphen now.
Secondly I just want to clarify that I did not say the hyphen will ever overtake non-hyphenated. I don't believe this to be the case for a moment and would be foolish to suggest it – I just stand by the fact that I think the hyphen will become the secondary runner as I am personally confident that this will happen. As development of generic domains becomes more apparent and it is seen that hyphens generate similar levels of natural traffic to non hyphens and more and more companies utilise hyphens in their offline advertising then I do however believe that we will see the gap closing dramatically between the value or sales price of the two types of name.
In response to JMOTS comments – you couldn’t be further from the truth in terms of the type of experience I have! I do not need to extend suffice to say that my knowledge and experience of SEO and digital marketing is vast and spans over a decade. The points I made were simply some thoughts on the matter that I stand by. You will note that I said I have not tested the theory about org.uk which is not surprising because I have never worked on this suffix . However for various reasons I still instinctively think that co.uk and .com and other top level domains may well carry more power in SEO terms but as I said until proven I could not verify this theory. I don’t want to be impolite so I will just say... it is all very well saying “go to that thing called Google and start punching in commercial terms”. This is fine when you are looking at smaller sites – my view is that it could be a very different kettle of fish when you are developing from scratch or working on the development of extremely large sites that you are building to produce hundreds of thousands of unique users a month.
Org.uk fine for self development and maybe seo but trying to sell to end user I'd go co'uk hyphen over them all day
Last few months Ive seen
Die-Lottozahlen Holz-Spielzeug Buesum-Ferienwohnungen Baby-Box Trainer-Vermittlung
Klima-Häuser Günstige-Stromanbieter Nordic-Walking Cover-Online Meeting-Place
Ostsee-Vermittlung Tablet-Vergleich
Wouldn’t say thats more than uk market ?
Been selling .de over ten years never really noticed anymore sales than the uk for "-" What exactly you basing that on? Do you have figures, reports etc Love to have a look at them...
Last few months Ive seen
Die-Lottozahlen Holz-Spielzeug Buesum-Ferienwohnungen Baby-Box Trainer-Vermittlung
Klima-Häuser Günstige-Stromanbieter Nordic-Walking Cover-Online Meeting-Place
Ostsee-Vermittlung Tablet-Vergleich
Wouldn’t say thats more than uk market ?
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Hyphen v Org.uk
Hi,
I originally recall finding out about this when I was speaking to someone very high up at Sedo and due to their position I took it that what I was being told was correct. The point is however made here in this article by Ron Jackson - http://www.dnjournal.com/archive/domainsales/2009/20090923.htm - another source that I would use for reliable information on domain industry sales.
The German market seems to be busier than the UK market generally which is displayed in the fact that 3 times more .de sales were made by Sedo last year than co.uk's according to their 2011 report but this is one of the points I am making - i.e. when things reach this level in the UK in terms of sales I think end users will be buying a lot more hyphens here too.
I have not looked for any actual reports on German hyphen sales but if I come across any I will post info and maybe others will also
Hi,
I originally recall finding out about this when I was speaking to someone very high up at Sedo and due to their position I took it that what I was being told was correct. The point is however made here in this article by Ron Jackson - http://www.dnjournal.com/archive/domainsales/2009/20090923.htm - another source that I would use for reliable information on domain industry sales.
The German market seems to be busier than the UK market generally which is displayed in the fact that 3 times more .de sales were made by Sedo last year than co.uk's according to their 2011 report but this is one of the points I am making - i.e. when things reach this level in the UK in terms of sales I think end users will be buying a lot more hyphens here too.
I have not looked for any actual reports on German hyphen sales but if I come across any I will post info and maybe others will also
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I was told by somebody at the TRAFFIC conference in Amsterdam that .de domains with hyphens are used just as much as those without. And that's backed up by this comment "In an interesting tidbit about Germany's wildly popular .de extension, DENIC's CEO Sabine Dolderer said 50% of all .de domains have hyphens in them!" made at the same conference.
http://www.dnjournal.com/cover/2009/june.htm
http://www.dnjournal.com/cover/2009/june.htm
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