Heart Internet Domains

[cm1975]

I've mentioned Heart Internet before regarding their domain references, but have struck upon another more serious issue with them.

My previous post is here - http://www.acorndomains.co.uk/domain-name-registrars/120689-heart-internet-domain-reference.html

Basically, Heart Internet allow you to set-up domain references for any domain you want, without you actually having the domain. That obviously allows for hosting to be set-up when the domain is with another registrar.

However, they don't delete the domain reference when the domain drops or is transferred to another registrant. When this happens they give 7 days notice to the person with the domain reference to delete the hosting and move it.

I have just changed a TAG to them for a domain and tried to transfer the domain in to be told I need to wait 7 days for the domain reference to be deleted by another user.

In this 7 day period, the other user has full control of the domain. This means that that user can do TAG changes, admin changes or run a website on the domain for that period of time. So, they can do what they want with the domain and could transfer it to themselves.

As a test, I checked for domain references for bbc.co.uk and google.co.uk. They both exist in someone's account, so in the very unlikely event of either moving to Heart, then someone else could run their websites for a week or just steal them!!

I have contacted customer services to be told that this is just the way it is. I've highlighted the potential problems in working like this, but they don't seem to care too much.

I think I'll be moving very very soon!!!!

 

[retired_member36]

Had the exact same problem in the past, i give up with heart now. They USED to be one of the best around....

 

[cm1975]

I've been told they are the UK's #1 Hosting Reseller and it's the only way it can work at such a big company.

There is a certain amount of arrogance in not even acknowledging that it is a problem, but it's difficult to convince them otherwise!

 

[Skinner]

Why are you even using heart / host europe / 123-reg / domain monster ? The Looneys have taken over the asylum.

 

[cm1975]

Why are you even using heart / host europe / 123-reg / domain monster ? The Looneys have taken over the asylum.

I'd always considered Heart to be a cut above the rest in that group. Since I had no great concerns about them, then there was no need for the hassle to move hundreds of domains, even if the costs were going up. However, when you find one vulernability and they deny it's even an issue or flaw, then you have to wonder what else might be lurking in the background.

When a company says they are too big to do it any other way when faced with a problem, you know it's time to move on. Unfortunately, as they get bigger, it just becomes more of a problem.

 

[DaveLeeds]

I've had the same problem with their domain references' in the past I've just explained to them in my ticket that it's clear the previous owner has no right to the domain, forwarded them Nom's certificate to show that I'm the new owner - even though they can see this for themselves on whois and my details match with my HI account. Although I have had some snotty gits occasionally ask for proof of address I nthe way of a scanned driving licence or utility bill. For this I just explain that the domains are registered at at po box business and I don't have such things for that address. They then usually back down and cancel the reference stating that next time I will have to wait the 7 days for the previous owner to respond, but I go through the whole thing again and again. You just have to catch someone there who has had a good day or got their leg over the previous night.
With regards to the references being created for google and the bbc - HI do say on their reference section that 'un-associated domain references will be deleted after 24 hours.

 

[cm1975]

With regards to the references being created for google and the bbc - HI do say on their reference section that 'un-associated domain references will be deleted after 24 hours.

That may be true, but all you have to do is add a hosting account and then they won't touch it. It doesn't have to be a live hosting account.

Whilst you can't add domain references for .UK domains yet, I imagine you will be able to do so very soon. If someone was being very mischievous, then they could create references (and hosting packages) for every .UK domain they see a corresponding .co.uk domain with Heart.

 

[DaveLeeds]

If someone was being very mischievous, then they could create references (and hosting packages) for every .UK domain they see a corresponding .co.uk domain with Heart.

Then the subsequent repercussion will be just the kick up the proverbial that Heart needs.

 

[dragon]

But you can't change registrant details when a domain reference happens to be in someone elses account? So ultimately they can't gain control of the domain. Yes its a PITA though.

 

[Ricochets]

Hi guys,

It sounds like we need to review this system if it's working against you on a day-to-day basis. If you want to discuss or have any suggestions, drop me a mail on [email protected].

 

[Ricochets]

Thanks Invincible, I was sure I'd made some posts on this account - I probably have another one knocking around somewhere, forgotten about!

I've been having a think, and there are a few things that I'm going to look at doing:

Housecleaning:

- Regularly remove unused references with no hosting.
- Remove references when resellers remove hosting packages.
- Audit old/unused packages (e.g. packages where the domain has dropped off the WHOIS or no DNS has been served for 6 months).

Communications:

- Automate the reference removal mechanism. In some cases there is a very good reason for us not to move a domain between accounts or delete hosting (disputes between designers/customers etc). We can't always act.

Because of disputes, we have to be careful. If a 'customer' sets up an account with details that match the WHOIS of a disputed domain, we don't want to delete an existing reference (and site) without being absolutely sure. We do have a limitation in that domains cannot exist in a customer account separate from its associated hosting. That is something I'm hoping to improve, but it wouldn't be short term.

I don't think we can solve this issue entirely, but we can definitely make it easier and quicker to work through. It's also complicated slightly because we're Reseller-centric, so in many cases our customers are unaware that they have hosted with us previously (or in some cases, may be migrating from us to us).

 

[Skinner]

Welcome Ricochets, hopefully all may not be lost for Heard since it were gobbled up by the shysters at Host Europe.

I'll certainly be watching closely

As a suggestion, I believe when a domain name tag is changed or a domain is deleted, a notice is sent to the registrar, a simple action would be, watch for these notices, and remove said domain references. I suspect this will sort many problems.

 

[Ricochets]

.uks have always been a bit of a pain in this respect (push rather than pull). The problem here is that a reference is tied to its associated hosting. You can't delete a reference without also deleting the hosting.

A scenario where this might be an issue (not as entirely uncommon as you might think, note: this is for tag changes only. It would probably be fine for deleted domains - unless a customer allowed their Heart hosted domain to expire, kept the hosting up, re-registered the domain with another provider, then transferred it in to us. But we can probably call that an edge case!):

-Domain owner has hosting with Reseller A, domain is held externally with.... Godaddy.
-Domain owner wants to move domain name to Reseller B.
-Domain owner changes tag to transfer to Reseller B. If we remove the reference automatically upon tag change, we remove their active hosting with Reseller A.

Possibly we could perform a check on existing package/reference when the tag is changed to HEARTINTERNET to see if they meet criteria for removal (old, unused) and then, when a request to transfer into an account is performed, we move the old reference out of the way to allow for the transfer to take place. Hmm, will discuss with dev.