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Like for Like the only way for Nominet

Discussion in '.UK Domain Name Consultations' started by julian, Oct 4, 2013.

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  1. Stephen United Kingdom

    Stephen Well-Known Member

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    different answer than .co.uk should get .uk?

    Yes agree, it would depend on how you framed the question and what information you gave but disagree you would get a different answer than .co.uk should get .uk when providing all cases.

    Nominet tried in version 1 to paint a picture whereby everyone would be able to register any .uk they wanted for £20 and the appeal of that, without any downside explanation would have been a great vote winner, if it was done as a public vote. It is so important to provide all the information.

    Hotmail under the current rules would go to the .org.uk owner but it is the wider losses that effect more people and hundreds of thousands of businesses.

    I have not seen any list of tourist attractions and charities that would still not be able to use there .org.uk effectively as now and would suffer because they have not got the .uk (as they don't own the .co.uk) that would put it anywhere an equal footing with those .co.uk owners that would loose out.

    If the .co.uk owner has cyber squatting on an .org.uk there are remedies available now to obtain the .co.uk and hence the .uk.

    There is another group that could show rights to .uk and that is Schools with .sch.uk but I think they should be kept in there own tld as it is easier to police and monitor content with their own extension.
     
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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    articles.co.uk
     
  3. anthony United Kingdom

    anthony Well-Known Member

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    It is simple to understand that had the .co.uk, .org.uk & .me.uk never existed, that it is patently clear that the oldest current registrant of those would almost certainly have gone straight for the .uk anyway. Those who argue that businesses somehow have greater rights than all others, or that somehow the .co.uk has a special right, are failing to argue their points even handedly.

    It's a shame you will lose area.co.uk (which i doubt wasn't picked up for pocket money, as it was caught by Dean I recall) or marzipan.co.uk (which was originally registered to M&S since 1999 I recall too), etc , etc under the current proposals, but you almost certainly would never have got either of them anyway.

    As for bias, I have none Edwin, I only have one .org.uk, which I have used for all my email accounts for over 10 years.
     
  4. Stephen United Kingdom

    Stephen Well-Known Member

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    history rewritten?

    I don't see how Nominet can rewrite history with the oldest UK domain registration,
    as if that is the case anybody who can prove they registered a domain a long time ago
    and then sold it (might not have sold it if they knew .uk was coming and being retrospectively allocated)
    or let it expire, should be given the chance to have the .uk they wold have registered,
    as if history is going to be rewritten maybe it should be done properly?

    Rather than the fudged solution Nominet have come up with.

    Also there would be a lot of businesses had they known they would not end up with the prime UK tld by using .co.uk
    would surely have developed with another domain name or extension.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  5. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    Agree. Note that I did not argue for .co.uk wins (though I have put in my 2p's worth more times than I can count into debates about the specifics of how such a .co.uk wins scenario MIGHT operate - you don't have to argue for something in order to have an opinion about it)
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  6. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    Nominet didn't pull "oldest continuous registration wins" out of thin air - it was the approach adopted by South Korea, Colombia, Mexico, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Uruguay, Guatemala and Peru in their own 3LD->2LD transitions (for completeness: China, Japan, the Philippines and Uganda went with "commercial registration wins")

    In NONE of the above cases was any attempt made to "retrace ownership" beyond the current owner of the qualifying domain name - presumably because of the insane can of worms such an attempt would open. So why impose on Nominet an unworkable process that is significantly more complicated and fraught with peril than any other CCTLD registry has undertaken?

    BTW isn't this about the two dozenth time we're having the exact same debate (.co.uk vs oldest registrant)? Given that it's in Nominet's hands now, not sure what (if anything) it's accomplishing...
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  7. anthony United Kingdom

    anthony Well-Known Member

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    That's not the point I was trying to make, I meant oldest of the current registrants!
     
  8. Stephen United Kingdom

    Stephen Well-Known Member

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    rewriting history

    Yes I know, sorry I was not trying to infer you were.
    I was trying to make the point for anybody advocating rewriting history as the basis of being fair,
    they should consider changing the process so it becomes truly fair as if .uk was there from the beginning.

    It is not until you go to the extreme of an argument or strand of logic do you realize that what is suggested 'oldest first' is only a compromise on rewriting history and it should not be attempted in the first place, as it cannot possibly done properly and doesn't really offer a fair solution in my opinion.

    I prefer to look at the current situation of a mature UK namespace, which is the 4th largest in the world and look at what the namespace will look like after each possible solution.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  9. Retired_Member38

    Retired_Member38 Banned

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    "I was trying to make the point for anybody advocating rewriting history as the basis of being fair, they should consider changing the process so it becomes truly fair as if .uk was there from the beginning."

    How could you possibly do that? There could be multiple people legitimately for any single domain name saying "Had I known x, I would/wouldn't have done y"
     
  10. Stephen United Kingdom

    Stephen Well-Known Member

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    fundamental basis

    Exactly my point, it could not be done.

    It all comes from the earlier post about rewriting history;

    That is the fundamental basis for making 'oldest registrant' entitled to .uk and I don't believe you can rewrite history.
     
  11. Retired_Member39

    Retired_Member39 Retired Member

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    Not meaning to be funny or have a go just interested. Would you gain from the aged domain proposal or the pairing proposal?.
     
  12. Retired_Member38

    Retired_Member38 Banned

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    I'll gain from any proposal that doesn't pair the domains indefinitely. Pairing them would definitely be the worst of the available/realistic options from my personal point of view.

    Otherwise I'm going to win some and lose some no matter how they do it so I'm not overly worried, as long as they do it.
     
  13. Retired_Member39

    Retired_Member39 Retired Member

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    Ok thanks for sharing. Tbh im getting splinters from sitting on the fence, but im probably about %55 in favour of .uk going ahead as long as it doesn't harm the majority of business's in the long term. 3 key points for me

    1) .uk will harm business in 2014 but what about 2015-2020 and beyond?
    2) killing the roots of the .uk domain uncertainty for good?
    3) if nominet were so greedy to the core, why would they donate so much money to charity?, wouldnt a slice of that donation been included in bonuses etc?
     
  14. anthony United Kingdom

    anthony Well-Known Member

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    Whenever the subject is tabled regarding the Nominet board being tempted to award themselves bonuses, this advert comes to mind:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc8vxx6J5Xw

    I think we should call it 'The Haribo Effect!'
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
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