Nominet announces new policy consultation for expiring .UK domains

[Derek]

I think if you want to dip your snout in the trough of free money then some level of scrutiny or critique of your candidacy needs to be expected.

 

[lazarus]

I think if you want to dip your snout in the trough of free money then some level of scrutiny or critique of your candidacy needs to be expected.

I get the sentiment of your analogy but I disagree in this case. Susannah has talked more sense in the past few weeks then some NED's have done, full stop. NED candidates have come on here spouting the usual, and you never see them again after they get elected.

Susannah does not need a webinar to be "scrutinised" she has much more of an audience on this forum. Ask her a question and I am sure you will get an answer. I don't really think she needs to "perform" in a live Q/A to gain votes either, she already has the backing of the community.

 

[Siusaidh]

I have the backing of *some* people. I don't have the backing of others. And that's fine. I think this thread has got a bit serious. I think David was actually being almost light touch and discreet, **and at least he's here**. None of this is likely to be big deal. This thread is about far more important things, concerning a critical point in the domain system in the UK. Greg Findlay's post was funny though. We need to lighten up and try to go easy on each other, but be ruthlessly analytical about the how to build a system that works, and counters cheats, and operates with integrity. Goodnight!

 

[Siusaidh]

I think if you want to dip your snout in the trough of free money then some level of scrutiny or critique of your candidacy needs to be expected.

I expect it, but I'm not a dancing monkey. The Q&A is optional. And I will answer all the questions anyway... thoughtfully. If that loses votes, that loses votes. It's my candidacy, and I'll stand the way I choose to. I do actually know what I'm doing, and I know my target electorate. It hinges on about 50 registrars. Again, Goodnight!

 

[mcrick]

Good grief. I'm an outsider candidate and I don't intend to have my valid candidacy 'ambushed' by Nominet insiders or their sock puppets. I find it fairly amazing that my candidacy is being critiqued publicly by one of Nominet's own Board of Directors. I suggest that's a bit inappropriate.

Factually you are both a Nominet member and a member of a secondary market orientated domain name forum. Three of the other candidates aren’t Nominet members, I believe.

Your decision to stand isn’t being criticised and is welcomed. In my opinion you seem to lack having done basic research about the one main issue you repeatedly reference and, when presented with discourse and evidence contrary to your views, you elect not to respond to it perhaps as you’re not used to being challenged to the extent you might have to consider rethinking your statements or opinions.

Why you think it would not be appropriate for any existing members of the Board, who may also be Nominet members with voting rights, and who may be concerned for the future stewardship of the company to critique your claims, which stem from one main issue that was address almost three years ago by Nominet staff, is something you haven’t actually explained. I myself can’t think why they shouldn’t comment if they so wanted, nor any other member who has the right to vote.

I will run in this election on MY agenda, not yours or anyone else's. Did you criticise one of the other candidates for not submitting a video? No.

I am disappointed that the other candidate you reference didn’t submit a video which I acknowledge is optional. You submitted one yet didn’t appear to feature in it, audibly or in vision. Perfectly acceptable but it will naturally draw questions about why you might have chosen not to appear.

In the same way, the rules clearly state that participation in Nominet's Q&A is optional. They offered that option. Even so, I told Nominet that if I was given 24 hrs notice of the questions, I could opt to appear. That was declined, which is fine by me. I also stated, in both my videos, that I will answer ALL the questions in the Q&A within 24 hours, and post them on my website for all to see, only I won't be limited to 2 minutes an answer. I am a reflective thoughtful person, who treats her candidacy seriously and wants to give serious answers. I choose not to "perform" in Nominet's show. That's my agenda. I'm not conforming. I'm serving notice.

You haven’t mention the “I wanted to guard against any negative questions, designed to marginalise me, because I may challenge the status quo...” part. Everyone attending the Q&A will receive the same questions. I am sad you feel unable to cope with that in a live environment, as I will be about anyone else who decided not to participate either.

In terms of transparency and willingness to put myself out there - well I am here, and I have sometimes said unpopular things, because I think independently. Other times people respect what I say. It will be the same in the Boardroom if or when we next meet. I call out bad practice. I praise good practice. But at least I am out here... where is everyone else?

Do you consider AcornDomains the only vehicle for canvassing members? I doubt it.

No, it's not because I'm transgender, which seems to be what you're alluding to and I wish you didn't. I've nursed people for 10 years. Nobody cares. My gender is a non-issue. In fact it's irrelevant. And anyway, many people here probably watched me mess up on Mastermind. I don't play the victim because I'm not a victim - I'm privileged. The point is I've wanted THAT not to be the issue. You're the only one who's alluded to it. I want the principles and the integrity to be the issue.

I presume you are intelligent enough to accept that people aren’t oblivious. Consequentially, and in my opinion, your choice never to mention it at all (I am certainly not talking about mentioning it all the time) might infer to some that you’re uncomfortable with yourself. Some people, quite often some of the British but others as well, are too polite to ask but don’t doubt that some don’t wonder, don’t discuss it and don’t have questions which are quite natural, normal and acceptable to have.

Transexuals I’ve spoken with both in the past, and those I meet every so often in day to day life, often seem quite comfortable to reference their gender in passing. That might have something to do with age and culture.

I accept your point that you might not want it to be an issue *for you* but by not featuring yourself in your own video In vision, by not attending the live Q&A session and by having never mentioned your gender once in passing here as far as I know, I feel you also aren’t contributing to it not becoming an issue in the minds of some when it’s conspicuous. Clearly your choice but you are now kindly asking to be elected to a Board of Directors of a medium sized company and some voters might like to know you’re self confident and comfortable in yourself *in person* by seeing how you actually come across *as the person you are*, not through published word only. Many of them won’t be AcornDomains members.

I haven’t noticed anyone on this forum suggesting you were a victim or played the victim but it’s good of you to mention that you aren’t one and don’t play one.

To be honest, I'm not having a go at you, as a person. I've never met you. I'd just prefer you to respect that I am running, in accordance with the options Nominet offered me, and I choose to make a statement by not being there at the Q&A. I'm demonstrating that I'm not Nominet's shill. Whether I win, I am not arrogant enough to say, but I think I'll do well.

Good for you. You might be a better candidate than at least some of the others. I certainly have no issue with your choice to stand but I take issue with some of what you’re said for the reasons already aforementioned.

One person has told me he felt you dominated discussion at the Birmingham consultation last year but he often likes to be the centre of attention so maybe you pipped him to the post that day. I wasn’t there to observe.

Are you a predominately a single issue candidate? Are you commercial with your domain name activities or is it only a hobby?

I get the sentiment of your analogy but I disagree in this case. Susannah has talked more sense in the past few weeks then some NED's have done, full stop. Time and time again, NED candidates have come on here spouting the usual, claiming to be "for the community" and you never see them again after they get elected.

Susannah does not need a webinar to be "scrutinised" she has much more of an audience on this forum. Ask her a question and I am sure you will get an answer. I don't really think she needs to "perform" in a live Q/A to gain votes either, she already has the backing of the community.

Do you not want to name those NED’s? Are they incommunicado? Have they not got functioning email? Have you not got functioning email in order to try to contact them? Some might have other things they’d prefer to be doing than taking the inordinate amount of time it requires to engage repeatedly on a forum.

 

[timter51]

I haven't got a fucking clue who's who or what's going on any more, not sure I ever did. When is gravy train getting derailed?

 

[davedevelopment]

@mcrick I think you're adding value to these discussions with your knowledge of nominet and I myself and in sure a few others appreciate it. However, I think it would be better for everyone if you kept your condescension, philosophy and pompousness to yourself.

 

[Lovekraft]

Yet another important thread completely derailed by David Thornton. He has the cheek to criticise Susannah for not having appeared in a video (full of underlying attempts at insults) yet he hides behind yet another fake username and doesn't have the guts to admit who he is, even though we can all tell a mile off.

 

[Lovekraft]

I haven't got a fucking clue who's who or what's going on any more, not sure I ever did. When is gravy train getting derailed?

No set date, they touched on timelines in the webinar but were unable to give anything specific. Consultation in August, about another month to consider the options and however much time will be needed to implement them.

 

[Murray]

However, I think it would be better for everyone if you kept your condescension, philosophy and pompousness to yourself.

It went beyond that, it was actually very nasty

"perhaps as you’re not used to being challenged"
"you’re uncomfortable with yourself."
"you're unable to cope"
"you dominated discussion in birmingham"
"because you didn't make an issue of your gender you clearly have an issue with it" (paraphrasing)

etc

These things aren't said by chance they're meant to unnerve, cause self-doubt and anxiety

I can't say it's personal because sadly he seems to do it to everyone

 

[webber]

I presume you are intelligent enough to accept that people aren’t oblivious. Consequentially, and in my opinion, your choice never to mention it at all (I am certainly not talking about mentioning it all the time) might infer to some that you’re uncomfortable with yourself. Some people, quite often some of the British but others as well, are too polite to ask but don’t doubt that some don’t wonder, don’t discuss it and don’t have questions which are quite natural, normal and acceptable to have.

Transexuals I’ve spoken with both in the past, and those I meet every so often in day to day life, often seem quite comfortable to reference their gender in passing. That might have something to do with age and culture.

Who the fuck do you think you are!?
Fuck your iq and fuck your Britishness!
This is completely unrelated, unsolicited, and a personal matter; one could even find it offensive and discriminatory.
No, most normal people don't think about what you raised and really don't care.
You have a problem with Bulgarians, now transgenders... anyone that doesn't look like you I assume.
When is your next ukip party meeting?
Fuck you you twat!
* you can ban me from this forum, I don't care anymore

 

[WalkinDude]

I don't blame everyone who is cheating

It's like when toilet rolls started running out at the supermarket it forced you to buy some and hoard yourself even if you didn't want to partake

It's Nominets fault for nor enforcing the rules, albeit people are saying they can't enforce them but maybe they just have to go off it's obvious even if they haven't got hard evidence

Like when you have a David Thornton posting, you can't be sure 100%, but you know and can take appropriate action

Were this to be the central issue that of Nominet unwilling to enforce the rules vs Nominet unable to enforce the rules. Both paths surely lead to legal liability for Nominet and perhaps Nominet have realised this hence the rush to change the system.

I'm not a tag, only vaguely know how it all works and technical skills required.

Just saying based on this premise it's hard to see much difference between this and what happened to big tobacco. There was a problem, you were aware of it, you were responsible for the problem, it was doing damage, you sat on your hands, made huge profits whilst sitting on your hands, this denotes motive for sitting on you hands, in the future, everyone's going to sue you sort of thing.

As for the solution. Nominets reputation puts me off the idea Nominet should control an Auction and I'm against the current system where 10 people virtually in isolation get all the best drops [Nominets words not mine].

What is a caught domain name. I'm trying to imagine what would happen if when a person died their property instantly became free for any other party to claim and own on a first come first served basis.

For a pad in W1, we'd see people camping outside the property for weeks or months waiting for the owner to die.

For a few square feet of land with a shed on it in the outer Hebrides possibly not. How would you create a system that didn't force people to make unseemly, undignified efforts to stake their claim?

So step one is make people aware of this forthcoming opportunity. So perhaps nominee should provide drop lists for absolutely free to the UK public.

Next set up a means to declare interest.

Seems to me only fair way beyond that is a lottery. 100 people are interested in this particular domain name, by some independently proven random means, someone is a winner.

The domain will either be won by a domainer [highly likely], or a vaguely interested speculator who will sell the domain or auction it or hoard it, but system inherently creates barriers to hoarding dropped domain names.

If only one person declares an interest then that person has 100% chance of claiming the domain name.

Beyond this an aftermarket would develop so parties only interested in a quick flip would whack their domain straight onto an auction and winning parties with a genuine interest in the domain would keep and develop it. The winning party should be required to provide contact details so domain hawks can swoop in offering loads of dosh for the domain prior to it say going on auction which is better than Nominet making huge sums keeping all the auction proceeds to themselves.

The system should not allow you to auto claim all dropping domains. Nominet could earn a few quid by charging you extra if you want to claim more than say 5 domains per month covering the professional end of domaining.

Nominet shouldn't be operating like the tech giants and profiting from access to data along with earning from registration fees. The data, droplists, metrics data for any given domain name should be freely available.

Domain hoarding [guilty as charged], leads to only one winner and that's the big tech companies. Domains that should be competing productively in the market are instead kept in vaults. Domaining as it is, treats domain names as if they were gold, a value asset rather than what they should be which is a value-productive asset.

All the proposals put forward so far intend to continue encouraging domain hoarding.

Nominet Auction is a solution for those who have already made their millions in domaining your perfectly handing them the future of UK domaining. So right now the winners are Nominet and top dropcatchers. With a Nominet Auction the winners will remain Nominet and the top dropcatchers now using their millions to dominate the Nominet Auction.

Current system is why we are here discussing this.

Amendments to current system, well if you are ready to wager we won't be back griping and complaining about this new 'amended' dropcatching system then good luck to you.

Some have said the current system is now corrupted inherently and there is no need to disparage any individual dropcatchers who've had success. All the proposals are inherently corruptible and the pyramid would remain.

With a Nominet Auction the top domainers will simply collude/Cartel to outbid all incumbents for Premium domain names in a manner the FBI working with Mi5 wouldn't even be able to later prove. Over time incumbent bidders would just lose faith. We know this because that's exactly the allegations that are being made now regarding the existing system - collusion and cartels.

 

[Derek]

With a Nominet Auction the top domainers will simply collude/Cartel to outbid all incumbents for Premium domain names in a manner the FBI working with Mi5 wouldn't even be able to later prove. Over time incumbent bidders would just lose faith. We know this because that's exactly the allegations that are being made now regarding the existing system - collusion and cartels.

Why would there be any collusion with auctions? There wouldn't be any need for anyone to do It. There wouldn't be any benefit. Top domainers might often win the auctions but genuine end users will have a fair chance to participate. An end user directly bidding should always be able to outbid a domain investor who was going to sit on the domain for weeks/months/years trying to find an end user to sell it too.

 

[Murray]

I will be repeating myself but just to sum up my thoughts

Prices at Nominet auction wont be any lower than they are now when you buy privately or at independent auctions

You could argue they might go higher if this change attracts more international investors

There might be some end users on the ball and interested in the domain but will they be willing to pay the auction price?

It's rare to get an enquiry soon after the domain drops and it's even rarer they're willing to pay a serious amount, typically it's not for years someone offers you more than you would be able to get at trade price

The majority of Nom acutioned domains will still be sold to domainers - the idea this is going to benefit end users en masse is a total fallacy

For me it's more akin to the government wiping out independent businesses in a local community to replace them with their own franchise, but not replacing any of the jobs lost or providing any better service - most end users will deal directly with domainers still

^ On the topic of jobs, without all the small registrars to deal with maybe Nominet can streamline and fire some of their customer service staff too, then salary raises and bonuses to the board for such a beautiful job done hoorah

The change takes away an income from individuals and gives it to a large company; David from Nominet already scoffed at Domainlores reported sales since 2009

It takes away an industry that actually contributed something to real people and their lives to funnel that money into being meaningless numbers on Nominets balance sheet

Could Nominet punish cheats without proving they're cheating and be covered for that legally? I have no idea but that would be the best option instead of punishing everyone because they can't punish someone

 

[lazarus]

Has anything been proposed at this stage for the remaining domains that are considered non desirable? I would imagine that a lot of still desirable domains would fall into the category if the person making this decision has an un-trained eye.

 

[Murray]

Has anything been proposed at this stage for the remaining domains that are considered non desirable? I would imagine that a lot of still desirable domains would fall into the category if the person making this decision has an un-trained eye.

Maybe that's why they want t£10 prebids (othe than the £10), job done for them

 

[Derek]

Could Nominet punish cheats without proving they're cheating and be covered for that legally? I have no idea but that would be the best option instead of punishing everyone because they can't punish someone

How would you see this working on a practical level?

When the cheaters group themselves geographically, if they're in an English city you'd risk banning random people who are genuinely not linked to the cheaters. I'm sure plenty genuine account holders could drive to Hays house like they were threatening to, which means they're close enough to be suspected to be linked to him and banned alongside him.

It would be impossible to ban all the foreign accounts that appear to be linked without them immediately crying racism.

I think you are looking at it the wrong way around though. They're not punishing everyone, they're helping everyone by making it fair access for all.

If they start banning people for suspected cheating you'll just see cheating v2.0 anyway. The accounts will be in UK but spread around and there won't be the obvious footprints of certain types of surnames etc. The money involved is too large for people to just pack up and go home because Nominet tell them to stop cheating.

 

[Derek]

ext set up a means to declare interest.

Seems to me only fair way beyond that is a lottery. 100 people are interested in this particular domain name, by some independently proven random means, someone is a winner.

The domain will either be won by a domainer [highly likely], or a vaguely interested speculator who will sell the domain or auction it or hoard it, but system inherently creates barriers to hoarding dropped domain names.

If everyone involved is honest, then a lottery would be good.

How are you going to stop people having genuine people create accounts for them though? This method would be even worse then the current one imho. At least right now the cheating requires some tech skills rather than a race of who can acquire the most "no public link" people to set up accounts for them.

If we do a lottery I will personally control 100+ accounts by the time it launches, and I'm sure I won't be the only one.

 

[WalkinDude]

Why would there be any collusion with auctions? There wouldn't be any need for anyone to do It. There wouldn't be any benefit. Top domainers might often win the auctions but genuine end users will have a fair chance to participate. An end user directly bidding should always be able to outbid a domain investor who was going to sit on the domain for weeks/months/years trying to find an end user to sell it too.

Way I see it a bunch of top domainers who are all drinking buddies can easily say you get next months one and I'll have the one after that or which ones are you after this month? Not even suggesting any of this would be illegal. I don't know.

Supermarkets have been accused of collusion in the past on the basis of agreeing not to compete in certain ways.


Won't always work. Auctions aren't really penetrable directly I'm more talking about a pattern emerging where [for some reason], it still remains the top 10 or so domainers winning all the Prime domains. There are many roads to get there but my hunch is that is how it will end up.

So lets say Nominet launch this auction and by no means provable to be illegal the same half dozen people win all the Prime Auction bids?

I'd prefer a system that guarantees us we all within a decent half-chance of landing a Prime Dropped domain name. That would be nice.

For me if Joe or Joanna Bloggs browsing on the internet were to 'win' a Prime domain name via stumbling on the Nominet lottery system and make a few for themselves that I can see as a path to increasing the number of domainers, and the probability of domaining accelerating into the future.

I've never been impressed with the idea you need world-class programming skills or huge amounts of initial capital, and well-networked for sell-on opportunities, to become successful as and make a living out of it. Just seems slow and ponderous to me.

 

[Derek]

Way I see it a bunch of top domainers who are all drinking buddies can easily say you get next months one and I'll have the one after that or which ones are you after this month? Not even suggesting any of this would be illegal. I don't know.

Supermarkets have been accused of collusion in the past on the basis of agreeing not to compete in certain ways.

If you got a bunch of domainers they'd all be arguing over who gets what. When the auction prices got too high for one of the price fixing group they'd be out, then probably expose it. I can't see it working.

It would also only take 1 single domainer to refuse to take part and start bidding, then everyone else would have to.